The Game Changers

Mari Thomas-Welland: Engineering Support, Inspiring Confidence

• Sue Anstiss • Season 21 • Episode 2

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How does it feel when images of one of the world’s most famous athletes go viral… and she’s wearing your brand?

That’s the first thing we asked Mari Thomas-Welland on today’s episode of The Game Changers, after Serena Williams shared gym photos wearing the Maaree sports bra.

Mari is a sports engineer turned founder who has reimagined women’s performance wear using science rather than guesswork. It’s a brilliant conversation about innovation, body confidence and the importance of evidence-based design for women's bodies.

From early lab work at Loughborough University to a DIY prototype that led to her patented Overband® technology, Mari shares how understanding real breast movement was the key to creating a sports bra that truly supports comfort and control.

We explore the myths of bra sizing, the realities of being a female entrepreneur and how access to sports bras could transform teenage girls participation in sport and physical activity.

There are now over 250 episodes of The Game Changers, all free to listen on every podcast platform or via fearlesswomen.co.uk.

Next week’s guest: Emma Wilson, windsurfing sensation and current world number one.

Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.

Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers

Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media

A Fearless Women production

Mari Thomas-Welland:

And to think that we sent a man to the moon before the sports bra was invented. How insane is that.

Sue Anstiss:

Mari Thomas-Welland is a pioneering founder of MAAREE, the sports bra brand redefining women's performance wear. In this episode of The Game Changers, I talk to the sports engineer-turned entrepreneur about how she's combined her technical expertise with her own sporting experience. To design bras and sportswear that truly empower women to move with confidence. Mari's groundbreaking innovations are now trusted by women across the world, including international sports stars like Serena Williams and Lioness Millie Bright, cementing Mari's reputation as the go-to brand for support, comfort and performance. Mari, can I start with those incredible images of Serena Williams in your sports bra? How did it feel to wake up in the morning and see the internet full of her gym selfies showing off her six-pack in a MAAREE Sports bra?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

Oh my god, it was insane. It was one of those moments where you're only first down at a brand and people like, oh, who would you love to get in your in your in your products? And my aim was always like, oh, I would love if I could get my bras back on Serena. That would be amazing. Always thinking, that's probably a very far shot in the dark. You're probably not going to get there. But when that moment actually happened, I, oh my God, I was running around the house. I was telling everybody, I was putting in all my WhatsApp groups. It was so cool to see that they had reached her and she loves them. And I've had feedback from her team saying that they're incredible. So yeah, it was an unbelievable moment and one that's right up there.

Sue Anstiss:

It was all over my social media feed at the time and people sharing it and excited for you as well, and excited for the brand too. That's so sweet. Did it have an impact, a noticeable impact in terms of awareness and sales for you?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

Absolutely. So yeah, we had a lot of people, I had a lot of people reaching out to me saying that they saw the bra, uh, how amazing that was because you know Serena is beyond sport, even isn't she? She's she's so much bigger than than the sport that she's in. And so it was so incredible to see that. And I would know next time I would love it if we got a tag. Obviously, she's probably uh probably restricted to what she can post about with her deals and everything, but it would be so incredible if hopefully sometime in the future we could get a tag as well. That'd be fantastic. But we'll see. We'll see what happens.

Sue Anstiss:

And did you find out how she came across it, where she found it from her team? Have they told you how it came to be on her?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

So her team actually reached out to us. Strangely enough, like it was again one of those messages that comes in and you think, This can't be real. Like I didn't believe it at the start. And um, as soon as I read the message, and someone was like, Oh yeah, we'd love to get your bras on Serena, uh, and then get her to try them out because she's she struggles with this area. And so I was like, okay, I don't not sure if I this is a true message. So I did a lot of research and I was like, okay, is this right? Is this coming from the right email address and things like that? And then once I confirmed that that was right, I was like, okay, let's you can have whatever you want. Yeah, absolutely. So then I put a little package together for her, and again, only being 90% confident really that this is going to a legitimate source, and I wasn't being catfished or anything like that. So I still had no idea for a good few weeks that if they had actually been received by her or she likes them, or you can like that. Still no idea if it was true. And then when the image came out, I was like, oh my gosh, okay, it was true all along. This is amazing.

Sue Anstiss:

Well, it's purpless, isn't it? Because it's not just the fact that you got them to her and to try them, but then she liked them enough to be pictured in them. And there are many other brands, you know, that she's associated with that she could have been wearing. So she said it that's the kind of proof in that image.

Mari Thomas-Welland:

Absolutely. And the feed, and I've had feedback from her team with them showing messages from her saying how much she loves the bras and how much she's impressed by them. So even without the post, that would have been just such a heartwarming moment for me. Absolutely.

Sue Anstiss:

As a fellow Loughborough alumni, graduate, I love that that's where your entrepreneurial journey started. So can you take us back to what you realized the sports bra industry perhaps was failing women? And what sort of sparked your passion to fix that?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

I've always been a keen sportswoman. I played hockey all the way through school and to a pretty decent level. And so I always knew I wanted to do something in sports, but I was more interested on the product side of sports. So I did sports engineering at Loughborough, uh, which was an amazing course. I had so much fun on that course. And I was fortunate enough after to get a job in the department testing the performance of sports bras for other brands. And so there's only two places in the UK which has that kind of research and development center for sports bras. So Lefeba being one and Portsmouth being the other. So I thought this was an amazing opportunity that I got all of a sudden, and obviously one that I was interested in personally as well, because I could never find the perfect sports bra for myself. I never really questioned it up to that point. I was wearing two sports bras at a time, realized so many other women were as well. So I just suddenly felt kind of really interested to learn more about this subject. And so all the women who would kind of turn up for my trials were also really interested in finding their perfect sports bra because they couldn't find their right one. And a lot of these big brands used to come to us and say, Oh, we need to reduce, you know, downwards motion of uh by X percent in this bra. And he's like, Okay, great. But I can see from those results that your booze move in a figure of eight when you're running. And so just to concentrate on reducing downwards motion felt really short-sighted to me. And I used to tell them, why don't you put something over the top? Because if you can stop your booze coming up so much, then they won't come down so much. But this either kind of never made its way back up the food chain, or you know, they were looking for a marketing claim. But um, you know, it was a few a few years later, and this this um idea still never really left my mind. And it occurred to me, like if the big brands are coming to us to do their research, that must mean all the other brands are doing nothing. So there's no surprise really that there's such a big gap of knowledge in this industry, so that so many women can't find their right support because the market doesn't sound like that. It's catering for the women in it. So it kind of makes sense to me. Like, why actually can't I do something about this? Because I'm part of only two places in the UK that has all this knowledge. So why not me? I started asking myself, why not me instead of why me? And so yeah, that's kind of when I thought, right, I'm gonna do something about this. I went to a charity shop one day and I bought a belt of all things, and I adapted it to suit the shape of my body and attached it to a sports bra that I had in my wardrobe already. And so I went for a run. And even without all that fancy equipment, I could feel how much of a difference it made. The amount of bounce reduction I was getting in that bra with that new belt on top compared to when I didn't have that belt on, was so significant that I thought, okay, this idea's got something in it. So then, yeah, I went to kind of find some new suppliers to help me develop some prototypes. And yet, now we developed the only sports bras in the world with overbound technology.

Sue Anstiss:

And how did it feel? When you took it, it's obviously you had that idea, and then you and I love that story of the kind of DIY prototype with the elastic belt. But how did it feel? When you then ran and you that aha moment of this has actually worked, was that a surprise? Did you anticipate that would be the case from the stuff that you'd researched before?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

I mean, I could feel like I could feel there was there's definitely ways to improve the sports bra. And I just in my mind, I hadn't obviously put it into something physical yet. I just thought this idea's gotta work. Like, you know, when women are running and they feel like they've got too much bounce, they put their hands over the top of their chest. They don't support themselves by putting it underneath. And so I just thought, there's something that's gotta replace the hands there. You know, when I did go out, I thought maybe there's something I've missed, maybe I've not attached this belt correctly to the bra to, you know, really make it perform like I think I did. But yeah, when I went for a run, I I felt that relief. It was just insane. I for the first time ever, I thought, oh my god, this is the best bra I've ever owned at this point.

Sue Anstiss:

How funny is that? That is so true, isn't it? That you see girls running or you see people running, you just hold your breath on top, wouldn't you? You wouldn't hold you wouldn't cut yourself underneath. That is so true. Yeah. And I I you've alluded there to why you think the big brands hadn't researched that. And you you as an organization were researched that. But but it is remarkable, isn't it? I think it was like the 1970s, when it was sports bras kind of first started. And so it's like 50 years of research and talking about and the growth in the marketplace. It seems weird almost that that hadn't been explored before.

Mari Thomas-Welland:

Yeah, and to think that, you know, we sent a man to the moon before the sports bra was invented. How insane is that?

Sue Anstiss:

It's mad, isn't it? We I saw a question documentary the day from the from the 70s, actually, and there were people out running and jogging. I thought, well, that's just mad, isn't it? You could see these women running in regular bras and thinking that it doesn't really feel that long ago that you know that it didn't even exist for women to be out running and exercising and aerobics and all those things of the sort of the 80s and 90s as it took off.

Mari Thomas-Welland:

Absolutely, and especially for women as well. It's there's so much research and development and funding that goes into footwear, and we all know how important it is to look after your running gear and your shoe, and but for women, having a sports bra that's a good sports bra is just as important, but up till now it's not really being considered on the same kind of level. And so I'm really passionate as well as getting women to look at sports bras as an important piece of technical gear as your footwear, and so treating them both the same, placing them as often as each other and giving them the same level of attention so that you make sure that you are comfortable running. Because if you don't have either of those things, then it can literally stop unit tracks.

Sue Anstiss:

And what was the toughest technical design breakthrough in terms of moving from that idea and the charity shop band to a finished product? So talk us a little bit through that process.

Mari Thomas-Welland:

Yeah, so I knew that the overband is what makes the special. That's what's unique to all of our bras. And so the the most challenging part for me was actually how to fix it to the bra because they're all all of our bras have that integrated into it. It's not a separate thing that you buy, it's a sports bra that comes with an integrated overband in it. We actually have a couple of models. So one that has an adjustable overband, so you can adjust the tension of that overband over your chest. So if you're having a bigger or smaller time of the month, or if you wanted a little bit more extra support for the activity that you're doing, then you can tighten the overband on the sides as well. But on some of our models, it's fixed in at a predetermined tension. And so it was quite tricky to figure that out and how that was going to fix into a good place on the bra so that it would do the job that it's meant to do and also not irritate anybody. And I also wanted to make sure that I wasn't releasing like this Frankenstein-looking bra that people are like, oh my god, that looks scary. I'm not going anywhere near that. I still wanted to make sure that it looked like a good bra, but had this extra bit of technology to it that was going to offer you more support and confidence. So I wanted to make sure there was obvious what he was doing, but didn't look scary. But yeah, all the uh it was fixing into the bra at the right points.

Sue Anstiss:

And you've clearly, clearly done that. I did message you after I bought my bra to tell you because how amazed I was. I loved it, I love the fit, I love the feel, the fabric, the width of the straps, the wide, the secure fasting was so much about it that was lovely. So I am intrigued to know how do you balance that science and all the engineering with that need for style and comfort and all, you know, and I love the colour. I mean, I'm a big fan, as you can tell. But but that balance is is tricky, isn't it, to get those things. Exactly.

Mari Thomas-Welland:

And I could see that in my trials at the time. I honestly I learned so much from my sports bra testing days that have been carried forward into what I do now. I um I it's an incredibly valuable experience. And so I recognized while I was doing those trials and those testings that you can bring out the best uh performing bra in the world. If it looks ugly, people are not gonna buy it. So it's really, really important to have all those elements thought about during the design process because it can be, you know, make or break. It's you know, you do need to make sure that you do have a good-looking bra at the end of the day, too, as well as it performing really well. So I did want Maori to be built on foundations of science and engineering and that you know we do put performance first, but also we haven't forgotten about the design element, and that does come into it after as well. So we do want to make sure that we we have both so that it's a good-looking and high-performing sports bra.

Sue Anstiss:

Yeah, that's so interesting, isn't it? And that's so true, isn't it? I think about old sports bras I've had in the past and whatever that don't look more, I was gonna say medicinal. I don't mean medicinal, but overly functional and not a beautiful thing. And actually, you want to put your kit on and feel good in it as well, too. And especially, I guess, with many younger women, not me, but that whole exercising just in just for I mean as Serena showed in her pictures, women exercising and showing their sports bras, and actually you want that it to look as good as the rest of your kit. What's to stop other big manufacturers now jumping on board and going, oh, we like the old band and incorporating that in their designs? Is that a concern for you?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

So it is something that we've always thought about since the beginning. So we've always made sure to get the IP wherever we can and to make sure that we protect ourselves as much as we possibly can too. Uh, we have seen a couple of brands already trying to, you know, bring out something similar. And you know, thankfully that we've, you know, I tried some of those bras and they are not, you know, to the same standards as ours. So they are missing that kind of little bit of magic. But I think I just think our bra is is so well thought through. And if someone was to kind of jump on that and trying to copy someone else, it's it's never going to be as good as the real thing. And so, yeah, I always think that you always have to, you know, stay true to yourself and build on the foundations that you have as a company, and that should hopefully carry you through.

Sue Anstiss:

I love that. And launching a brand's never easy, is it? So, what was the scariest leap you feel you had to make in those early days of getting started?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

Oh my gosh, I had so many of them. It's difficult to pick one because I I've never done any business courses or anything like that. And so I didn't go to Luftborough and do a sports engineering degree thinking at the end of this, I want to start a business. That was never really my goal. I was just interested in sports products and helping women. I just happened to kind of stumble across this idea, which I thought was good, and then develop myself. And so suddenly I thought, oh my God, I've got a business and I don't have any business experience whatsoever. Nobody in my family has any business experience. And so a lot of it was just learning as you go, which uh I think I quickly realized you just have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable and figuring out how this all is built from the bottom up, I think, is also a really good way to build a company because then you don't you know everything that you're hiring for but underneath you because you've done it already. Because you've had to figure that out yourself.

Sue Anstiss:

Mary was taken off as uh COVID hit. So how did you manage to keep the business alive and and even grow it during that period? Because it was such when when was it? When when did you have your first bras?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

Gosh, so yeah, December 2018 was the first time that we launched. And so we had a year before COVID hit, which is not very long, and it was a very tough time for the business. So we were due to get a restock in in the February 2020, and that never happened, uh, unfortunately, because of COVID hitting. And so we kind of had to wait out the storm a bit and you know, try and keep people interested and remind people that we're here and don't forget about us because we had just gone completely out of stock by March. And so I was suddenly a sports bra company with no sports bras to sell, which was an incredibly scary feeling. Unfortunately, we had, you know, very low outgoing. So um I was I was able to kind of manage the storm a bit. But then we have to turn these mistakes into opportunities. And so that's when the idea for online fittings came around. So I knew that I wanted to get people in our sports bras when they arrived back. So to keep people interested and so that they knew what size they needed to get once the stock was back in, then I was gonna fit them. But obviously, we couldn't do that in person anymore. So I introduced online fittings. I was doing them one day only and see how they went on. But they were so successful, I was completely fully booked. And so I thought, okay, I'll do it again next month. And then I thought that turned into a monthly thing, which then turned into a weekly thing, which turned into a multi, it's multiple times a week now. And they worked so well for us that we still do them today. And they are one of the reasons that people keep coming back to us because they just feel like their hand is being held throughout the process, because so many women have question marks around their size and what style they need, that it's become one of our cornerstones as a business. I think it's one of the reasons people keep coming back to us. But we did actually go, I think six or seven months without any stock during COVID. And so when I finally opened orders again in October, November time, fortunately, we have our best sales day ever, which is still our record day to date. Like it was such a good day of sales that we were able to kind of kickstart the business again. And we actually made up, we predicted all the sales we would have done in that six to seven month period, and we did all of that in that first day, which was incredible.

Sue Anstiss:

Oh wow, wow. And did you ever think about jacking it all in and going to try something different during COVID where you were so frustrated with not having stock? Or did you see the passion was there for the brand?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

We didn't I didn't think that at all, actually. I was very frustrated, and it was a very tough time. But I just I loved what I do, and there was such a a calling from our audience for our bras to come back. So I could feel there was a need there, and we can fulfill that. We just it was so frustrating getting our bras back in to stock. So I knew that kind of that flood was coming, but it was just so frustrating to be able to kind of keep telling people, so sorry, not yet, not yet.

Sue Anstiss:

And it does feel like community is so central to everything you've done with Mary. How has that kind of sisterhood of your supporters shaped the journey? It's obviously so important there during COVID, but but as the time's gone on, has that been maintained?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

Yeah, and and that's something we really want to be concentrating on more going forward as well. We're going to be dedicating more time to that because we do know how important it is and how integral it's been to our journey so far. So it is something we definitely want to keep building on because I feel like we are tapping into a community of women who really get what we're trying to do and really believe in the same things that we believe in. And so we want to be putting on more events, more you know, more activities that we can all meet up at and do amazing things and support one another. So watch this space.

Sue Anstiss:

Lovely. I went back to Love Bratchley a couple of weeks ago. I was at a women's health conference and was blown away by a presentation about sports bras and breast health from Professor Deirdre McGee. And I realized when I was listening, there's so much that I don't know that can I feel I've been around this space for a while, but so much I didn't know, especially around the anatomy of the breast and movement and impact and the things that you've alluded to then. So, what do you feel are still some of the most common myths and mistakes that women are making in the sports bra space?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

So I feel like a lot of a myth, um, one of the biggest myths is that uh we have a lot of women coming up to us saying, Oh, I'm too small to need a sports bra. And I always think, oh, okay. I mean, you will need probably different levels of support than someone who is larger chested, but you shouldn't negate that as thinking, oh, I don't need any support whatsoever, because there's a lot of research out there that shows that even A cups will move, you know, your breasts will move four centimeters when you're running.

Sue Anstiss:

Wow.

Mari Thomas-Welland:

And so that's still something. And you want to be making sure that you look after yourself and protect the ligaments in your um in your chest to make sure that you are looking after your body. And then that's compared to, I think if if you're an F cup, I believe, then your boost can move up to 14 centimeters when you're running. And so you can just see that there is a difference there, but even A cups do also move. So you need to make sure that you've got the right support for you still. So I say that's the biggest myth. With regards to the biggest mistake, that is undoubtedly that women uh and men, but mostly women, will still be getting their bra size wrong. They misunderstand how bra sizing actually works. So, what I mean by this is for example, let's say someone's a size 34D, and so they think, oh, I'm a 34 back, I'm a D chest. And then if they want to go down a back size and then they go, okay, now I need a 32D, that's actually not correct because a D cup, it will be smaller on a smaller back sizes and bigger on bigger back sizes. So the letter in your bra size does not represent a specific volume. Those letters even vary across back sizes. So if you actually to go down a back size to a 32, you actually need to go up a cup letter just to keep the same volume. So 32 double D and 34D are actually the same size breast volume. And that's what people are getting wrong most of the time. So that if they change their bra size, they're doing it incorrectly. And so there's no wonder that people are wearing the wrong size because they don't know how to how to pick their bra size out correctly, which is completely understandable.

Sue Anstiss:

It's so interesting, isn't it? Is that historical, what we've grown up with, what we've heard in the past, all that kind of myths and lack of conversations that that needs to change. Uh, what difference do you think it could make generally to especially talk about teenage girls dropping out of sport? But if we could get more girls in the right supportive sports bras or just in sports bras, what difference and impact do you think that could have? Oh, 100%.

Mari Thomas-Welland:

It's one of the main reasons that girls drop out of sport at such a young age. And so if we can get rid of that barrier, then and suddenly get, you know, talking more openly about sports bras from such a young age or providing them, you know, more regularly in schools, then you know, the drop rate will will decrease. And so we want to make sure that we're keeping more girls in sport and leading healthy, active lifestyles. Because for me, uh I'm sure you'll find this too, Sue, but sport offers more to me than just keeping healthy or keeping fit. Like it gets you social skills, skills, it gets you leadership skills, it gets you a social life. It just gives you so much more than what you think it does on the on the face of it.

Sue Anstiss:

I think, yeah. And for me, it's always about joy and happiness and connection. It's all sometimes we forget that those lovely elements of playing games in sport, don't we? To kind of think about the other elements it contributes. Uh, we talked about Serena being seen in your sports bras, but along with her, you've also worked more formally with Lioness, Millie Bright, and Superstar, Neville Superstar, Eleanor Caldwell. So, why has it been important to you to partner with athletes, especially athletes that are very happy to use their voices for social purpose?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

Absolutely. And these have been really organic relationships as well. So they've either had problems with sports bras in the past and have wanted to try it mine, or um, you know, they've reached out to us because they've had problems and have heard how good our sports bras are. So the relationship has always been very organic, and we're always really passionate about partnering with people who are voices in this community for either sports bras or uh female empowerment, which is again everything that we stand for. So yeah, we love partnering with Millie and also with Elna because they're both strong women in the sport who don't mind, you know, calling things out and making sure that they, you know, that the industry is catering for them and, you know, making sure that women's kit is held to a higher standard and voicing their concerns when they think they have one. So yes, they're fantastic athletes and we love them for that, but also we love that they're strong women as well.

Sue Anstiss:

Alongside selling in the UK, you also now deliver across Europe and the USA and Australia. Did you imagine the brand would go global so quickly?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

No, not absolutely, absolutely not. Because we've never done any marketing in any of those other territories, just the UK. Wow. And the fact that people are hearing about us in all of these different territories, and we think suddenly thinking, oh my gosh, we need to better cater for these uh markets and making sure that they have a good, you know, customer experience. So yeah, that the kind of the demand came, and so we needed to make sure that we were catering for them really well. And so I can't wait to see what we can do in all these territories too, with the UK being our main focus still, but it's so great to see that we're getting some kind of organic reach in these other places as well.

Sue Anstiss:

And you've also expanded into leggings and tees and the brilliantly named sisterhoodie. I love that. I really love that. Thank you. So, what are your uh longer-term plans in terms of kind of sportswear and expansion into that bigger space?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

Yeah, so we do want to become a sportswear company for women. And so, like other big brands have done before now, so like Nike did with shoes and like Lululemon did with leggings, they started with a specific product and became known for that. And so I want to make sure that we still focus really heavily on sports bras. Yeah, we need to be known for that, and that's the reason that people are going to be coming to us. But we do want to make sure then we are then expanding our range beyond the sports bra so that we can become that kind of all-rounder sportswear brand.

Sue Anstiss:

And how is it going now without giving away any business secrets or anything that you're working on? But what's the proportion of your either your time or your investment in terms of products beyond the sports bra?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

So, yeah, we are like I said, we're still concentrating on sports bras mainly for the foreseeable future, but we are already adding pieces to our collection so that people can wear full outfits together, you know, have matching pieces and even providing other pieces that are supportive in one way or another. Because, like I said, we are all about supporting women. So, for example, leggings that are really sculpting are going to hold you kind of in as well. And so, yeah, I feel like as long as they are all about supporting women, then we are for it too.

Sue Anstiss:

And what are the pinch points that you're facing? Did you look to scale further and grow? And I it's lovely because I've kind of watched your journey and and seen both the profile and the popularity, but obviously the availability and you know, people commenting on how amazing the products are. But where do you see those pinch points right now as you scale further?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

So I know that we do we do so many sizes. We have in our at our peak, we've done 52 sizes across our bras, which is a lot of infantry, especially if we want to do it in lots of colours. So, as you can imagine, that is quite tricky to you manage, especially across different territories. And so that's something that we are keeping an eye on going forward. We know there's one of the reasons, again, that people keep coming to us. They love the amount of size that we have. So we don't want to be getting rid of that, but we just need to figure out a better way to manage it and making sure that we can kind of cater to as many people as we can, but still managing that inventory level going forward. So that's always something that we're evaluating going forward.

Sue Anstiss:

That's really interesting, isn't it? Because almost like that ease is having less, less of a range to have that diversity of sizes. But I can imagine that is tough to stop.

Mari Thomas-Welland:

We picked a tricky product to start with.

Sue Anstiss:

It's so true, isn't it? When you think about, I haven't thought about that before. But you think about shoes, like it is quite simply how many sizes of shoes you need. It is so different in a sports bar, isn't it? Yeah. Many people kind of come into the space, do you think, and then fall over around that, not almost not thinking about that vast range that's needed.

Mari Thomas-Welland:

Absolutely. And especially if you don't know what size you are, or you think you know your size, but you have you know different issues like oh, chafing or not getting enough support, those issues are probably related to your size. But because they're coming into this process thinking they already know their size, then they might not change their size. And so it's just basically reaching out to those women and making them question whether they're in the right size to begin with. And if they're not sure, then we can help them along with the way too.

Sue Anstiss:

And how important is external investment for your growth? Where are you in in that journey?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

So we have taken on our first round of investment last year. So that was our first ever round. And so, yeah, we are on that journey and it's helped us immensely. So we have now gone into retail, which is fantastic. So um up till now, we've only done D2C, um, so just direct to consumer. And so we've done all of our sales through our website only and fitted everyone online or you know, at little pop-up events that we go to every now and then, like the running show, for example. And so now that we've gone into retail, people can actually physically try us on in person again in different locations, which is fantastic. We have a list of those on our website if anybody wants to check them out.

Sue Anstiss:

Where are you without without specifically wanting you to list them all? But where might people find you?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

So there's lots of different places. We've just signed um with Booby Doo, for example. So they're up in Derby. Oh, good. And then there's also Run and Become in London and Victoria, and then there's lots of independent shops in between as well. So you can look at them all on our website.

Sue Anstiss:

And is that your ambition to be in a bigger chain? Is that is that the bit that will make a massive difference for the brand? Or actually, is it the independent running outlets and sports outlets where you you feel the home is?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

So not to have too much of a pun, but we'll let's we're gonna try and walk before we can run. Yeah. So we want to make sure that we, you know, we're gonna cater for those smaller independent ones to begin with, making sure that our stock levels are managed correctly over the next little while, making sure that we can, you know, add one or two more. And then who knows? We can then build up to see who who else we can go with and maybe go on a larger scale. But we're gonna make sure that we can do things properly before we get even that level first.

Sue Anstiss:

And I imagine have knowing you and knowing I've been for a fitting in in uh in so London, actually. That's right. But just the the quality of those people fitting. I guess that's a real key piece for you as well. It isn't just about having the product in stock, it's about making sure the people that are uh fitting meet your quality of standards too.

Mari Thomas-Welland:

Absolutely. And that's something we want to make sure of when we do go around and build these relationships with these retailers, is making sure that we have a training day with them and that we make sure that you know they are fitting in the same way that we do. But not just that, but identifying the issues that women currently have, you know, the reason they're coming into the store that day and saying, I even do sports bra because of XYZ. And so identifying through that conversation what needs improving as well and what style would be best for them. So yeah, all very important stuff and one that we want to continue with all our retailers as well.

Sue Anstiss:

I feel like Mary stands for support in many different ways. And we've talked about the support of people and obviously the whole process of support. But what does that mean to you? I guess personally, what does support mean to you? What do you where do you feel you've got that from the community personally and professionally?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

So I think it's just all about supporting one another. And so again, like I said, it's in every sense of that word. So support could be providing a better sports bra so that I can now go and run confidently and without any pain. But then in other words, it could be, you know, through an event that we do and we support you with the education that we have so that you know, so you feel empowered about going out bra shopping on your own going forward and through motherhood as well. So basically, if someone has just given birth and they need a different sports bra because they now need to breastfeed. So making sure that they have all the tools for all the stages of their lives and with it obviously not just being constrained to sports bras as well, but to the education and other tools that we can provide women to make sure that they are empowered to lead the lives that they want to.

Sue Anstiss:

It sounds like, as I talked to you, like you're thoroughly enjoying it, and obviously it's been challenging. D do you love what you do? Is it again? It must be frustrating and sort of sleepless nights in terms of logistics and funding and so on, but but are you enjoying the process?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

I really, really am. And like you said, there there will be days where you feel like you want to pull your hair out and things are not going your way. But if you're still getting through those days and still thinking, I really like what I do, then I think you're probably on the right path. And yeah, I thoroughly, thoroughly like love what I do, and especially speaking to people at live events and in person, and then relaying back to us say things like, Oh, I saw you last year, I've got your bra, it's made such a big deal for us. I've come back from another, and it's like, oh, that stuff is what what gets me going, what keeps me going.

Sue Anstiss:

I love it. I was just joining a long line of women sending you an email going, Oh my god, it's it's so amazing. I love it so much. And looking ahead, what impact do you want Mary to have on women's sport in the next five, ten years? Where do you see things going?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

I would love to support more and more women around the country. So, you know, that's why we have such a vast array of sizes. You know, there isn't that one sports bra out there that's gonna suit everybody. Like we know that. So it's making sure that we have a good collection to suit most women as best as we can with you know the different stages of their day, even let alone their life. And so I want to make sure that we're becoming the the hub that women go to so that they get the education around bras, around sports bras, and then also hopefully buy from us as well.

Sue Anstiss:

Yeah, absolutely. It does feel, again, from the outside, but it feels very authentic. You've got a lovely relationship, I think, with Copper Feel in my bra. I've got a little logo about so you've and I guess the affiliation with athletes, it does feel like you've gone out very intelligently to kind of form some of those partnerships and work with different partners. Is that obviously important to you to make sure you're authentically partnering with the right organizations?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

Absolutely, because your audience will be able to see straight through that if it's inauthentic. And so we've never ever tried to be someone that we're not. And I think I especially am the very target audience for this brand, uh, which is helpful because then I know I know the kind of things I want to see and the kind of relationships that I would like to form. And so, yeah, the the instant that you start viewing off of that track of authenticity, then people will start to see straight through you.

Sue Anstiss:

And are there specific sports? I mean, you're working, I feel like you're a bit sport agnostic. You're working across lots of sports, but are there any specific sports that have really adopted the kind of Marie bra and done a lot with you?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

Yeah, yeah. Like I said, we we've started out in running um because we just felt like that appealed to the mass market and people understand then what the bra is trying to achieve. But like you said, we've delved into lots more specific sports after that. And funny enough, probably the one of our first ones after running was during COVID, skipping really took off. And so we became really known in the skipping community for being the bra that you go for to stop that bounce because you're bouncing up and down a lot, but you know, you don't want your booze to go go away from you, and so yeah, skipping was one of the first ones, and now as you can see, we've gone into netball, football, rugby as well. So we are starting to kind of dip our toes into those other sports in in quite an exciting and interesting way, I think. So yeah, we'll see what comes next.

Sue Anstiss:

It's very exciting. And and just finally, what would you say to any other women that might be listening to this with a perhaps a product idea who's wondering is it really worth pursuing? You know, what what would your advice be to them?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

I would say really, you know, really test it thoroughly. And like I did, you need to sleep on it a little bit and make sure that there is really a gap in this market. It does definitely help when you are your own target customer because I was looking out for a good sports bra for most of my life and was failing at it, so I could just see that there was a good gap in the market to fulfill and get some good mentors on board too, because I think that's a really good way to bounce some ideas off of someone because it can be quite lonely being your own CEO in a company of one.

Sue Anstiss:

Have you found that support? So the mentors have been important to you in terms of the business, are the women or men and women that have been in this space?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

Yeah, absolutely. And groups like the Women's Sport Collective are really helpful for that. You know, at the end of your fan in a WhatsApp group, there is lots of women to talk to and who would have gone through this experience before you. And so it's a really good way to, yeah, communicate with lots of other people who are going through the same thing as you and not feeling alone.

Sue Anstiss:

Lovely. I often think that that fanders group is so nice, is even if women aren't sharing or just watching the conversations that are going on, you get a lot from that if you were at the early stages. Exactly.

Mari Thomas-Welland:

I don't I don't necessarily participate in every single conversation, but I do see all of it. And so you can like jump in whenever you feel like you can either contribute or get some help.

Sue Anstiss:

And I wonder what would you have done if it hadn't been sports bras? And I look thinking back to the degree that you did at Loughborough, going full circle. Was there anything else, any other area that you might have taken if it hadn't been the sports bras space?

Mari Thomas-Welland:

To be honest, I was the the the only thing I was thinking of before before sports bras, and it's simply because that's what the majority of everyone else was thinking on the course, is that you end up going into footwear because that was, you know, the the sexy topic at the time, and everyone wears footwear, and so it just felt like everyone on the course wanted to go into footwear at some point. So I just kind of was following the crowd because that sounded great. But yeah, once realizing sports bras were just as important, I thought, eh, wait a minute, this is this is more interesting.

Sue Anstiss:

What a joy to hear more from Mary about her sportswear journey. We look forward to following and seeing where that all goes in the future. If you'd like to hear from other Trailblazers, there are over 200 episodes of the Game Changers podcast that are all free to listen to on most platforms or from our website at fearlesswomen.co.uk. Along with entrepreneurs, you can hear from elite athletes, coaches, broadcasters, scientists, journalists, and CEOs, all women who are changing the game in sport. As well as listening to all the podcasts on the website, you can also find out more about the Women's Sport Collective, a free, inclusive community for all women working at all levels of sport. We now have over 14,000 members across the world, so please do come and join us. The whole of my book, Game On the Unstoppable Rise of Women's Sport, is also free to listen to on the podcast. Every episode of series 13 is me reading a chapter of the book. Thank you to Sport England for backing the Game Changers and the Women's Sport Collective with a National Lottery Award, and to Sam Walker at What Goes On Media, who does such an excellent job as our executive producer. Thank you, as always, to my brilliant colleague at Fearless Women, Kate Hannon. The Game Changers is available on all podcast platforms, so please follow us now to ensure you don't miss out on future episodes. Do come and say hello on social media where you'll find me on LinkedIn and Instagram at Sue Anstus. The Game Changers. Fearless women in sport.

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Sue Anstiss

Host
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Sam Walker

Producer