The Game Changers

Sophie Power: The woman rewriting the rules of endurance sport

• Sue Anstiss • Season 20 • Episode 3

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When a photograph of Sophie Power breastfeeding her three-month-old baby mid-race went viral, it sparked a global conversation about motherhood, sport, and equality. But for Sophie, the moment was never about heroics - it was about the barriers women face just to reach a start line.

In this powerful episode of The Game Changers, Sophie – a world record-breaking ultra-runner and founder of SheRACES – shares how she’s challenging a sport designed for men, campaigning for pregnancy deferrals, fair cut-offs and real equity for women in endurance events worldwide.

In this episode, Sophie reveals:

  • The anger and injustice behind that iconic UTMB image
  • Why so few women make it to ultra start lines – and how to change that
  • The life-changing power of endurance challenges for women everywhere
  • How SheRACES is driving global reform in running and triathlon events
  • What resilience really looks like when you’re juggling motherhood, sport and ambition

From running 347 miles across Ireland to smashing a 48-hour treadmill world record, Sophie Power is redefining what’s possible and refusing to leave other women behind.

Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.

Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers

Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media

A Fearless Women production

Sue Anstiss:

Hello and welcome to the Game Changers. I'm Sue Anstis, and this is the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazing women in sport, breaking boundaries and challenging the status quo for women and girls everywhere. What can we learn from their journeys as we explore key issues around equality in sport and beyond? A huge thank you to Sport England, who support the Game Changers podcast through a national lottery award. My guest today is Sophie Power, a British 24-hour ultra runner, world record holder and leading voice for women's inclusion and equity in sport. Known for her extraordinary endurance and pioneering advocacy, sophie's story is as much about challenging the culture of sport as it is about pushing human limits. Sophie is the fastest woman ever to run the length of Ireland, covering 347 miles in an astonishing 84 hours and 8 minutes, and she also holds the Guinness World Record for the greatest distance run on a treadmill in 48 hours, in an astonishing 84 hours and 8 minutes, and she also holds the Guinness World Record for the greatest distance run on a treadmill in 48 hours In 2018, a powerful and unforgettable image of Sophie breastfeeding her three-month-old baby during a gruelling UTMB mountain race captured hearts worldwide and ignited a global conversation about motherhood and endurance.

Sue Anstiss:

Harnessing the platform of that moment, sophie founded SheRaces, a groundbreaking research and advocacy organisation that's driven equity for women in sporting events across the globe. So, sophie, let's begin with that iconic image you breastfeeding your baby during the 106 mile utmb mountain race. For anyone that hasn't seen the photo, can you describe it and set the scene for us?

Sophie Power:

I mean the photo is it's at the 50 mile point and the race starts at six o'clock at night. So I've gone through the night. It's the next morning. He's only breastfed. So I've got these. Breasts are very full of milk. I'm very tender and I've been trying to squeeze them out behind trees and on the path just to relieve that tension. And the photo is is just me breastfeeding Cormac, one side, pumping the other side. There's a full feed in both of them and next to me there's a guy asleep on the floor. Because that's what I wanted to do, because I'd been running through the night and that's what I should have been doing the checkpoint. But I'm there to finish a race and I've got to breastfeed my baby. I've got to get him some milk for the rest of the time and then get on with the race. But it's a beautiful photograph taken by the photographer, alexis Berg, and it just captures, I think, that mother athletes have to juggle, you know, our goals, our sporting goals, our any goals, and also being mother.

Sue Anstiss:

You're right, though it is a beautiful photograph, I think, as you say, that kind of comparison of the guy with his legs laying upwards as he's sleeping next to you two, that is almost the bit that kind of sets it apart, the difference in those two athletes. I remember seeing it at the Getty exhibition it was at the Saatchi Museum as one of the iconic images of women's sport from across a period of time. So I think for so many women it was so powerful. But taking yourself back to that moment, how did you feel, physically and emotionally? What was going through your mind?

Sophie Power:

I think I was angry really because I shouldn't have been there. I should have had the opportunity to race the year after, when I was fully physically fit and back together. And the UTMB, the Ultra Trail de Mont Blanc, is like the world championships of ultra running. I got my first place in 2014. You have to run qualifying races quite difficult ones, 100 mile type races and then be successful in a ballot. And I got my place in 2014.

Sophie Power:

I lost it because I was pregnant with my first son and they said you couldn't defer for pregnancy, you could for injury. Pregnancy was a choice a choice. I would argue that the timing of pregnancy is not a choice, certainly for none of my three babies, and I didn't want to lose my place again and I thought I'll just go 10K, I'll just enjoy the atmosphere. Chamonix at that time is incredible and it was something in the diary for me to stay fit through pregnancy, to have that goal. That made me believe that I was going to get back to who I was, and so I was angry that I shouldn't have been there, but very much I was thinking about well, I can do this.

Sophie Power:

You know, I can juggle this. I've got my baby, I've got my goals, I've got an incredibly supportive family behind me and I genuinely didn't think it was unusual. I didn't think there was anything weird about what I was doing. I was just a mother with goals and mums just get on with it. And I wasn't on social media at the time and it was only when my world exploded the week after that I realized that this isn't the norm for many women. They don't go after girls and they do struggle getting back and maybe there's something I can do to support these women.

Sue Anstiss:

And how did you feel when that image did go viral? Had you known the image was taken at the time? He definitely asked. I didn't really mean to ask that, but I've never thought before of course no.

Sophie Power:

He asked and I do. You know what I thought? Do you know if the race organisers see this image, they'll think this is ridiculous. What are we doing? We should absolutely let her race when she's ready, and it took me four years to get that for other women. But now, actually, utmb have some of the best pregnancy deferral policies in the world at five years and we work very closely together. But that's all I thought would happen. But that was the reason it's such a personal photograph. I've got my bra hoiked up over my boobs. It's not the most flattering, but I just thought. You know, if this changes it for one woman and they can take on this goal when they're ready, then that's worth it.

Sue Anstiss:

It's really interesting, isn't it? Because I hadn't thought, because when you see the image and I remember feeling how powerful the image is you feel it's a celebration of motherhood and extraordinary women that can do all things, and not that absolutely you shouldn't. The point is you shouldn't have been there. If you'd have had the option, you would have chosen to race the following year or the year after.

Sophie Power:

I think so and I think that everyone says, well, do you wish they had the policies back in place? Then it's like, well, no, now, given what the change has been in the world since then and founding she races and everything I've gone on to do now I'm glad I got myself around. Yeah, the goal was never to get round, but it was the day before I had my three-year-old and he was watching other mostly men, fathers with their children cross the lines of the shorter races and said, mom, that's going to be me. I said, oh God, I've got to get around 106 miles and you could do it hiking and my pelvis wasn't back together and it was just a you know, let's get around this for Donika to have that experience. So I'm so glad I did it.

Sophie Power:

And then I went on to have a third baby and had a completely different getting back and I was very conscious that this isn't the norm. You know women aren't expected to run 106 miles at three months postpartum. With my third, I expected to get back quickly and I had a prolapse and it took a lot longer that journey. So I was very conscious not putting pressure on women to say this is what you should be doing and being very open with the support around me to be able to do that. But what we want to do is make sure that women can get back and we do have the support around them, and that was the goal coming out that maybe we can raise some of these issues and highlight that we struggle after we have babies.

Sue Anstiss:

And looking back now, was it that moment, it was that photograph that shaped the journey that you've had since then in all that you've done. Would you have gone on to do that, do you think, if it hadn't gone viral and had the profile that it did?

Sophie Power:

No, I think it's definitely a kind of the sliding doors moment in my life. I think there's been a couple, I think the day I signed up for my first run, having never run more than a mile and decided to run across the Sahara, and then this allowing this photo to go out, and I think I originally realized that you know we needed to talk about pregnancy deferrals and every race should have them, and so many race directors contacted me and said I can't believe we haven't thought of this and you know we have a no deferral for any circumstance. Of course we should allow women we need to actively encourage women to start line, and it started with that and it started with my story on balance. And then I start realizing that you know, it's not just pregnancy. If we look at the start lines I'm on the longer start lines. Sometimes they're only 10% women, 20%. Ultras are a minority, but women are phenomenal at a very early age. We don't feel as good at boys as sport, but so many of the events can do something about.

Sophie Power:

And can I use this platform that I've been gifted to work with event organisers to get more women on start lines, because for me, racing has been a transformation of my life. I wasn't a sporty kid. I was second last in the mile at school, somehow. I now run for Great Britain, but for very much, I believe finishing lines change lives and you only have to stand on the end of a marathon or kind of these ultras and watch people come across and go. They signed up for something they weren't quite sure they could do it and they complete it and you know it gives you so much strength throughout the rest of your life that this is something that everyone deserves.

Sophie Power:

And if I can use this platform to enable other women to have these life-changing kind of transformations that give them the strength, that give them the power to be born, and I've just in the process of writing a book and kind of stage one I think was the sharing my story. Stage two is she races and I'm very much working with events. And stage three is using sport as this lens for the rest of society and where she races goes and where I'm, I'm asked and we work with rent for football club on a maternity policy, the season ticket holders. So set by thinking well, if women have to be supported to get back from from pregnancy and sport, what about the rest of our lives. What about the other ways in business in which women are different from men? And can we use sport as an example to then get people thinking differently about medical provision, about how we can we treat in the workplace? So that's what's really exciting, and it's crazy that all of that has come out of one photographer being in an aid station 50 miles into a race.

Sue Anstiss:

And there's so much I want to unpack and go into with you there. But before I do, going back to the comment that you made about suddenly running across the desert when you'd only run a few miles before, how did that start? Why was that the turning point that happened?

Sophie Power:

I think I grew up as the unsporty kid. I say the unsporty kid I think that was lots of us that were unsporty. My parents never pushed sport. I think my kids are. They're 4'7". They're so sporty, they love it, they just adore it. And I never had that access to sport. And I was second last in my school when I was 14.

Sophie Power:

I remember it so clearly, kind of in those awful pea knickers that rode up and the chafing, the chafing from just running that mile in the heat, and I just wrote myself off, as a lot of women do. We write ourselves off. I can't do this, I'm not capable, I'm not talented. I loved hiking, I love being outside. I wanted to play team sport but I just didn't have the options and you weren't chosen for the team unless you'd played it before. And my hand-eye coordination is slightly lacking compared to my kids. My seven-year-old beats me at tennis. I've given up now. But I wrote myself off.

Sophie Power:

And then I was made redundant from a job in finance when I was 26. I got married and they needed to make some redundancy. So they told me to go off and have babies. And, um, then my friend had just done this marathon, the 250 kilometer race across the the sahara and I trained as a pilot navigator when I was at university in the royal air force, um, and we'd done this marches there's nine mega marches, 100 miles over four days. And he'd been in my team and I'd done well and he said you could do this.

Sophie Power:

And I said but I don't run, he goes. No, everyone hikes. They call it the hardest race in the world but everyone walks. You've got to go three kilometers an hour to make the cutoffs, so it's a slow walk and sometimes you get this point in your life where you don't have a reason to say no and if you don't have a good reason to say no you just have to say yes.

Sophie Power:

And I blindly trusted him, signed up, had nine months to go from zero running to 250 kilometers and you know it transformed the rest of my life Kind of. I worked out that actually I was good at this and some of the skill sets I developed of logistics, of planning, of mental toughness, and I started my career as an investment banker so we used to work kind of seven day weeks and all nighters, so it's pretty handy when you have to run through the whole night and that just set me on a different trajectory and completely changed my thinking of I never thought I could do this. So what are the other things in my life that I never thought I could do that maybe I can do because I've done this?

Sue Anstiss:

And what's the gap in time, then, from doing that to that photo being taken?

Sophie Power:

Eight years. So this was pre-baby, this was 2010. I did the Marathon de Saab and then I started doing the same kind of races all around the world. I mean, I call them holidays because you do kind of five, six, seven days and you carry your own things, or sometimes they carry it for you and you see a country in a completely different way and it's spectacular. And I was in Nepal and Bhutan and Cambodia and in Iceland, sometimes dragging my hubby along for company and meeting people I'd never meet. So this was what I did with poor children. And then you have kids and it's pretty hard to go away for 10 days, and so I started running the longer distances nonstop, so focusing on 100 mile races where you can start running. You run a long way and then you're done the next day and you've got to pick up the pieces of the kids.

Sue Anstiss:

And it is interesting to see how that's evolved at your ultra running career alongside motherhood a rare combination, but actually probably not so when you talk to more women that are in that space. But have you noticed ways in which motherhood has made you a better athlete?

Sophie Power:

I think so. I think I'm kind of the reverse athlete in that I wasn't sporty at school and now the older I get, the faster I seem to get the tougher challenges. I got my first GB best after having my third baby, almost as an accident, because I was trying to qualify for a different race. And then British Athletics call me up the next day and say kind of, would you like to come to European Championships for 24 hours? So for me I think the time I have training is special. I need it. I need that time racing where the only thing I have to think about is putting one foot in front of the other.

Sophie Power:

Outside racing, my brain is a kind of the mental load of three children and and work as she races and everything else is crazy and we all know it and it's the one time I have to to really kind of free myself of this. And the long runs are really special to me at the weekends where I can just just process my thoughts in a way that I can't in general. I have an amazing coach, edwina Sutton, who she's got three kids slightly older, so she absolutely understands my life. And the down weeks in training are kind of half term and the summer holiday, juggle and training is around all of it, but I just prioritize and I don't know what I did with my time before I had kids. To be honest, um, I wasted so much time. I think it's that and learning to look after yourself and deal with monotony.

Sophie Power:

People ask me how do you run laps? So when I run a 24 hour, it's often around an athletics track for 24 hours or as a one kilometer leap. And that's no different to a two-year-old saying mummy, mummy, mummy, can I have this, can I have this, can I have? And that's no different to a two-year-old saying mummy, mummy, mummy, can I have this, can I have this? Can I have that? There's no difference to me in this, so it's it's just a monotony and we get used to dealing with it. So there's lots of ways. If I look at the world championships in Taiwan last time, the British team were four mothers, so there must be something in there and we do hear a lot, I don't know, about mothers feeling the need to choose between motherhood and ambitions in life.

Sue Anstiss:

So what would you say? And I absolutely recognise people in different positions in terms of the support they have around their lives too, but clearly you've managed to combine the two.

Sophie Power:

I'm a better mother when I'm happier than myself and I have my own goals. I mean, the kids throw shoes at me in the morning, at the weekend, like off you go. If you run, dad will give them far better snacks than I will. But they also know that I'm a calm and happier person and I think I'm a much better role model. My four-year-old's a daughter and I'm a much better role model to her to show that dad's got his interests, mom has his interests.

Sophie Power:

But it's difficult and I think after that photo was taken, some of the most powerful messages I had were from dads and they messaged and say you know, my partner was really sporty and active before she had our child and now she doesn't ask to go out, doesn't ask to go running.

Sophie Power:

And I realized that it's not that she doesn't want to, it's that she doesn't feel entitled to, she doesn't feel she's able to ask at that time.

Sophie Power:

And I'm still doing my things and what I have to do as a partner is actually enable her and maybe sign her up to a race.

Sophie Power:

I think one of the big reasons for pregnancy deferrals and we're working on a big report on it just to try and explain why it's so important for women to be able to further place an event, and it's not often about the cost, it's often about that opportunity to have that in the diary, to still feel as we were, to still feel that we're an athlete. We're going to get back there and we're going to do everything we can and get the support there and work so hard on our physical rehabilitation. That's what's important. Having that event in the diary is that excuse that a lot of us need to get out the door at a weekend to go away from the kids for half an hour, an hour, two hours and train. We need to educate our partners in a way that you know they may not feel different from having a baby, but sociologically we've got all these pressures on us and we need to be supported through them.

Sue Anstiss:

That's so interesting. Interesting, isn't it? I hadn't really thought about it from that perspective and yet knowing myself with a goal in mind and an ambition is something to psychologically to aim for, to train for. But of course, having that in a diary and even knowing it's 18 months time rather than six months time can be such a huge, powerful motivator for all you do in life.

Sophie Power:

I mean for me, if I don't have races in the diary, I mean I've got an amazing coach, she'd get me out of bed to do things. But I do need those races, those events, kind of um can. I need to know what's happening next. And having these stepping stones, so when it's kind of when it's like 11 o'clock at night and are we going to put another program on or are we going to have a glass of wine, it's like no training tomorrow, training tomorrow.

Sue Anstiss:

It's better for us and how do your children feel about your achievements and your profile and the visibility of the work you're doing? Are they kind of aware of that they're?

Sophie Power:

very aware and they're so proud and they love being involved. They love being involved and I think the reason, the main reason, I decided to set the world record, to run the next of Ireland, is my husband's Irish. He's from Cork, his whole family are there and you know we wanted to see the country differently, but I knew that it's very difficult for me to take the kids with me on events. The world champs are in Taiwan, I mean, this year they're in France, so they're actually going to come over. But I wanted to do something with them by my side and they were in the camper van. So we dropped my, my daughter, in the south with the grandparents and my mental challenge was I'm just going to get back to Saoirse as soon as I can. The faster I run, the faster I get to my daughter. But the boys were beside me and it was so, so special.

Sophie Power:

Um, it puts a bit of a struggle on because they want to, they want more record certificates, because they love show and tell, love, show and tell. So when I bought a trophy back after the weekend run, they were like, right, okay, which one gets it for show and tell first? But they love it and they they see limits differently, and so when my six-year-old came out for a 10k night run that was set up by an organizer and there were there's lots of Haribo at the checkpoints this is a big sell, but he but he's like, well, I can do anything. And they see women. I think, differently to our friends already is that my mum can do this.

Sophie Power:

Women are different to men. They know that and they know that kind of there's a gap. But they think women are phenomenal athletes and there's two little male advocates that we're going to have kind of growing up that we respect. They love training their sister at tennis. They love seeing her do well. So yeah, there's pressure on to do more web record attempts because they love them. So we've got another one kind of in the works for next year. And, yeah, I love adventures. So any kind of adventure that I can bring them on with me and set a world record if that happens would be brilliant.

Sue Anstiss:

Do they run? Are they runners too?

Sophie Power:

My 10-year-old will run after a ball. If there's a ball, he'll run after it. He's a tennis player, he's a hockey player and he doesn't like, yeah, he won't come along um as much and you'd never want to push it and I wasn't running when I was then. My seven-year-old loves being on his bike. They do sprint intervals. We hike at weekends. We're very outdoorsy and they do lots of sprint intervals at the hill.

Sophie Power:

My four-year-old grew up on the hills. We hike up a big hill down to school and her downhill running is phenomenal. She's got no fear, I will not keep up with her. I like my, I like my hamstrings, so they love sport and it's just encouraging that and encouraging all that kind of learning, the the base skills that I always go back to. But I never had them and I never learned to throw a ball or catch a ball, and that plays down sports to me. I want them to be able to find a sport they love and have that as an asset for life, that they have a way of moving their body, that that makes them happy, that makes them be around other people, and and that's the goal for me it doesn't matter how good they are at it, it's just that they love it Absolutely.

Sue Anstiss:

You founded SheRacism. We've talked about the kind of rationale and the reasoning why, but I wonder if you can share some of the most sort of surprising or important insights. Your research and community engagement has shown you that perhaps even you weren't aware of.

Sophie Power:

Oh, there was so much, I think. When I started thinking about it I thought about all my own barriers that's where I started with and obviously there was the lack of confidence in signing up for things. There was the maternity but women are so diverse, we're so diverse and there's so many different things. So we did a survey of 2000 women to understand mostly running events and we've gone on to do another survey for triathlon and then another one for understanding why women might want to take part in, in women-only events and how that might give them more confidence to then step into kind of the mixed events that the majority of events. So we started off and it was very much.

Sophie Power:

Let's listen to lots of stories and uncover what's happening in events and so much there with the lack of confidence, I think we look at the physiological differences and the need for pregnancy deferrals and period products, the amount of times my period has started mid-race and there's no pockets to carry anything and you're just stuck. It's like toilet paper. It just should be. Alongside that, and looking at the ways, ways where you know 80% of women had had a t-shirt that doesn't fit because they're designed for men. All mine fit me. When I was 37 weeks pregnant. My husband wears them, my kids will all wear them, they'll get born. But those ways that we differ that side, but then also the sociological differences and that we won't sign up to a race. And us we're absolutely sure of making those cutoffs and those languages are dangerous. Most difficult, really hard, changing that language into saying this is the speed you need to go to meet the cutoff. We're going to extend the cutoff as much as we can logistically possible. These are how, all the logistics, how you get. I think 40% of women were put off by race by just not knowing all the information and not missing the first public transport to get there, so we couldn't get there.

Sophie Power:

The imagery when you see a start line, a picture on a website, and it's a start line and it's all the fast men that push their way forward, I don't feel that I belong and I'm not that slow. And my friends that are kind of like novice runners or back of the pack runners, women of color, especially women, different shapes, and the organizer may have an amazing race but they don't feel they belong because that's not the imagery. And when you go on socials and they say the winner of the race is this guy and the winner of the female race is this woman. No, he's a male winner, she's a female winner.

Sophie Power:

There are two races and I think a lot of street races boils down to the fact that you're mixing men and women on a start line and you're designing the race for the men and there's such small changes. So we came up with kind of eight points that any event could put into for almost no money, and then so much more around that from the insight work and put it out there so you can sign up to this. You'll be accredited, we'll push your race out. We want those races that are great for women to have more women on the start line and be successful, and so that's part of it. Part of it is the advocacy kind of you know, trying to convince London Marathon to allow a pregnancy deferral is good for age, which we succeeded in. We had Chicago. We've got the biggest race in the world, utmb Ironman now doing that, and then it's gone very much global and we have SheRaces, india, we're working with races in Uzbekistan, kazakhstan, oman, turkey, guatemala and the.

Sophie Power:

US, hong Kong. So it's this small kind of nonprofit that started up with some research and just saying hi guys, there are some things you can do to be more successful, and suddenly it's a global organization of women really going. I can ask for this. I'm empowered to say do you know what? I love your race, but I really would like pregnancy developed. I'd like period products. I'd like you to talk about the women differently.

Sophie Power:

It's very small changes that make very big differences. And when we work with Threshold on their 50-50 project for Ultra, they agreed to open up all their data to me and we did a big project to get more women on the start line of their 50k race and 100k race, and a 1.5 increase in spend which I think was mostly a bit of sanitary products and a bit of signage had 100% more women on the start line of their target event and 50% more men because they had so much brilliant media attention around it. So we're not a charity. You don't do this because it's the kind of oh no, we feel sorry for women. All these changes are just about equity. They're not making the race easier for us. We don't want that. We just want to feel more comfortable and at the same time you'll make an awful lot more money, be commercially more successful and that's the massive argument behind this and women will be so much more loyal. And women will be so much more loyal.

Sophie Power:

And now, kind of we shift it to talking to the brands. And there's a lot of brands that sponsor races and the brands are saying we're equitable for women, we're inclusive, we do this great product but they sponsor races that aren't. And we will say you know, every brand only sponsored inclusive races. You know, my work will be done. My goal is that she Races doesn't exist, does not need to exist, no-transcript. And there's a lot of things that happen at races that shouldn't happen but they're not managed the right way. So they're the kind of next steps for where we do and we're just looking for the right funding that we can address that, because we put the guidelines out, we can get them out to millions of people on start lines pretty easily and how has response been?

Sue Anstiss:

clearly, when you articulate it in that way, is that why would race organizers not take that on event directors? Because it can be more profitable for them, they'll get more women, they get more men, they'll have more successful races. But I imagine it wasn't that easy and asked because, if it was, people would have been doing it in the first place. So I guess my my question there how has it generally been? Have you seen that change over the period of time? Are many more coming on board with it now?

Sophie Power:

We've had some fights. We've had some fights. It's not easy, I think. I think it's not easy resource getting out to all the races. It's sad that it often takes me to step in and women get no's from races and no's from races and they contact us and I message a race organizer and this is me doing this personally at 11 o'clock at night.

Sophie Power:

Often I were a very small team and I put organizers on a spectrum and there's some that were doing the right thing already and not even probably shouting about it the right way. So you've helped them do that to really attract the women. And if you want to find an inclusive race, you can go on sheracescom and we've got all the race organizers listed. A lot of them will feel like race directors in the first place. Then you've got the group that realize it's the right thing to do so they'll change things. They didn't look at the cost, even though it was so tiny they and they're going above and beyond and things like kind of recce days and things like kind of webinars to understand how things they're looking at really sponsoring some of the underrepresented groups to the start line and making sure kind of that. You know, women of color, women living in cities, women who haven't been exposed to some of these races, can really have those resources to get on the start line.

Sophie Power:

I think the bulk of races, though, are the commercial ones, and you know, you show them now that it's the right thing to do, and they're like we'll do some of that. The ones that really annoy me are the ones that claim that they're equitable because it's great for publicity, and then they're not some of the the interesting ones kind of. When we point it out, they, they get quite defensive. But there are dinosaurs. I mean, we know that there are dinosaurs, and there are, sadly, still events that don't believe that women or slower athletes should be on those start lines. They believe that their events are only for fast people, for men, for younger people, and I mean the dinosaurs went extinct, and that's in my brain.

Sophie Power:

It's so much energy to try and change one of those organizers that could be spent on supporting one of the others that we have to pick our battles. But we know that. You know we want events to be for all, and sometimes you have to have tight cutoffs, but you can rethink things, and one fair race we worked with, you know, women just put off because the timing was so tight and we said, well, and it was due to volunteers on the mountain. We said, well, could you let let some, could you let people off in an earlier start? They're not going to have to open the checkpoint earlier because they'll take slower than the fastest athlete starting an hour later. Could you do that?

Sophie Power:

And suddenly you have 50 kind of more women over 50 signing up to the race and men, many more men over 60 and 70 signing up. So it's everyone. It's not I think it's called she races, but really it's everyone races. And especially when you're looking at creating that culture of acceptance and inclusion on a start line that benefits every athlete, not just women the cutoffs is an interesting area, isn't it?

Sue Anstiss:

if you're not in the world of running, whether ultras or, you know, marathons or any of those, but that idea of the broom wagon kind of sweeping up or being told you know, that is kind of scary thought really. I looked at one of your you're launching some races, or one of your races that she races event with no cut off. How refreshing, you know, for women to see that for, but you should say for people, just to see that there is that opportunity. At whatever pace you're at, you'll be able to finish this race.

Sophie Power:

There's a difference between women and men. Often and I think in our survey, kind of 46% of women have been put off a race by the cutoffs and we underestimate our ability massively, massively. And we worked with Abingdon Marathon last year to try and increase the cutoff of five hours to six hours. They sold out the race the first time in three years with two-thirds more women, and I had a friend who was a 4.15 athlete and that was her normal marathon time. She said well, I'm not signing up for a five-hour cutoff. What if something happens? What if my stomach turns? What if? What if? What if I know if I'm giving up my weekend and I'm training really hard, I want to bring a medal back to my kids and we give up so much to have those racing opportunities.

Sophie Power:

I don't get to race as much as most others because that's a weekend away for my children and I've got to be respectful to my partner and my husband and making sure he's training and she underestimated her potential. We move it six hours, that's. You're a five-hour athlete, you know. You know you can do that and the language is so important and it's something so small and something so easy to change and change the narrative around, but it just hasn't been thought of because we do find that men will sign up to event and look at it later. My husband signed up to an event that was cycling across the country from sunrise to sunset and he signed up, paid the money. He had no idea how he was going to get his bike to the start line, no idea how he was going to get his bike home from the finish line, ended up not doing it because I was like piece of paper. We cannot do this. It's going to cost hundreds of pounds for you to do this and I just couldn't see most women I know signing up that way.

Sue Anstiss:

I love that. I mentioned in the introduction the treadmill 48 hour treadmill record that you broke and I'd love to talk a little bit more about that. I mentioned in the introduction the treadmill 48 hour treadmill record that you broke and I'd love to talk a little bit more about that because I think most of us might struggle to run for an hour in the gym on a treadmill. So kind of what got you through those 48 hours? Was it the running show? Was it the national running show?

Sophie Power:

Yeah, I guess I guess rewinding it was 48 hours. Why 48 hours hours? Which was a question I asked myself many times during it. You know, I think when I run it came my head kind of I'm a 24-hour athlete for Great Britain and I'm a slow 24-hour athlete in terms of I'm much better the longer distances. So most women they're stepping up from marathon. They're stepping up from 100k. They're stepping up from 100K. I'm stepping down from.

Sophie Power:

I think what my main event would be would be about 48. Generally in the events I know we're at halfway and then I come through the field in the last 12 hours. It's how I'm built. I don't look like your typical elite marathon runner. I'm far more muscular. I'm stocky, I don't fall apart. In the same way, I do an awful lot of strength training. I'm a kind of a diesel engine really that just keeps going. So I got 48 hours is a great time and there's 48 hour world championships.

Sophie Power:

But it's so difficult for me to travel and I'd have to take a crew, I'd have to lead the family. That's really difficult to do and there's only so many times you can do it and I thought I can't do that. But what could I do instead and I think thinking about kind of Ireland and how the engagement was was amazing from people came out and ran on the streets and my tracker was live, so I'd have people waiting at the corner of roads and say, can I come for a few miles, can I join for a long time? It was just utterly amazing to engage and I do almost all my training solo because I train straight after drop off and then get back and then I work in evenings and I've got a treadmill at home and I'm very privileged to have a gym set up so I can do most things in the house while the kids are asleep. So I wanted to engage lots of people and I thought maybe this, this kind of makes sense. I could do it in a public environment and Mike Seaman, the head of the running show, is a friend of mine. They're so lovely, aren't they? Lovely team and they're right based in Guildford where I am, and, um, I thought it was quite a long time after Ireland.

Sophie Power:

I thought about this because I was writing the book and I was like it must have been months and you check your inbox and I think it was just several days after Ireland and and my coach says don't, don't make any sharp decisions. But I emailed him. I didn't hear that for a week and I forgot about it and then I got the email go, we've, we set it all up, so this is gonna be great. I was like, oh no, but I think it was really. It was really to there were 30,000 people.

Sophie Power:

Yes, it was a way to raise money for she races. It was a way to engage with people. It was a way to engage with non-trail runners. It was very logistically possible.

Sophie Power:

Ireland killed me planning the logistics and I had my amazing friend, kate strong, who is an endurance cyclist and a most amazing person, managing that, and she managed the treadmill challenge with all the signatories he needed and the crews. But it's much easier to do it in one place. And then we had um, dr jamie pure, liverpool john walsh university able to do physiological testing on me every hour because I'm in one place, so there's kind of gas masks over me and blood tests and lactate tests. And we were able to do something about the lack of research into women endurance sport. We could do something about that. So it all fit together. I didn't really think about it, to be honest, and it was so hot and in January in the NEC in Birmingham I was overheating, I had ice bandanas on, but it was just so wonderful to see all my friends and when you go to the running show there's of thousands of people and you, you miss people.

Sophie Power:

Everyone had to come to me because I couldn't move so it was lovely it got kind of Mo Farah coming over chat and Jay Pavey coming for chat and my friend Jasmine and Farah. It was brilliant. But I got so disorientated and it got to the point with I broke the record without seven hours to go and suddenly I couldn't run on a treadmill. I can run off the treadmill but I was falling off and my husband was there and he's like this is dangerous now. So you're going to just hike really quickly, just put some extra into the record, hike really quickly. So I downloaded the series of traitors. I didn't watch any traitors. I said. I always had a sign up saying do not tell me he gets kicked out, and I saved it all. And then I just found I couldn't watch tv and I normally watch tv, no treadmill, so I was just chatting to people and just having a lovely it was. It was really really special. I would absolutely not do it again, but it was really special don't.

Sue Anstiss:

You don't need to now, do you and I? We alluded also to the island run. How do you get get through those kind of points? Maybe it's different when you're doing the treadmill run, at the running show, because there's people around, although I imagine not quite so many in the middle of the night. But when you're so exhausted and you're tired and you've got miles to go, how are you training your mind? How do you deal with it, especially if you can't watch the traitors? But how do you deal with it?

Sophie Power:

What's happening in your head at those times. Well, there's so many mental tricks that you learn, but I think the most important thing is knowing why you're there. And knowing why you're there is is number one, and we can create a challenge you about Ireland, which is find something that's just outside your comfort zone. I knew I can run 24 hours. I'd done done longer. This was a perfect distance, kind of 350-ish miles for me. Can't believe you just said that Perfect distance, 356 miles. That was terrible. I know there's something wrong with me, but it's a great.

Sophie Power:

It's a great kind of, you know, three days and I knew why I was there and I knew that it was. I was there to run home to my daughter and I was there to inspire my children. I was there to put a little beacon of kind of thought in women's brains that we can do things that seem impossible, and maybe that we thought about signing up for a 10k, that we possibly could. And I knew that tens of thousands of people had a tracker and they were refreshing and seeing where I was. And one man he said good night to his daughter and came out for some miles and he said you know, she's watching, she's watching and I knew that I got to the end as I've got to get done for bedtime the kids bedtime by eight at night, because I know that there's a lot of parents are going to be up with kids looking at this tracker going. Would you please just finish so the kids will go to bed. But there's so many tricks, I think, breaking it down into chunks, and I knew that one of my best friends, kira, was waiting in Longford, just over 100 miles. So that was my first goal Get to Kira, give her a hug. I didn't realize my watch screen I set up, I had a massive garment on and it set down with miles to go.

Sophie Power:

So you're starting off and you start that first run in the trench terrain and you can see 347. You're like I can't believe I see. But then it starts ticking down and you get through. I think having Kate by my side on the bike, she's just the most wonderful, amazing athlete looking after me and I had a crew of four alongside, kind of hubby, in the camper van and so you have that support and it got to where they were giving up their time for me. They were so amazing and I wanted to succeed for them.

Sophie Power:

You just keep going and I think kind of, I'm very good at not sleeping. I think I did two hours 17 minutes sleep over three nights in total. Just crashed outside the road for 10 minute caffeine naps, 20 minutes in the back of the camper van. It's incredible what the body can do if you really want to do something. And I think that's the message. If I didn't know why I was there, I would have had absolutely no hope of finishing it, no help whatsoever. So it's when I go and pick the challenges. I've got to know exactly why I'm doing it. Because you've got to find your limits. You know your mind will give up before your legs do and if your mind wants to do something, it will make your legs comply.

Sue Anstiss:

And do you think you've always had that naturally at your essence, that resilience to keep going, or is that something that you've built over time with these events?

Sophie Power:

I think you build it. I think we have different personalities, but do I think kind of you know, 14 year old me could have run any faster in that mile Probably, if I'd actually wanted to? One of the things I kind of have is kind of in my head, this little power jar which when I get to give talks and people say, well, I could never do that, and I said, well, think about all the things that you've done before where you've taken on something you didn't think you could finish, all the amazing achievements you've had, and you kind of write them down and put them in your power jar. And where you think your limits are, you break that limit, you put that in your power jar. And where you think your limits are you break that limit, you put that in your power jar and think, right, I've done that. And you reframe it for the next challenge and go. I didn't think I could do this but I did. So look at what I'm doing now. Where are my limits? Can I do a little bit more, giving yourself that confidence that you can do that? So I think resilience has built up. I think it helped kind of working in an investment bank and having to go and do all nighters.

Sophie Power:

I think motherhood gives you incredible resilience in so many aspects and I think we overlook. I was CFO of a global marketing agency and I put the hours for my finance directors in every market as 10 till three, monday to Thursday, because I wanted a team of mums and I couldn't afford kind of full time. But I'm going to pay full time for those hours because I knew mums would just get stuff done and all the challenges they would absolutely smash them. We grow this. I think some people I'm just not. I'm just weak, I'm not resilient. I think we can help them grow and I think it's what I look to do with the children is think about them taking on challenges and them growing. When they, when they doubt themselves, reminding them of what they didn't think they could do and they did so. Maybe let's look at what you're doing now and yes, you can pass that exam because you know you've done these things before.

Sue Anstiss:

Clearly, nutrition and recovery are absolutely key to endurance training, endurance racing. So where do you feel people generally go wrong in those areas?

Sophie Power:

I think when you come to 24-hour running, it is an absolute science and if you don't eat, you can't move. I think people have not fueled their training enough. I've struggled with my body image for decades and it's something I've had to deal with, really addressed since I had my daughter, because I don't want her to grow up feeling as I did and not properly feeling. Training has been one of them and thinking well, I'm only an hour from home, you know I won't have that extra snack because I can then create a deficit and trying to lose some weight, and so I need that snack because I need to see my body as a tool that I need to fuel it properly. I think during the events it's eating soon enough. Sometimes people wait until they need to. I mean, I feel, within the first 20 minutes of any run, any event, fueling every hour, looking at what you can keep in, having backup options. When you go to ultras, you've got like a picnic table of food and something's going to work. But if you only practice on using one thing but I think sodium is a new one that people don't understand I nearly lost my life in the middle of the cambodian jungle, having hypernutrimia on ultra.

Sophie Power:

I drank too much water. Yeah, I didn't replace my salts. My sodium level was 108 and it should have been 130 and I was helicoptered out. So I'm very scientific about salt and you need a lot more than often these replacement capsules have. So I need a thousand milligrams, or a gram of salt, a gram of sodium, per litre that I drink, and making sure I'm absolutely replacing.

Sophie Power:

All of that is really difficult for people to think about. There's a lot of maths involved in these environments. I have an Excel spreadsheet for everything this. This is where the accountant accountant in me gets very happy. Everything is an Excel spreadsheet. My caffeine I bought a little model to model half-life of caffeine and how much I could have before. You know kind of everything went wrong inside. But I think it's it's eating enough, it's drinking enough, it's taking enough salt and, more than anything, listening to the body and you know, racing, as did kind of 30 degree, 33 degree heat, 100k kind of at the weekend, kind of it's people dropping like flies because they just assumed that they could run the same pace at 30 degree heat that they could do at 15 degrees and that's just not the case.

Sue Anstiss:

Another incredible race. So, in terms of looking back at all those races, if you had to choose now which would be the the most meaningful, or that your kind of greatest personal achievement, I think Ireland is so special because of the connection to the family and the team were together and I think seeing the family at the end and and finishing it it's.

Sophie Power:

It was so beautiful, it was so wonderful and I was struggling so much because I had the early stages kind of heat exhaustion. We went from torrential rain for a couple of days into the last day, being so hot that I couldn't control my body temperature. I was just too tired to control it. So we were chuckling me with water and icing me down and doing everything we could lots of Mr Whippy's ice lollies. I think it was where I I it was where I realized that this was an achievement and I think we always just compare to others and it's well, this person can run this and I don't even know how fast.

Sophie Power:

I'd run a marathon because I don't run them and it's not part of my training, it's. I might run London next year. I should probably run a marathon Because it's fun. But I often have a lack of confidence in myself. I think it's when I did Ireland and and the lady who had the record before me, mimi Anderson, is one of the greatest British ultra runners of all time. She's my absolute idol. She's phenomenal and to break her record was very special, so I think that's Ireland how is she?

Sue Anstiss:

how was Mimi about it she?

Sophie Power:

was so she was so helpful. I think this is the community of women helping women. You know, every question I had about it, about the route, she answered. I took her route and she she said it was a very special record to her and that she'd shared a bit of a tear, but she was so supportive she was tracking the whole way and you know we don't own records, we just hold them for next person.

Sophie Power:

And I've already kind of had people saying, um, you know, tell me about it, like what was it? And if there's someone taking on that record, I'm going to be absolutely behind them and hoping that we can do it to push forward the boundaries of a female endurance. And that's what's exciting. The idea that someone would take it on to me is exciting, that I could use everything that I learned and the mistakes that I made to help someone else do it. It doesn't take away from me that I could use everything that I learned and the mistakes that I made to help someone else do it. It doesn't take away from me that I broke the record someone beating it. It's just exciting that someone else would then get to beat it, absolutely.

Sue Anstiss:

And you've mentioned the marathon there as kind of potentially London Marathon in the future, but other events and races on your bucket list at all?

Sophie Power:

Oh gosh, I'd love to go to the states and race one of their western states type races just for the aid stations and experience the cultures. I think what what the aid station is like? When you say that it's just the cheering stations and the food it's about, I mean, ultras are just a long. I sell ultras to so many people. It's like marathon. No one talks to each other, you just keep going straight. Ultras is an as a long day picnic, um, there's just great food and I love, I love food and cakes, just whatever you want. There's burgers and tacos at stations.

Sophie Power:

I was like I could definitely do that, I think, with she races I'm lucky kind of next year looking at going out to some of the the races, um, likely as becky stan, and really understanding the, the running culture out there and there's so much that women have in common everywhere in the world but there are so many differences that we have. So how can she races develop? So, getting out to some of these races, more mountains, there's definitely some more barbeques kind of up my sleeve that we're thinking about big adventures because that's fun. I think races are great, but I don't like racing other people and I've realized that wherever I come in a race doesn't really matter, because it's who shows up from start line and you know you come first. It's amazing, it's really fun kids love a trophy but it doesn't drive me. And I think this is where running for Great Britain drives me, because I'm running for my country and I'm running a team and that's really special to me and I know that I need that to break my limits and so challenges are something. That's for another reason that will help me break my limits.

Sophie Power:

If you put me in a marathon, I don't care and you have to know what drives you and some people they love that feeling of a marathon pd and I don't think it would excite me to push myself. So I think it's really learning. What excites me. I think the experiences of some of these races and what I can learn from them and learn from working with the organizers and discovering new places and eventually taking some of my kids around to kind of pace me. I'd love, I'd love, you know, the boys to start kind of pacing legs on things. But Ultramarine's exploded and I think it's. It's exciting to see more people kind of take it on and have those benefits from it.

Sophie Power:

But yeah, it's, it's an I don't know kind of answer, kind of I'll see what kind of comes up, but definitely planning some adventures, exploring some new races, but never taking it too seriously, I think, because I'm glad I'm not an elite athlete, I'm not glad I'm not sponsored, I'm glad this isn't my job, because that would take the fun away. And when you're dealing with motherhood and the juggle of everything, I can't be on kind of 52 weeks a year. And you know I've got so long to the world and I can do a three weeks a year and I've got so long to the world and I can do a three-month focus, but I've got to have downtime and I've got to have time where I can focus on everything else. So it's a juggle but it's a fun one and I'm excited I think I look forward to. Then there's women I know that are in their 70s, absolutely smashing races.

Sophie Power:

I was going to ask how long, how long do you think you'll keep running for? I mean, my goal is to be running when I'm 80. And that's where looking after my body now is one of the most important things I can do and the fully fueling and the strength and the recovery I mean. Ireland took me eight weeks to recover from and my body got back quicker, but my nervous system wasn't recovered. And so looking at some of the data the data on the blood data like really understanding making sure I'm recovering.

Sophie Power:

You can't really bet too many matches. There's only so many times. I think I can run the length of a country, but I yeah, I'm desperate. I see these. My friend Edda I met her in Bhutan and and in Cambodia and she's traveling around the world. She's breaking records for women over 70 doing 24 hour races. She's always racing and I look to her and think I want to be you when I grow up. So that's the goal, but it takes so much to get there. But if I take it too seriously now, I'm not going to get there.

Sue Anstiss:

I love it, I love it and I'm so excited about your book. Is it January next year?

Sophie Power:

it's coming, it's coming out in January at the run show. At the run show oh of course, lovely, I love that I agreed to do it.

Sophie Power:

I agreed to do. I wrote half five years ago after UTMB and you're it doesn't see the right time, and I was like I felt that that was the highlight of my life, that kind of chapter in there. And then something said to me you have another chapter to write and I would have no idea. The last kind of five years of now another baby running for Great Britain. She races. And so Gareth kind of boomsbury came out to me on the when I was on the treadmill. It's quite hard to say no or think clearly when you're on the treadmill. I think it was the second day as well, which is really mean and I just thought this is the right time. So, yeah, we're going to launch it, I think at the running show um next year fantastic and I I read my.

Sue Anstiss:

I think probably my favorite book this year was Ultra Women by Lily Cantor and Emma Wilkinson. For me, an extraordinary book because I think it answered so many questions that I had around women and their potential and why women are doing better than men and many of these ultra events and kind of overturning, but in a fantastic way of alongside people's stories and everything about that. So is that kind of what you're hoping to bring people into the world of ultra running? To explain more, what might we get from the book?

Sophie Power:

Oh, I love ultra running. I love it. It's a phenomenal book. I think I'm one of the chapters.

Sue Anstiss:

You are, you are.

Sophie Power:

I've known you a long time and it's fun, but I think it's this. This book isn't about the science, I think it's. It's hard to say what do you write a book on? And originally it was going to be kind of life lessons and things and but then I said I'm going to write a book about all my running exploits, but I think it's very much a book to make people think twice and how I've gone on my journey and what the lessons I've learned and what I can pass on. And my goal is that every woman, every man reading this book thinks that they can do more than they thought before. And there's definitely few races in there and I think, hoping to everyone to think they can do more than they did before but also advocate for others and how to advocate for others, and that we need to bring everyone along this journey journey and we have a right to these feelings of taking part in sport and so, yeah, I hope that's what it does.

Sophie Power:

There's a lot of gory details about ultramarathons and the nearly dying and the Sahara, how everything kind of came about, and a lot about motherhood and getting back and the struggles after having the children. And then to performance and running for Great Britain in the 24 hours and pushing limits now. So it's a story, but there's a lot during the lessons out which is really important to me. I think sometimes I read a book and it's a lovely story, but I want to take something to my own life and learn something and that's how I've tried to write it.

Sophie Power:

So it's um, it's exciting, it's, it's, it's quite frightening. Putting yourself out there and I think, making myself understand how I got to where I got to has been, I guess, free therapy in a way, if people I think it'll explain a lot about kind of my background growing up and a lot of the, I would say, the privileges I had growing up being able to read an OS map because my cousin was a scout leader, and how I've used that to do ultras now and how I need to then understand that other women don't have that and how do we then get that, that understanding and making events more inclusive, because not everyone is going into a race knowing how to read an OS map, be comfortably outdoors and know their first aid, etc. So yeah, they'll say off top of me, but it's, yeah, it's going to be quite scary. It's going to be very scary to put it out there.

Sue Anstiss:

Very exciting.

Sophie Power:

I can't wait, I really can't wait, I guess just finally in terms of how success has defined and changed you over the years. What does success look like for you today? Kind of on and off the running trails, I've had to work this out over the last few years and I think success used to be something very different and I think when I was in the corporate life you're on that road to and I would see over tech company and being very successful a very, very young CFO of very large business divisions, and I thought that was success and I thought prestige and corporate success, and I realized that none of that actually matters to me, and it does to some people. I think success to me is certainly balance, is certainly raising a happy family, a happy, healthy family, but the thing that matters to me most is helping others, and helping others, you know, succeed and the best thing that happens is when someone asked me some advice and you take it and they, they complete a challenge that they couldn't do, and they come back and you see this amazing smile on their face and for me it's it's very much breaking down barriers for other women and and that's what, that's what makes me happy, that's what success is and I'm grateful. I know that.

Sophie Power:

I think this is where that photo brought this out. I'm not sure would I have ever worked that out. I mean, I ran a social impact tech company kind of cleaning polluted air and that was great. But I think the path I'm on now is fascinating and I think expanding that to outside sport will be really interesting. And how do we? The learnings from she races and the change we've been able to drive on very limited resources but through very good strategy globally and into other areas is, yeah, it's really exciting.

Sue Anstiss:

I hope you enjoyed hearing from Sophie. She almost makes me want to put my trainers on and start running distances again. If you'd like to hear from other extraordinary trailblazers. There are over 200 episodes of the Game Changers that are free to listen to on all podcast platforms or from our website at fearlesswomencouk. Our guests have included elite athletes, coaches, entrepreneurs, broadcasters, scientists, journalists and CEOs all women who are changing the game in sport.

Sue Anstiss:

As well as listening to all the podcasts on the website, you can also find out more about the Women's Sport Collective, a free, inclusive community for all women working in sport. We now have over 13,000 members from across the world, so please do come and join us. The whole of my book Game On the Unstoppable Rise of Women's Sport is also free to listen to on the podcast. Every episode of Series 13 is me reading a chapter of the book. Thank you once again to Sport England for backing the Game Changers and the Women's Sport Collective with a National Lottery Award, and to Sam Walker at what Goes On Media, who does such an excellent job as our executive producer. Thank you also to my brilliant colleague, kate Hannan, who works with me at Fearless Women. You can find the Game Changers on all podcast platforms, so please do follow us now to ensure you don't miss out on future episodes. Come and say hello on social media, where you'll find me on LinkedIn and Instagram at Sue Anstis the Game Changers fearless women in sport.

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Sue Anstiss

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Sam Walker

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