The Game Changers

Ramla Ali: Fighting for change

• Sue Anstiss • Season 21 • Episode 6

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Ramla Ali: Fighting for Change

“I carried the hopes of a nation into the ring - but also the dreams of every young girl who’d been told no.”

Boxer, Olympian, model and UNICEF UK ambassador Ramla Ali shares her extraordinary journey from fleeing conflict in Somalia to making history in the boxing ring. The first Somali, male or female, to compete for a world title, Ramla’s story is one of resilience, representation and the relentless pursuit of change.

In this conversation with Sue Anstiss, Ramla reflects on a recent visit to the Dadaab refugee camp in Kenya where she witnessed both the devastating impact of aid cuts and the extraordinary hope of young women determined to build a better future. She speaks openly about her own family’s escape from Somalia, the courage of her parents and the sacrifices that shaped her life in the UK.

Ramla reveals how she discovered boxing almost by accident, keeping her training secret from her family until they came to embrace her achievements with pride. She discusses what it meant to walk into the Olympic arena carrying Somalia’s flag and the trail she’s blazed for others to follow. Ramla talks proudly of the power of Sisters Club, the organisation she founded to give women and girls safe access to sport.

From walking into a Boxercise class as a teenager to being the subject of an upcoming Hollywood film, Ramla has consistently challenged stereotypes and redefined what’s possible. Whether in the ring, in fashion, or in refugee camps, Ramla uses her platform to inspire change and to call for dignity, opportunity and equality for all.

This is the story of a fighter whose greatest victories extend far beyond sport.

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Ramla Ali is a UNICEF UK Ambassador. Join UNICEF UK and write to your MP today to prioritise children in the UK aid budget here.

Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.

Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers

Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media

A Fearless Women production

Ramla Ali:

When I posted that I was going to the Tokyo Olympics, like so many people messaged me to say, like, because of me, they've encouraged their kids to get into sport, and I think ultimately that's what I wanted. I wanted young children to dream big and to realise like they have so much potential and to sort of allow them the opportunity to think that they can do and be and achieve anything that they want to in life. And when I received those messages, I felt I felt like I did my job right.

Sue Anstiss:

Today's guest on The Game Changers is Ramla Ali, a British Somali boxer, Olympian, model, and UNICEF UK ambassador. From fleeing conflict in Somalia as a child to secretly learning boxing in East London, Ramla went on to become the first Somali, male or female, to compete for a world title. Ramla is an icon in her community and for millions of young women, many of whom's lives have been touched by her organization, the Sisters Club, which supports thousands of women annually with free sports and fitness activities for mental health and self-defence. Ramla uses her global platform not just to break barriers in sport but to fight for women, girls and refugee children everywhere. A new Hollywood film about Ramla's extraordinary life In The Shadows will be released next year.

Sue Anstiss:

So Ramla, you've just returned from visiting the Dadab refugee camp in Kenya. Can you describe a little of what that experience was like for you personally?

Ramla Ali:

This trip was like years in the making. And just being there and just seeing all these incredible people, I saw so much of myself in each and every person. And it was a truly like humbling experience. And it it just like made you value my life personally so much more. And it's, you know, made me so thankful to have the parents that I had who'd sacrificed so much to take us away from such a conflict zone that was Somalia, bring us to safety here in London and the UK. And just the whole experience is just, yeah, just to repeat again, just truly humbling. And um, yeah, I was just so honored to just be amongst all those incredible people that I met in Dadab.

Sue Anstiss:

And other specific moments that will stick with you long term and carry forever. I look on social media, you can see the amazing, you know, photos and and videos of you and the work you're doing and the people you're meeting. But are there particular moments you think that will really stick with you?

Ramla Ali:

In general, just to see how enthusiastic and so full of life everyone was, you know, from the outside looking in, like before I went, I didn't think that I would get to see that. I I had my own perceptions of what everyone would be like in the camp, and it was completely different. Everyone was just so happy to be alive and just happy to be there and just so full of life, and everybody had a dream and everybody had a goal, and that was truly just amazing to witness. And I think one particular story that really, really hit me was a young girl that I'd met, and it was in a program that is run by UNICEF called uh Young Mothers Program, I believe. So it's like young girls who through either forced child marriages, rape, had had kids uh from a young age, and this one particular girl was raped at the age of 14 and had a child. And I had the opportunity to sit down and talk with her, and she was telling me, you know, when she was a child, she had these hopes and dreams and aspirations of becoming a model, like a supermodel, because South Sudanese women are just stunning, they're like six foot whatever, legs up to here, and you know, she had this dream of becoming a supermodel, and she said when she had given birth, those dreams had gone out the window because she felt getting pregnant and having the child had ruined her body. And so as a result, she had a new dream of, you know, she now wanted to become a doctor to help young girls who are in similar positions to herself, and you know, she had like a like a plan like I'm gonna go to boarding school and I'm gonna leave my daughter with my mother, and you know, this is what I'm gonna do for myself and for my family. And just to see that hope in her face and just how full of life she was is just what I was talking about at the beginning. It's just yeah, it's just it was just so incredible to see, witness, and to hear.

Sue Anstiss:

Yeah, and that importance of hope, isn't it? What what role do you feel that UNICEF is playing on the ground to support those children and young people?

Ramla Ali:

I mean, they UNICEF is just truly incredible because they have so many amazing programs within these camps. As a result of this young mothers program, the girls are they're given, they're taught skills, so they're able to then use their skills to start businesses. These young girls, 10 of them together through learning how to do hair, do makeup, do nails, give facials, like started a salon within the dab, and that's what they're using to, you know, look after themselves and look after their families, and they say they get a great income. And there's this amazing sisterhood between all of them, because you know, I asked one of them, what would happen if hypothetically you made more money than the other nine girls? And she said, Well, no, we're we're we're a team, we're a family. What I make at the end of the day, I make sure we share between the ten of us because if I eat, everyone gets to eat, and it's not fair if I'm the only person that eats, and that really like just hit me, and just it kind of reminded me of the message of my own charity Sisters Club in that all the women within the Sisters Club community are sisters, and yeah, it was incredible to hear that.

Sue Anstiss:

Very powerful one. You mentioned then the bravery of your parents. So can you tell us a little bit more of your story and how you ended up as a refugee and coming to the UK?

Ramla Ali:

Yeah, uh, I was born during the Civil War of Somalia. My brother died as a result of a sh um being struck by a stray grenade, and my parents made the uh incredible decision of you know taking us from danger, and my mum didn't want what had happened to her eldest to happen to the rest of us. So we fled Somalia, we um we hid in a truck basically off the coast of Somalia, Kismayo, we hid in a cave for a bit and waited for a boat. People were like scrambling to get on because everybody was fleeing uh danger. So we um got from Kismayo to uh Mombasa, where we had some relatives who were there, and um my mum was telling me how you know when we were in Mombasa, she'd queue up for aid. It's so important to have that. And so she was queuing up and you know, making sure like you know, we had food in our bellies and you know, we had a warm place to stay. And uh yeah, so from Kenya we we sought asylum in the UK as war refugees. And as a result, we all my mum instilled in us the uh importance of education, and me and all my siblings got degrees, and we were literally fleeing war. We were literally fleeing, you know, the dangers of war, like my brother was killed, and like we'd left everything behind. I don't have a single, well, my mum doesn't have a single picture of us in Somalia, and it's yeah, she finds it quite hard because all the memories are there. I just came back from a trip actually uh from in Somalia. Uh I stayed there 10 days, posted that refugee camp, and I got to see the house that I was born in. And it's like it changed so much, it's all like boarded up. And yeah, it's it was it was it was it was great to see.

Sue Anstiss:

But you're right, people don't leave, people don't leave their homes and travel across the world without the yeah, without the rationale to do so. You don't just up and leave. UNICEF has warned that along with dying from preventable diseases, millions more children could be out of school by 2026 because of the recent aid cuts, and the UK government took the decision to cut the aid budget by 40% by 2027. So, from your visit and experiences and your work with UNICEF UK, what difference do you think that funding, the aid funding or the lack of aid funding will be making to children's lives?

Ramla Ali:

Like huge. Um so the day that I was in the uh I got to meet the young mothers, one of the young mothers had collapsed, and that was a result of severe dehydration. So, you know, aid is currently being cut, yes, and more of it will be cut by 2027, I believe. But um the water allowance per person per householder has been cut by half. And she was there, we were just talking, and she just collapsed because Kenya's extremely hot, and I'm sure they should be drinking double why I'm drinking here in cold London, but they're not because of the aid cuts. And it's horrible to think the people that will be affected the most with these cuts are young children, they don't deserve it, they've done nothing wrong. Yeah, and that's yeah, just horrible to think about. But it wasn't even just the one girl. I was in Dadab for two, two full days, and within two full days, three young girls had collapsed from severe dehydration.

Sue Anstiss:

And what would you want listeners to take away in terms of taking action? What can we do from here, both to learn more about it, but also in terms of encouraging the government or MPs to support more?

Ramla Ali:

Exactly. Write to your local MPs and you know, urge them to reconsider what they're doing. It's so heartbreaking to just something that's that should be like a basic human right that they're not even being afforded that opportunity. It's heartbreaking. But yeah, just write to your local MPs and urge them to reconsider these decisions.

Sue Anstiss:

And I'll share some links in the show notes as well to show the direction and actions people can take too. Um and what role do you think sport can play in giving hope and opportunities to refugee children?

Ramla Ali:

So when I was in the camp, I was fortunate enough to go and see one of, I believe it's a UNICEF, so UNICEF support this program called FilmAid, and it's getting uh young refugee children, kids uh into film and TV and giving them the basic skills to learn how to do photography, videography, directing, producing, all of that. Um I watched this film that they'd made on the impact of climate change on them, and it was, you know, showing that football, how it's it's affecting them together with the aid cuts. So a lot of the, you know, the kids were collapsing when they were playing football because they couldn't drink enough water, and the the, you know, sometimes it would they would have severe rain and their pitches would get flooded and so they can no longer play. But, you know, having something like sport to just take your mind off everything, I feel like is so important to young kids. It teaches them a lot about health, looking after themselves, and it's doing so in a fun way.

Sue Anstiss:

And I think it's it you talk about human rights and actually the the right to just play as a child and have joy and all that we know sport brings in terms of community and belonging and all those things. That's so, so important, isn't it? Brotherhood, sisterhood, you lose all of that. And obviously, sports played a really key part in your role too, and and your the work that you're doing. But you when you arrived in the UK as a refugee, you found boxing. So I mean, it almost feels bizarre to to say that and to think that. But how did that happen? How did that come about?

Ramla Ali:

Uh honestly, I I I wish I could give like this, like, oh yeah, so my dad used to box. And so I walked no, it honestly it wasn't that. I was just, I used to get bullied in school for being overweight, and one day my sister took me to the gym, and I remember, so you know, back then we didn't have Instagram and you know, or TikTok, and you couldn't see like workouts to do. And I remember feeling so out of place and so uncomfortable in this gym that was just full of men. Um, so I just started walking around the gym and I noticed a boxer size class, and I walked in and I fell in love with it. And from that, I had researched local boxing gyms in the area, and it the rest is history, but it it literally could have been any sport. It wasn't like I have to learn boxing, like I could have walked into a taekwondo class and I would have been a taekwondo athlete. So it was just the first sport that you know I found and I just fell in love with it.

Sue Anstiss:

And what was it about boxing that you so loved, especially as you say, it's such a male-dominated sport too? Such a male-dominated sport. But I think back then the thing that I loved the most is like I said, I felt I didn't know what I was doing in the in in a normal gym because we didn't have these apps, and I liked the idea of someone telling me what to do and I didn't have to think for myself. And at the same time, you know, I was getting healthy and I was looking after myself, and similar to what you were saying about sport in that you create this, you create friendships and you create bonds with other people, and it wasn't something that I really had in school because I was getting bullied, so I found this like community of friends within the boxing gym, and it yeah, it's yeah, yeah. And your family didn't know, we didn't let your family know about it, didn't really approve at the beginning. So, what was the turning point in that relationship with your parents when they shifted and then almost realized it was something that they could be really proud of? I love there's a story you shared recently on on Instagram about your mum opposed where you said your mum now asks you about training and if you're dieting before uh a competition so she can feed you and and cook for you.

Ramla Ali:

Somalie food is the best, it's amazing, but it's not the healthiest, unfortunately. Um, I think the turning point for my mum was when I told her that I wanted to compete for Somalia, and also like I have this incredible uncle who is like super team Rambler, and it's my mum's old older brother, and you know, he sort of told her the positive impact that I would be having amongst young Somali uh children and encouraging them to get healthier themselves, like if they could see me on the big stage, it would encourage them to like get fit, get healthy, because you know, we have a lot of diabetes and high blood pressures and things like that within the Somali community, and uh he was just telling my mum like what a positive thing it is, what I'm doing. And I think that's when she came around, and now, yeah, she's like my biggest fan, and she asks me, Can I feed you? Can you eat cake? And uh, you know, thinking about that and thinking about that many years ago, I I would have never have envis envisaged me and my mum having these types of conversations in the future.

Sue Anstiss:

And did you imagine in those early days of discovering boxing that it might take you to the Olympics, to a world title fight? What how how far in were you in terms of training and loving the sport when that came across your radar? Or you realised it was something you could do?

Ramla Ali:

I never realized that I could make boxing into a career. I mean, even now it's not really a career, let's be honest. Women don't get paid nearly enough as men. But I think it was when I met my husband and he told me, look, you can do this, is when I truly started to started to believe in myself. I I feel like I just needed to hear it from someone, and you know, it was never gonna be my parents, let's be honest. And it was kind of him as well that brought my mum around, but yeah, it was it was probably the belief that he had in me that made me feel that made me believe in myself.

Sue Anstiss:

And you went on to become the first Somali, male or female, to compete for a world title in boxing. So what did that milestone then mean for you, your family, your your mum's brother, your uncle, a super Ramla fan?

Ramla Ali:

I think I think the biggest milestone before that was qualifying and going to the Tokyo Olympics because no athlete outside of run like literally just running uh has for Somalia has ever done any other sports or can be. Wow, yeah, nothing. Um, so it was like something so different, and now we have all these because well, I don't want to say because of me, I'm sure they were doing it themselves, but like I want to take a little bit of credit, but because of me, let's say, you know, we now have Taekwondo athletes. We have there's a guy that contacted me the other day who's a swimmer and he wants to do it for Somalia, and it is it's so incredible incredible to think that I've paved the way for all these amazing athletes to like emerge from the country or want to represent Somalia. And um when, you know, when I posted that I was going to the Tokyo Olympics, the amount of messages that I'd received, and even when I was like holding the flag at the opening ceremony, like so many people messaged me to say like what an inspiration I am, and that, you know, because of me, they're they've encouraged their kids to get into sport, and I think ultimately that's what I wanted. I wanted young children to dream big and to realise like they have so much potential and to sort of allow them the opportunity to think that they can do and be and achieve anything that they want to in life. And when I received those messages, I felt I felt like my I did my job right.

Sue Anstiss:

Absolutely. And you've also modelled for some of the biggest fashion houses. So how do you balance that world of high-end fashion with the sort of grit and the brutality of boxing? They seem like they're quite contradictory,

Ramla Ali:

They're very contradictory. But you know what? I always say, if you you when you book me, you know what you're getting. I'm a boxer, right? So you know I might turn up with a black eye, or it could happen. Like that comes with the territory. And I've been fortunate enough, and I've worked with so many brands that have just never minded me turning up with a black eye, or stitches, or not being able to do exactly what they wanted in a campaign because I've got a shoulder injury, or I've got this and that, and uh yeah, I've just been so lucky uh to have worked with all these like incredible brands that have been so accommodating to me as a boxer.

Sue Anstiss:

Yeah, you as you say, you as the whole person, isn't it? You've you've also been on the front cover of Vogue, Mary Claire, you were selected as Time Woman of the Year. So, what do those accolades mean to you in comparison to you know the Olympic Games and those sporting accolades? Do they feel different?

Ramla Ali:

I mean, they feel like super different, but then it all like meshes into one. I feel like, you know, I'm on the cover of British Vogue because I've achieved all these things and I'm Time Woman of the Year because I'm doing so much for Sisters Club, or I've I've I've done this and I've done that, and it's it's two very different worlds, but I feel like they're merging together like perfectly, and I'm just so blessed to be a part of both worlds because the people that I meet in one, I wouldn't necessarily meet the other in that in that world, and it's so nice that I can, you know, meet all these incredible people, and yeah, I'm I'm I'm truly honoured to be a part of both.

Sue Anstiss:

And you mentioned then the Sisters Club and being recognized for all you've created, they're incredible initiatives. So can you tell us that that might not know much about it, but a little more about it and the impact it's having on the women that are involved?

Ramla Ali:

Yeah. Uh I Sisters Club was birthed in 2018 and it started off as me volunteering an hour of my time a week to teach women how to box. Bearing in mind at this point in my life, I was working three jobs to fund my boxing career because, you know, as I mentioned, women don't get paid enough. And so I decided I wanted to teach women to box. And, you know, the type of women that I was targeting were like women that found it really hard to gain access to sports. So, like the religious minorities, the ethnic minorities, and the women that came from low-income families, and over time as well, a lot of women that had suffered from domestic violence were like gravitating towards the class. And what initially turned into like a six-month passion project has grown uh incredibly over the years. So now we have four boxing classes a week in London and one in New York. We have a run club, we have a basketball club, and we have a football club, and then we also have a run club in Florida as well. And it's just growing and it's allowing like these vulnerable groups of women to feel empowered to create bonds of sisterhood with other club members. And one actually success story, not success, but a story to celebrate or yeah. Story to celebrate is uh one of the girls who was getting beaten up so badly by her husband who found the courage to leave him and now coaches for Sisters Club. Oh wow. One of the best stories to have come from Sisters Club. So the the the mission that I had in the beginning, uh hearing that just made made me so glad that I started it in the first place.

Sue Anstiss:

Yeah, so proud. That's like the full full circle there, isn't it? Uh giving back, yeah, yeah. And as well as being a boxer and a model and the UNICEF UK ambassador, you're now going to be the subject of a Hollywood film to be released next year. So in the shadows. Yeah. I just wonder how you feel. What does it feel like to know your life is going to be portrayed on the big screen?

Ramla Ali:

I remember when we first started filming last year, the production designer came up to me and said, So how does it feel like you're you're still young and you're still an active athlete and yet a film is being made about you? Whereas people are towards the end of their careers or like they're, you know, 60, 70 and they're not having anything made about them. How do you feel? And I said, you know what? It's incredible because yes, it's a sports story about me and boxing, but more than anything, it's a positive migrant story, and and it's also like a positive interracial love story as well between myself and my husband. And yeah, I can't, I I just can't believe like a some people want to wanted to have made a film about me, and like people are gonna want to watch it. It's it's like ah it's so bizarre, but um, but yeah, again, truly humbling and I'm so honoured.

Sue Anstiss:

You're clearly someone who's challenged stereotypes. So what what do you hope the your activity will enable young girls and refugees everywhere to know about the potential for them to follow their own path? Because that really feels as if that's the kind of message you're giving.

Ramla Ali:

Yes. There was actually a group of young girls that I met in the dab. Uh, we sat down and we were talking about how just I just wanted to get to know them basically. And one of the girls asked me, How did you sort of change people's perceptions of, you know, uh a Somali girl getting into boxing because I personally want to be a psychologist and I'm being told that I shouldn't be going to school because I should be learning to stay at home and cook and be a housewife, but that's not what I want to do, and just her asking me that has already allowed my story to change the minds of other people, and it's you know, because of me, she's she's wanting to be a psychologist, and uh my story is is showing her that she can do and she can be anything that she wants to be, and it's yeah, it's just quite nice to to know about.

Sue Anstiss:

And what's next for you now? So in sport, again when you've got another fight coming up on fashion and your humanitarian work, you know, in each of those areas, what's what's coming up?

Ramla Ali:

So the only thing that I know is coming up is that our next beacon beating in December, fingers crossed, or God willing, I always say that because my mum has always taught me to say that because of my brother passing away when we were in Somalia. Life is never certain, and that's why I don't like like to plan things too far ahead. So I'm just gonna start training for that. What's it called?

Sue Anstiss:

You say a beacon, the name of the event you're preparing for?

Ramla Ali:

Just uh it would just be a fight in December. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, I just don't like to plan too far ahead. For that, I'm I'm gonna start training uh soon and just to get ready for that. But that's the only thing I have planned coming up. Everything else is just as and when it comes, basically.

Sue Anstiss:

I like that approach to life. Leave the space, create the vacuum, and who knows what will come into it.

Ramla Ali:

Exactly. Um, I love to live spontaneously as well. A friend of mine just messaged me, she said, Hey, do you want to come to Turkey? And I was this close to saying yeah. But then I was just, I was like, Oh, honestly, I'm so tired. I travelled so much last week, just that I just want to just rest for a bit. But yeah, I just I just love to live in the moment. I've actually deleted all my social media uh since January of 2024 because I just want to live in the moment. I don't want to be uh tired to my phone uh and scrolling away and just wasting life away. I just want to be in the present and be surrounded by people that I love and just yeah.

Sue Anstiss:

That's such a powerful thing to do, isn't it? And such a powerful message as well to be to live for the now and the moment. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. And and just finally, if you could deliver one message to governments and people in general about children and adults in refugee camps, what what would you say? What would be your kind of closing message there?

Ramla Ali:

I think the closing message is that everyone is a human being, so treat everyone as a human being. Yeah, short and sweet. There you go.

Sue Anstiss:

I think we might all be joining Super Team Ramla after that interview. If you'd like to hear from other Trailblazers in sport, there are more than 200 episodes of The Game Changers to free to listen to on all podcast platforms or from our website at fearlesswomen.co.uk. Guests include elite athletes along with coaches, broadcasters, scientists, journalists and CEOs, all women who are changing the game in sport. As well as listening to all the episodes on the website, you can also find out more about the Women's Sport Collective, a free, inclusive community for all women working in. Sport. We now have over 14,000 members across the world, so please do come and join us. The whole of my book, Game On, The Unstoppable Rise of Women's Sport, is also free to listen to on the podcast. Every episode of series 13 is me reading a chapter of the book. Thank you to Sport England, who support the Game Changers with a National Lottery Award, and to Sam Walker at What Goes On Media, who does such a brilliant job as our executive producer. Thank you also to my brilliant colleague at Fearless Women, Kate Hannon. You can find the Game Changers on all podcast platforms, so follow us now and you won't miss out on future episodes. Do come and say hello on social media where you'll find me on LinkedIn and Instagram at Sue Anstis. The Game Changers.

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Sue Anstiss

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Sam Walker

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