Carla Ward: Game-changing leadership in women’s football

From jumpers for goalposts on a council estate to managing at the highest level of women’s football, Carla Ward’s journey is one of courage, resilience and breaking through barriers. Now leading the Republic of Ireland women’s national team with ambitions to reach the 2027 World Cup, Carla has navigated a fast rise from player to coach, defied expectations, and spoken openly about the reality of balancing a demanding football career with motherhood.

In this powerful episode of The Game Changers, Carla shares the unfiltered truth about life in football, leadership, and the challenges female coaches face in the modern game.

We talk about:

• Growing up in grassroots football when girls’ teams didn’t exist
• The emotional and brutal transition from player to manager overnight
• Building winning teams through culture, unity and belief
• Surviving the toughest jobs and proving doubters wrong
• The sacrifices of coaching and the impact on family life
• Why women coaches deserve more opportunities – and fair pay
• Leading a national side and dreaming of World Cup success

An honest and eye-opening conversation about risk-taking, resilience and the fight for equality in women’s football.

Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.

Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers

Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media

A Fearless Women production

Chapters

• 0:00 From Player to Manager: Carla's Journey
• 9:11 Playing Career Highlights
• 16:18 Transitioning to Coaching
• 25:03 Balancing Motherhood and Coaching
• 31:12 Leading Ireland's National Team
• 37:05 The Future of Women's Coaching

Transcript

Sue Anstiss: 0:03

Hello and welcome to The Game Changers. I'm Sue Anstiss, and this is the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazing women in sport who are knocking down barriers and challenging the status quo for women and girls everywhere. What can we learn from their journeys as we explore key issues around equality in sport and beyond? I'd like to start with a big thank you to our partners, sport England, who support the Game Changers podcast through a national lottery award. My guest today is Carla Ward, an English football manager who's currently leading the Republic of Ireland women's national team, with an ambition to qualify for the 2027 World Cup.

Sue Anstiss: 0:44

Carla's extensive playing career as a midfielder includes stints at Leeds, bristol, doncaster and Sheffield, along with time playing in Spain. Her most successful spell came at Sheffield FC, where she was club captain, making over 200 appearances and scoring over 100 goals. Carla then moved into coaching and had a very significant impact at women's teams at Sheffield United, birmingham City and Aston Villa, before recently taking this prestigious role with the Republic of Ireland's national team. So, Carla, your coaching and managerial journey are fascinating, but I'd like to start with your playing career, if I can. So where did it all start for you?

Carla ward: 1:29

Grew up on a council estate with a lot of boys. It's always the way, isn't it? So, yeah, I started out in a small estate in Torquay where all the boys played and it was probably the only thing that most people did, and I wasn't one to hang around with the girls when I was young, to be honest. So off I went over to the school playing fields and there was a very large field in the middle of the estate as well. So it's jumpers for goalposts and, yeah, it all started there. Really used to just love football and playing out with the boys more than anything.

Sue Anstiss: 1:58

And at what point did you realize that you had talent beyond kind of playing at that level?

Carla ward: 2:03

Yeah, I don't know. I think it's funny because when I was at school, there was a boys team. There was never a girls team. And I remember one day looking at and I'd been training, of course, but I remember looking every week the uh sign would go up of who was in the team and I would find my name was on it, and not only my name was on it, I had the captain's armband next to me, so I was thinking, oh, I'm in the boys team here. And then, from that moment on, I thought this is a possibility.

Carla ward: 2:28

And then, uh, as I grew up, I just, um, naturally just had a love for it, found, found myself you know when you find yourself like good at something that you were passionate about and I just continued that. And then, obviously, the girls team started coming along and makes me sound really old, doesn't it? But girls teams come along, and then the women's teams come along and and, um, yeah, I just kind of kept stepping up and every time that sort of, even when I was 14, then going into the seniors earlier than I should have, and then all of a sudden, you're thinking I can do something here. So, yeah, I always loved it. It was just a very, very strong passion and I just continued to play everywhere I went. And who were?

Sue Anstiss: 3:07

your kind of co-op, who were the peers at that time as you came through those younger ages.

Carla ward: 3:13

So I played down. Funnily enough, I played down in Uki and Torquay, both in Devon and Cornwall, so there wasn't there wasn't too much going on there. But then when I went up to Bristol and I was playing with the likes of Siobhan Chamberlain and Katie Holtham and Shelley Cox at the time, and then when I went to Leeds, it was a star-studded team. There was me, steph Alton and Jade Moore. In midfield there was Ellen White and Sue Smith, up top there was Lucy Ward playing. That team there was unbelievable, you know, there was just some fascinating players and there was just some fascinating players. And so, yeah, I've been really lucky and blessed to have played with some unbelievable talent, some real champions and winners. So I've learned a lot along the way. But yeah, I think deep down I was always in a position where I wanted to stay in it my whole life.

Sue Anstiss: 4:05

And I listed a range of clubs there, and you've added Newquay and Torquay to that as well too. So was that common for women in, I guess, in that era almost to move around to play in that many clubs to get those opportunities?

Carla ward: 4:11

We were very yeah, I was very young growing up in, you know, small towns like Torquay and Newquay, and you know there was. It was quite funny actually, because whilst Newquay is a million miles away from everywhere, we actually had a team that did tremendously well and we actually got up as high as the Southern Division, which, if you remember, it used to be the Premier League, and then the North and the South, and we got as high as the South. Then we had a year where a lot of us went off to university and that crumbled, bless him, and then they plummeted back down. But yeah, that was more growing up at a very, very early age. So, um, yeah, just enjoyable really. But I think you have to, don't you, as a kid, just get get to where you can play at the best level, and then those other teams I'm thinking of the ones that you were kind of then played in that semi-professional era.

Sue Anstiss: 4:58

Was that a natural side for women to be moving across to, to so many different teams?

Carla ward: 5:05

um, yeah, I think at the time. Yeah, because, look, there was no money in it. Let's be honest, I remember when I um first went to Bristol they were. I went to Bath University and the head of football there was there the manager at Bristol City Women who were in the Premier League at the time and he said he wanted me to come and play. You know, he thought I could make the step up and I remember thinking it's 50 pound a week like unbelievable and that sounds crazy. Right, but that's what it was. And all of a sudden you're getting 50 pound a game and you're thinking, oh, I'm getting paid for this. Then it starts to get a little bit more serious. So then it's less moving around, really, isn't it? But but certainly before the money was involved, yeah, there was probably a little bit more movement. I would say.

Sue Anstiss: 5:48

And were there any clubs, particularly that stand out, that you really loved playing for? As you look back, was there a culture or where you really felt?

Carla ward: 5:56

Yeah, I think if we're going culture, I think I'd say Sheffield FC, because the manager there was Helen Mitchell, and she created an environment. I would like to say that I pride a lot of my managerial style on what I learned there, just from the way that she managed people, the way that she got the best out of us. I mean we shouldn't have been winning the way we were let's be honest with the team we had but we did, because we had an unbelievable togetherness, we had a willingness to look after each other and we had a culture that was a wholehearted culture where we would die for each other, you know. So I think that that was probably the one that well, it says it all. When I stayed there for so long, that really honed in on who I was.

Sue Anstiss: 6:43

And have you seen the game evolve, the women's game evolve as you thought it might do? If you look back to when you started playing, or even when you were playing at Bristol and at Bath Uni, is it where you thought it might get to from there?

Carla ward: 6:55

Honestly, I always knew that it would get there, but I didn't maybe think to this level. Like I was sat watching, obviously I've not missed a game of the Euros the geek I am I was sat watching last night the Sweden game and then the Germany game. I sit there and I look at the crowds and it's packed out. Then I compare it to. I went to the men's Euros on the 21s as part of my pro license. Earlier on in the month there was a couple of fouls in here and there at games. You sat there thinking the women's game is is really gone somewhere here. So it's uh, it's unbelievable to be part of. Did I think that that would be? That would happen? You probably hoped, but I don't think you really believed.

Sue Anstiss: 7:35

Yeah, yeah, and as you look back now over your kind of playing career, what are those momentous highlights, what are the real kind of moments that you reflect?

Carla ward: 7:44

on, I think, with sheffield fc getting promotion into the wsl. I think that was a moment. You know, 94th minute, winner uh, against portsmouth most intense, terrible game of football, by the way, it really was. You know two teams that had been excellent all season. The pressure just mounted and it was just an awful game of football. But we managed to get over the line in the dying seconds to go up after a lot of hard work, because nobody gave us a chance. So I would think that would be one. And then are we talking playing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm moving on to talk about the coaching.

Carla ward: 8:17

The other one, I would probably say for Lincoln, in the semi-finally FA Cup against Arsenal, packed out central bank and 5,000 people there, which was a lot of people at the time. And I just remember saying to the players in the dressing room we've got to lay a glove on these and make it really difficult for them. And I said I talked about big tackles early, and then you've got Kelly Smith, rachel Yankee rolling out and let me tell you now you couldn't tackle them, which couldn't get anywhere near them, and they were a completely different level. But the experience was unbelievable. And I tell you what I say all the time, if Kelly Smith was now in this day and age, what she'd be worth would be monumental. She really would be. She was, she was a fascinating player. So I'd say that game just because it was David B Goliath and it felt like that out there. But what, what an opportunity and what was it?

Sue Anstiss: 9:10

I've spoken to Kelly on the game changes. For one, I guess I didn't really follow football as closely as I do now when she was playing, really. So what was it about her as a player? Would you say that that would make her, as you say, such an exceptional player if she was playing?

Carla ward: 9:24

today. Oh look, she's rolls royce. She really is. I used to absolutely love watching her and I I'm glad she's still in the game to pass that experience back. I really am, because I just don't think this generation understands how good she was. You know, she'd glide around a pitch, she'd make things happen. Sometimes she wouldn't need to get out of second gear, but yeah, she was somebody that I just absolutely loved watching and admired massively. So, yeah, look, if she was here in this day and age, the money she'd be worth would be outrageous. So yeah, it was a horrible game because we got beat 5-1. But look, we got on the score sheet and we got to play against them in their absolute prime. But yeah, she's the best way to describe her. I thought she was a Rolls Royce player.

Sue Anstiss: 10:08

Absolutely. Did you always know that coaching would be your next step? You said that whole desire to stay in football forever. Or was there a moment that you realised.

Carla ward: 10:19

I think there was a moment I don't think I'd ever really thought about it and I had my. I sadly had an injury which required spinal surgery. How old were you then? Oh, good question, Late 20s. So I started my badges through that and I was coaching Chef Uni just part-time bit of money, bit of experience, loved the game, chef uni just part-time. Bit of money, bit of experience, loved the game. And then I quickly, then in 2015, did it again.

Carla ward: 10:51

So then I had my second lot of spinal surgery and at that point I'm thinking I've not got long here and I had doctors kind of saying you shouldn't be considering playing. I had one unbelievable physio that was like we're going to get you back. But then when I came back, you know when the youngsters start going past you and you think I'm not running this, I'm not going to dictate in this game anymore, and that was a real moment of what does next look like? And I still probably didn't know. And then I was just leaving Sheffield FC and I was about to go to Doncaster Bells and play for Neil Redfern in one final season and try and win WSL2 and then retire, and I was on my way back from training the very first night I went training and I was on my way back and I had a voicemail. And the voicemail was from Kevin McCabe, who was the owner at Sheffield United, and it basically said look, we'd like to talk to you. And I thought, what's he want to talk to me for?

Carla ward: 11:45

Anyway, I went and sat down the next day with him and some of the board at Chef United and they basically said look, we want to be forward thinking with the women, we want to go for promotion, we need to put a bid together, we need somebody that really has those expertise in helping us deliver that. We want that to be you. And I'm sat there thinking right and what's it look like in return? You know, I can help you with a bid, I can give you all this knowledge. Well, what does it look like for me? And they said well, what do you want to do? And I said, oh, you know, I want to. I want to coach, I want to continue my coaching journey.

Carla ward: 12:27

So the idea was that collectively, we put together the bid and then, if we make it, I go into the head coach role and get a mentor whilst I do my A license. So that was that off we went, got to work, big group of us presented it at Wembley and then off we went there. We managed to make it and I think at that point I thought I'm about to be a head coach in the WSL2. Here I'm like a fish out of water. I've only just finished kicking a ball around and I retired overnight and I couldn't quite grasp it. I cried my eyes out some nights and I was thinking what am I doing here, like I've just stopped playing?

Sue Anstiss: 12:54

football. So you play a coach. You play a coach at the time or you're entitled yeah, on paper.

Carla ward: 13:00

Yeah, I didn't kick a ball for them though, so so, yeah, it really happened quite quickly. But the moment I had that phone call was the moment I thought if I don't take this opportunity, somebody else will. So it was worth the sleepless nights. I did get quite upset for a week or two, thinking I'm not a player, where's my career? Just gone. But it was the right thing to do and I had to take that opportunity. So so I did, and what you know.

Sue Anstiss: 13:25

Kind of hats off to him for seeing that in you. Have you spoken to him about that, I guess, since that time, as to what it was that saw him to identify you and give you that opportunity?

Carla ward: 13:35

yeah, he's um, he's a really good guy. I keep in contact with him, even though he's left Chef United. He's actually opened. We opened up a um coffee shop in scarborough. He owns a scarborough group and he opened up a coffee shop and called it hartley's, as in my little girl. So we sometimes try to get down there and uh, yeah, although I haven't seen him for a couple of years.

Carla ward: 13:55

But yeah, he's um, I did used to ask that. But I think, look, I had a I've. I had a business in Sheffield, a t-shirt printing company, for many years and I supplied quite a lot of sports teams in and around and I think he probably knew I had the business acumen as well as the sports side and he probably saw me as well connected in the game and I think that's maybe where he wanted to tap into Little did he realize I was going to say, look, I would like a piece of this. But look, it ended up working for both. And, um, yeah, it really helped me get off the mark in my coaching career because I was thrown in at the deep end.

Sue Anstiss: 14:31

Put it that way and how long were you there for before you moved on to other roles?

Carla ward: 14:36

uh, what was I? Four years at chef united, yeah, and I had Mick Wadsworth as my mentor, who he is fascinating, obviously it's Bobby Robson's number two. For many, many years I was very fortunate he was head of the academy at Chef United. I had a very good support network around me. I think Chef United really allowed me to learn, grow, make mistakes, and I made many of them, because when you go from a player to a manager, anyone that thinks it's easy, it has got to be the hardest thing I experienced. And because you're not a player anymore, you're not the joker in the dressing room. You've got to quickly change. So Chef United allowed me to make mistakes, grow with them and give me a real platform to step into the world that I wanted to be in.

Sue Anstiss: 15:21

And how tough was that. When you think about that whole being a player, being part of a team and I imagine some of the hardest parts are making those tough calls of dropping players, you know, or letting players go all together how have you personally dealt with kind of that challenge of being a manager?

Carla ward: 15:37

It was really tough at the start because we're talking about your friends, that you played with your friends, that you know your teammates, and that was really tough and I didn't handle it very well actually, when I look back, I made a lot of mistakes in those first couple of years and being too close and to turn too much motion, or yeah, yeah, I'd say so.

Carla ward: 15:55

And then you'd have conversations where you're a teammate being not a teammate. You had to. You have to really change those dynamics quickly, which is difficult when you've been in the dressing room with them for so long, because I recruited a lot of people that I knew and I played with that. I made a mistake as well. So I made an awful lot of mistakes, but it taught me quite quickly because, you know, I had to change, I had to adapt. So, yeah, that was difficult but, like I said, I think I'm a big believer in the quicker you make a mistake, the quicker you get up and you learn. So I made an awful lot of mistakes and then I learned from it and managed to move us forward.

Sue Anstiss: 16:30

And how would you describe your coaching philosophy now as it's kind of evolved in a few sentences?

Carla ward: 16:36

I'm very big on people because I believe if you can get somebody smiling, enjoying themselves and playing with a confidence, I always think you can get a couple of percent more. So I'm somebody that likes to look after people. I would like to think I'd be known as somebody that would go the extra mile for individuals, and people would probably sum me up as a manager of I care an awful lot. I treat them as 22, 23 daughters, but then want to play with a smile on their face because, like I said, I think if I go back to the Sheffield FC days, I think I played the best, best football of my career, based on the fact I was really happy, you know. So I would probably say that would sum me up with the ball.

Carla ward: 17:15

We like playing. With the ball. We like to be exciting. Of course I know, um, you know I've been criticizing the past from a defensive side of the game. That maybe needs a little bit more focus. But I've always been someone that likes to play with the ball and sometimes that that probably hurts you the other way. But you can't say any of my teams haven't been exciting so far. Can you see that?

Sue Anstiss: 17:34

in other teams as you watch. You say you're sat here watching Euros at the moment. Can you see when you feel teams are happy and enjoying being on a pitch versus those that maybe aren't? Yeah, don't ask me who doesn't look happy in a minute, but I was not going to throw you under the bus then and ask the question.

Carla ward: 17:50

But I think you can, I think there's a sense of um, and maybe that isn't always necessarily to do with the manager, but that also could be to do with the dynamics in the team, dynamics between groups of players or staff. You know, there's there's always reasons why. You know players are always gonna dislike managers. It's funny because, um, one of the players started singing recently. What's the song? Players are only happy when they're playing. Players love you when they're playing. Right, that's a fact. They dislike you when they're not. That's just normal, it's a way of life. But yeah, you can always. You can always gauge's just normal, it's a way of life, but yeah, you can always gauge if there's some unrest in a team.

Sue Anstiss: 18:27

And how do you help them become more resilient? Because I know you have managed some teams through some really tough circumstances on and off the pitch and whether it's finances and where they are promotion, relegation and so on and still delivering those results. So what do you think is the key to building that resilience and, as you mentioned, that unity with the team as well.

Carla ward: 18:46

Yeah, I do think it's a togetherness. I think it's a doing. Maybe things outside the box, um, I'd get trying to get players to be vulnerable of each other, which is a lot, lot easier at club than it is international, because you have them for very little time. So I think at club it's a lot easier to to build that. It's a lot easier to to get people together to do different things. You can do lots of things in the classroom. You can do lots of things on the outdoors.

Carla ward: 19:10

You can there aren't football related, and I think that people do laugh at me actually particularly some of the coaches that have recently worked with me because they say you always find a way to make people smile, you always find a way to get these things. You always find a way to get these things in. But I think you have to because they're around each other. Do you know? Footballers see each other more than they see their family. So you have to try and create that somehow, which, like I said, is a lot easier at club than it is country, because you see them for a lot less. But it's a belief, and creating that belief and confidence in each other is key.

Sue Anstiss: 19:44

I think I'm going to move on to talk about that transition away from the club game and what you're doing now. But I just want to touch on last summer and you had this amazing experience going out to to Paris, the Paris Olympics. Can you tell us about how that opportunity came about and what your involvement was there?

Carla ward: 20:00

Yeah. So I was in Dubai on holiday and it was interesting because on the last I think it was second to last day of the season we played Chelsea and Emmerwood said to me, would you want to do a bit of scouting in the summer? And I was like, yeah, no problem, didn't really know what it entailed. And then I was on holiday in Dubai. It was Emma Hayes we should say yeah, sorry, yeah, and I'd had a few cocktails, being honest, and she had messaged me saying do you want to come to the Olympics and do some scouting? I said yeah, sounds good, but I don't think I was really understanding. Then she put me in contact with somebody else and then I said, oh, I've got a holiday and then I could probably make it. And she was like we need someone to join us in camp and I thought, hold on, a minute, I've misread this situation massively. I've got an opportunity here to go to the Olympics and watch the very best work. What am I thinking? So I cancelled that holiday.

Carla ward: 21:04

First period I was with the team and it was fascinating, and then I went off to scout games and report on the opposition, which was interesting actually, because I got to watch an awful lot of Brazil and then, once the semifinal was done, it was straight back after that semifinal, straight back to meet back up with them, report on Brazil, and then we had the final and yeah, it was an unbelievable opportunity. I mean, I say it all the time Emma's been great for me. She really has, and you know she's guided me. She's helped me when I've really needed it. Early on, when I had some tough times at Birmingham, she really guided me and helped me through those difficult moments. So to get to watch her and see why she is the very best, you know, cemented everything I believed. So yeah, it was a fascinating opportunity.

Sue Anstiss: 21:50

And what a great opportunity for you to go and watch that. You know put fully attention on players and seeing how they play, but you're learning from that experience too, A hundred percent. I mean, Emma said to me I think it was night one or two no-transcript and I mentioned that you'd coached a number of different clubs, different circumstances, but as you look back on that I asked you earlier about your kind of proudest playing moment In a club environment, managing a club what are you most proud of your achievements?

Carla ward: 22:43

there, I'd say two. One keeping Birmingham up, because you know, no one give us a chance. I remember sitting in my back garden that's in front of me right now and I said to a good friend of mine you know, do I take this? And everybody said, don't take it, don't take the job. You know this could ruin you. And I said, well, it's a win-win, right. So if I keep them up, I make a name for myself. If we get relegated, everyone thinks we're going to get relegated. So this is a win-win. And I thought no one's giving me a chance here, like, let's go for it. So that's why I took it. So to stay up was just an unbelievable feeling. It really was.

Carla ward: 23:19

And then the second one would be finishing fifth, and finishing off with a two-nil win away at Arsenal. To finish fifth at Villa was an unbelievable achievement because everybody thought we spent a lot of money and we really didn't. What we did was bring in players that weren't playing at their clubs, give them that confidence again. A lot of them had big pay drops, but they came into an environment that we allowed them to be themselves, be confident, play of a smile on their faces, and we ended up finishing fifth, and, and that was huge, so I would say, those two moments for sure.

Sue Anstiss: 23:54

And we're going to come on to talk about the work that you're doing now. But you've been really open and honest about the challenge of balancing a full-on, super intense career with personal life, especially as a mother, you know, and it can be so challenging and it's going to impact on your mental well-being and your personal life generally. So just to kind of take you back to, I guess, the decisions that you made around that time, having had the success that you've said you clearly had success with teams, but but why did you kind of choose to step away from that?

Carla ward: 24:25

Yeah, that was a really, really tough decision. I think it started around Christmas time and my little girl sort of said mommy, are you off tomorrow? And I said no, baby, you are. And she said when am I going to spend some time with you? And that, as a mother, cut deep and that was really, really difficult. And I remember going to work thinking I tell everybody what I do is for my little one, everything you do for your children right, you want to give your children the best way in life, best opportunities in life. But here I am working 24, seven, never seeing her, and that was really tough and I think it kept eating away at me and I don't think I actually realized until I left the impact that was having tough and I think it kept eating away at me and I don't think I actually realized until I left the impact that was having on me mentally.

Carla ward: 25:10

And I went to the club probably a couple of months later I think February, march and I said I want to have a conversation about an early termination. I really feel like I'm mentally burning out. I want to see my daughter not seeing her enough and, to be honest, aston Villa is a football club. They're a wonderful football club. They really are treated me so very well and basically said look, can we help you, can we get a nanny? Can we, you know, help with? They give me so many options.

Carla ward: 25:40

Now the problem is I split from Hartley's other mother four years ago now, after a long time. So I think moving Hartley is not possible, moving myself is not possible. So you know as much as Aston Villa were unbelievable, you know, to try and help it just wasn't possible. And I went back and forth them trying to ask me to stay me, almost pleading with their help. I actually asked Unai in a meeting one day. Unai came in and he was really good, actually helped me, because he was in a similar situation when he left Arsenal just needed to breathe, needed to go away, needed to have some time, and that probably helped me with the board.

Carla ward: 26:22

But they were, were great, they really were, they supported me, um, and then they finally agreed I think it was around what was it? April, may time they finally agreed and then, yeah, when that final day passed, which was rather than emotional, it was like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders. I went the very next day on holiday with my daughter and I thought I'm going on holiday without having to work 24 seven, because I don't care what anyone says, the off season is not an off season for coaches and managers. So I, um, I thought wow. And then it was probably after the Olympics again, when I got back from the Olympics I went on holiday with the little one and at that point I thought I've got some time with you here, I can go to swimming, I can go to dance, I can go and be the mum that I haven't been. And, um, it was tough but it was the right decision. And at what point?

Sue Anstiss: 27:17

then did you find out, or they found you, in terms of this national role with the Irish women?

Carla ward: 27:24

yeah, it was around Christmas time.

Carla ward: 27:26

Funnily enough, there'd been another country that I'd spoken to a couple of weeks before but just didn't fit where I was in life.

Carla ward: 27:33

So I was out for dinner and my mum came up for the Christmas markets and we were sat having dinner and I just got a call saying that we're going through a process if somebody would like to speak to basically the interviews in a couple of days time, and I was thinking this is a quick turnaround. So Christmas cancelled almost, and you have to put them presentations together, etc. So, yeah, from the first call on the 18th of December to getting appointed on the 8th of January, it was three stages quite intense. Yeah, I know a joke, christmas was cancelled but there was a lot of work to be done in that period. So got down to the final few, which was in London, face to face, and then, yeah, got offered the job that evening after the final interview. So I was delighted, to be honest, because I knew that it was the next step in my career, but also what would be worthwhile for my personal life and my family life.

Sue Anstiss: 28:31

And has it brought you that international management, the better work-life balance that you'd anticipated?

Carla ward: 28:37

Yeah, like you know, sounds daft, but to be the mum that goes and watches her swimming, watches her dance, watches her basketball, watches her football, you know I, I love it and I love just sitting there, just being a mom to her and being able to do things, and it's great, you know, just having a weekend with her, which is unheard of. I mean, this summer is the first summer, because last summer I had the Olympics, but this summer is the very first summer since Harley's been born that I'm actually going to have time with her. So, yeah, it's been really, really good. I've loved it. And she comes to Dublin sometimes, which is good. She gets treated like an absolute princess when she goes there. So, yeah, it's absolutely fitted my work-life balance for sure.

Sue Anstiss: 29:17

And from the managerial experience in that process. You did just allude to it earlier of having less time with players. But how else is it different in managing that national team versus managing a club?

Carla ward: 29:28

yeah, it's. It is different in so many ways. Like I like to build relationships and that is me in a nutshell there just isn't enough time. They're in for nine, ten days. They're out of there. Then you've got to manage everything in between. From an organization point of view, from a nation point of view, I do miss that day-to-day interaction. I think that's probably the toughest part of it. But I've teed up a lot of coaches for pre-season to to come in and have a look and you know you keep ticking over, but that is difficult because you're normally talking day-to-day. There's also only a couple of us that are full-time, so then all then all my staff are all working somewhere else. So that's also tough because if you need to get things done, you're almost on your own with that. But that's just part and parcel. But it's certainly a different dynamic. Let me tell you.

Sue Anstiss: 30:16

And different pressures. In that it's a national team, Does it feel different the weight on your shoulders and Norma's not your nation also?

Carla ward: 30:23

Yeah, and you know, know, you've got two games and then you haven't got time. If you, if you need to put something right, you don't gotta wait so long to put things right. That's difficult but yeah, the way the nation, the pressures from the media are very different. You know, I have exceptional relationships with the media, particularly over here.

Sue Anstiss: 30:40

Good, good relationships you say exceptional, yeah yeah, yeah, I would say so.

Carla ward: 30:45

yeah, I can't tell you. You need the media. Let's be really honest you need the media, they need you. You've got to work with them, but it's taken some time because you're only seeing the Irish media in bits and pieces. It's probably taken longer to develop those relationships because you don't have as much interaction with them. But I'm starting to build on that now and that's important because, like I said, I think everybody wants the same goal, right, and that's to see the nation, the national team, win and be successful. But in order to do that, you need everybody on board and what are your kind of future aspirations?

Sue Anstiss: 31:20

I mentioned introduction. Obviously had a great kind of appearance in 2023 at the fifth women's world cup. But what are your realistic expectations for the team?

Carla ward: 31:31

yeah, look, I think, um, we want to go, we want to get to the world cup. We know that's going to be difficult. Only 11 european teams make that. So we know that's going to be difficult. But look, we've got a group of players that hungry. Look, they are so passionate, that irish national team. They really are so passionate about playing for their country, desperate to play for their country. So we, we've got every chance with that. You know, I've talked about it before. You know, some people might not give us a chance, but within we'll all give each other a chance and we'll give it everything we've got to try and get there. Beyond that, I think we have to qualify for the euros. No ifs or buts would be my words. Nobody, nobody else's words. But I think we absolutely have to make the next Euros. So they're sort of the short and medium term, and then we'll assess where we're at, because you know what it's like. I don't think managers last too long in the game anymore, do they.

Sue Anstiss: 32:20

If you don't have success. And how much are you? Because I was thinking, obviously you deal with this team that comes to you, but it's the whole pathway, isn't it? Where those players come from, the system, the support. So how much are you in? Are you just like presented with here, are your players, or how much are you able to get involved with where they're coming from and what's being done to generate and bring those players forward?

Carla ward: 33:04

Yeah, I'm quite hands-on. I like to get my eyes across everything. I think one of the things we've been looking at quite deeply is the League of Ireland, which is a sadly, it's a part-time league, but there is some young quality in there. The national teams have got some quality. It's just about how do we nurture them, how do we guide them, how do we make sure that they've got everything they need to step up and be a successful footballer. We also have just recruited a talent ID team that are looking at all the possibilities of who might be eligible to play for Ireland. So there's lots of different avenues.

Carla ward: 33:16

I think it's really important that we continue to look within Ireland, though, because they give the opportunity to the young girls in Ireland, because that's massive and we've got a future proof for them. But there's a lot of work that needs to be done, and we're on with that at the moment. We're discussing that, we're talking about it, but it's a big chunk of work. That's not necessarily football on the grass, but definitely a piece of work that needs to be done.

Sue Anstiss: 33:42

And we've talked about, I guess, that motherhood piece and that balance of it. It's almost I don't want to paint a negative picture, but actually it's really challenging to do those two. So do you feel football and I use football in a very generic sense of women's football is moving in the right direction in the way it's approaching coaches and players as well that want to be mothers?

Carla ward: 34:03

Yeah, I think it's got a long way to go. I think the US do it really well, you know. They have environments that allow kids to come in. They have creches, nannies. I think it's very different here. You know, I would only ever take Hartley in on an international break Never really in season because you know there's just too much going on. There isn't really everybody's full throttle.

Sue Anstiss: 34:30

And is that different? Sorry just to interrupt you there. So in terms of the us, so what you've seen, and I guess we and we used emma hayes as an example of, but that is a very different environment is that just a historical?

Carla ward: 34:34

they've seen the value in creating that supportive culture yeah, I think they must see the value in it, because I spoke to kelly chambers a couple of months ago and I was asking how life is out there with the family and she said, said best thing they've ever done. You know, the kids are looked after, the kids come into the training ground, there's a crest, they're looked after, there's a play area. They make it very, very inclusive and I think, wow, like that's something that could be introduced here. But I think we're a little bit further away than that. But I do think that the game isn't geared up yet to fully supporting women with kids. Now, I was really lucky at Aston Villa and I keep saying this they were unbelievable to me, they really were, and I think that I was really fortunate. But I know there's other clubs that aren't as open as Aston Villa. So I think maybe it's a case of club by club, what they do to help mothers and parents.

Sue Anstiss: 35:26

But it is difficult, it really is difficult and in terms of the players, we obviously there's this kind of consideration, sarah, and so much around the physical support, around motherhood and coming back to but from a coaching perspective, is there anything? Is it down to female coaches, which I don't believe it is but in terms of the system itself leading to change, I know you've talked about co-coaching as a kind of potential option. Do you feel that is something that should be?

Carla ward: 35:50

explored. Yeah, I also think the way the game's going, I think it's starting to go manager who manages the group, the organisation picks a team and then you've got the head coaches that lead your philosophy, what you want. I think the more it's going that way, the more I think that you could potentially go down that route. If I went back into WSL football, which I'm sure I will at some point, I think that that's what I would like go in as a manager, have a head coach, and then I think that takes a little bit of burden off because you can't do it all, and for years I probably thought I could and is that a bit about the investment too?

Sue Anstiss: 36:29

isn't it than having a club having that funding, but it doesn't do. They need to be full-time. I feel, when I've researched you and looked at the work that you do, god, it's more than you know. It's so many hours in the day and constantly being on call um. Is it possible to divide that between two people?

Carla ward: 36:44

Yeah, you would still work an awful lot of hours. There's no way that you wouldn't work the same amount of hours, but what it would do is release some pressure to allow you to do the management side of the job better, more strategic, probably a little bit more refined. I think that would allow then a coach to concentrate on the grass and then the manager to concentrate off the grass, and I think that could be really powerful. And even just taking a little bit of workload away is huge now in the game it really is, and in terms of being that top level coach manager?

Sue Anstiss: 37:17

how do you keep learning and evolving with modern coaching technologies? Where are you learning?

Carla ward: 37:23

Yeah, do you know what? It's something I've talked about recently actually, because, as in not publicly, but I think that in international football there's that period between and you really need to continue your brain moving right and you can't go stale. So I'm used to talking football every day, but then when you take that away, it becomes difficult. So I, on my pro license, got lots of me being me tried to tap into all the guys kind of come into environment. Um, you know, I'm going into quite a few environments this summer and I'm going to continue to do that. So have a look how people work, how people, you know, with their processes and yeah, so I think that's going to be me this summer and beyond. Really I'm going to be that annoying person tapping between clubs, so a warning to people she's come in.

Sue Anstiss: 38:12

We obviously desperately need more female coaches across sport, including football. Do you think there's enough being done to encourage players to consider transitioning to coaching? Would you encourage your players to think about that 100%.

Carla ward: 38:25

I think more so with players, because I think players live and breathe it. I think there's top players that can add so much value to the game, whether that's coaching, whether that's performance, whether that's analyst. There's so much quality to go back in the game. The only thing I would say is going from a player salary to a coach salary and people won't realize this is a massive drop and, by the way, they're going to have to do 10 times the amount of work. So that's where I remember having a conversation she won't mind me saying this, but I remember having a conversation with Jill Scott before she went into the jungle, because I was going to bring her in as a technical coach and I think the agent thought I was joking.

Carla ward: 39:05

When bring her in as a technical coach, and I think the agent thought I was joking when I said what the pay looked like. And it's bonkers. Then she goes in the jungle and then the rest is history. Right, Look at her now. She's on every single TV channel you put on. But yeah, I think there's a reality then of wow, they might want to go down the media route where you get more money. They might want to go down a different route. So, as much as I think they need to go back in, there probably needs to be a level of, there probably needs to be a conversation on the increase on coaches' wages. Yeah, yeah, being really honest, because there's a lot, a lot, a lot of work that goes in. You know it's 24-7, it's non-stop, but the average pay for a coach we're not talking a manager or head coach, we're talking a coach is very, very low, should I say?

Sue Anstiss: 39:53

And very different to the men's game, in the same way that, yeah, you're nodding.

Carla ward: 39:57

I'm nodding, yeah, because it's bonkers and we definitely want to keep these players in the game. You know there's so much knowledge out there and we need more female coaches in the game with that type of knowledge, so there needs to be something that's met halfway here and without putting you on the spot in terms of the numbers how many female head coaches or managers are there in the WSL one at the moment?

Sue Anstiss: 40:23

how you say what. What is in and out, how many? Yeah, in don't know roughly how many clubs have women leading those?

Carla ward: 40:30

roles. What have we got? So we've got Rhianne Rene, we've got West Ham, we've got Arsenal. We've got Leicester Natalia at Villa. Am I missing someone? I think that might be it at the moment.

Sue Anstiss: 40:48

And is that less than it's been in the past? Are we moving in the right direction? I'm thinking of comparing it with the Premiership Women's Rugby, where we don't have any at the moment. We had seven. So what direction? What's the direction of travel, do you feel in terms of women in those roles?

Carla ward: 41:01

I think it's fluctuating. I think it needs look in the Championship this year.

Carla ward: 41:06

Fascinating because there is a lot of female coaches yeah, yeah but the problem you've got now is, I think wsl clubs go down this data route with the european leagues. You can't compare european leagues to wsl. The wsl, for me, is hands down the best, the very best league. So I think we make this mistake of recruiting from abroad when we have got so much quality in this country. There is a huge amount of quality in terms of coaches, head coaches in the championship right now. Wsl2 yeah sorry, wsl2 changes, doesn't it like the weather? Um, so I can't wait to see some of them shine because, you know, a lot of them deserve an opportunity in the WSL and I think that we're in a good position in terms of bringing some female coaches through.

Sue Anstiss: 41:51

They just need an opportunity, like I was given the opportunity yeah, absolutely, and you've taken on roles on mentorship and supporting upcoming coaches. So what drives your passion there? And I guess you've already highlighted that, that opportunity that you've had in the past?

Carla ward: 42:07

yeah, just to just to almost give someone an opportunity that I had, but it's really funny because I can mentor someone. But then in a conversation you can take something from everybody. If you're open to learning, you can learn off every single person you meet. I believe that and I'm like that annoying sponge I want to take something from everybody, I want to listen, I want to learn and I think if you in those mentor roles, you can learn both ways, so it's win-win. But you can also give back and that's really important because I was really fortunate with Emma. So, yeah, how do we then continue to pass that knowledge down and through?

Sue Anstiss: 42:42

And I love how you've talked so openly about the making mistakes and learning from those. But if you were able to go back and give yourself some advice for and maybe at that point that you're just transitioning from player uh to coach across your coaching journey what is there anything you would? You would do differently or a different approach that you'd have?

Carla ward: 42:59

yeah, at the time, I probably thought I knew more than I did. I think, um, at the time, probably lean on experienced people, although I didn't have many of those around me, but maybe I could have tapped into other people. My advice would be you utilize people you know. I'm very open to that now and I was very open to that probably I'd say a year after, probably I'd fallen on my face 10 times and my nose started to hurt. So, uh, yeah, I um tap into people very early in my journey. That's what I would have done.

Sue Anstiss: 43:32

And just finally, and I guess you've painted a positive picture of coaching and yet it has challenges and we've talked about, you know, never mind pay and the hours you know required and so on. But what would you say to women that might be thinking about coaching as a role, as a career moving forward? What is it that you love about being a coach? Why would you recommend that as a career moving forward? What is?

Carla ward: 43:52

it that you love about being a coach? Why would you recommend that as a career path? Make it a difference. You know you can develop people, you can develop players. But I would say be authentic, because I think I've. You know I've probably developed. Let's go back to the media. I've probably developed a relationship with people, particularly the media, from being myself. Often you can be robotic, should I say. Often some people clubs maybe don't want you to be yourself, want you to be the way or speak in a way that isn't yourself. You know, I was fortunate, like I said, to be at a club that allowed me to be myself and I think it's important that you're. You are true to who you are what a joy to talk to Carla.

Sue Anstiss: 44:31

I love her openness and honesty about all things. If you'd like to hear from more top coaches, previous guests on the podcast have included football coaches like Emma Hayes C asey Stoney and Hope Powell, along with women coaching at the very top of a whole range of sports, including Judy Murray, mel Marshall, jess jess thirlby, jenny meadows and charlotte edwards. In fact, if it's trailblazers in sport you're after, there are over 200 episodes of the game changers that are all free to listen to on all podcast platforms or from our website at www. fearlesswomen. co. uk. Guests include olympians paralympians, world champions, coaches, entrepreneurs, broadcasters, scientists, journalists and CEOs All women who are changing the game in sport. As well as listening to the podcast on the website, you can also find out more about the Women's Sport Collective, a free, inclusive community for all women that work in sport. We now have over 13,000 members across the world, so please do come and join us.

Sue Anstiss: 45:39

The whole of my book Game On the Unstoppable Rise of Women's Sport is also free to listen to on the podcast. Every episode of Series 13 is me reading a chapter of the book. Thank you once again to Sport England for backing the Game Changers and the Women's Sport Collective, to the National Lottery and to Sam Walker at what Goes On Media, who does such an excellent job as our executive producer. Thank you also to my brilliant colleague at Fearless Women,K ate Hannan. You can find the Game Changers on all podcast platforms platforms so please follow us now and you won't miss out on future episodes. Do come and say hello on social media, where you'll find me on linkedin and instagram at sue anstiss. The game changers fearless women in sport.