The Game Changers
In this award-winning podcast Sue Anstiss talks to trailblazers in women sport. These are the individuals who are knocking down barriers and challenging the status quo for women and girls everywhere. Along with openly sharing their historic careers, what drives them and how they’ve dealt with tough challenges, each episode explores key issues for equality in sport and beyond.
We’re incredibly grateful to Sport England who support The Game Changers through a National Lottery award.
You can find out about all the guests at https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Fearless Women in Sport
The Game Changers
Yvette Curtis: Making Waves for Women in Surfing
Our guest today is Yvette Curtis, founder of Wave Wahines, a female surfing club dedicated to empowering women and girls in the sport.
We discuss Yvette's journey from her childhood in Bristol to her current work in North Devon, the importance of fun and non-competitive environments in sports, and the challenges of promoting diversity and inclusion in surfing.
Yvette shares her experiences of the backlash she faced when addressing issues of representation and the need for diverse voices in sports management. We explore the importance of representation and diversity in surfing and sport, the impact of Yvette’s research on UK surfing and the empowering role of surf therapy for marginalized communities.
Yvette highlights the therapeutic benefits of surfing for mental health, the challenges of finding funding for the grassroots CIC and the growth of female participation in the sport.
Wave Wahines which has supported hundreds of women and girls coming into the sport, along with running surf therapy with women living in refuge, sessions for resettled young female refugees, collaborations with Queer Surf Club, the first Trans and nonbinary youth surf session & hosting the first UK female focused surf contest which is now an annual event.
There’s huge recognition and celebration of Yvette’s powerful work in the areas of inclusion and ocean activism.
Here is Yvette's Surfing & Diversity Report
Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.
Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media
A Fearless Women production
Hello and welcome to The Game Changers. I'm Sue Anstiss, and this is the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazing women in sport who are knocking down barriers and challenging the status quo for women and girls everywhere. What can we learn from their journeys as we explore key issues around equality in sport and beyond? I'd like to start with a big thank you to our partners, Sport England, who support The Game Changers podcast through a national lottery award. I'm excited to say that in this, the 18th series of The Game Changers, I'll be talking to founders and entrepreneurs, the women who have set up organisations that help change the landscape for all women and girls in sport.
Sue Anstiss:In today's episode, I'm talking to Yvette Curtis, the founder of Wave Wahines, a female surfing club that has supported hundreds of women and girls coming into the sport, along with running surf therapy with women living in refuge, sessions for resettled young female refugees, collaborations with the Queer Surf Club, the first trans and non-binary youth surf session, and hosting the first UK female focused surf session, which is now an annual event. There's huge recognition and celebration for Yvette's work, and just this month, the club was shortlisted for the Community Club of the Year in the gender category of the National Diversity Awards. So, Yvette, let's start by talking about beautiful Croyde in North Devon, where you live, and obviously being by the sea is amazing, but has that always been a part of your life, living by the sea?
Yvette Curtis:Wow. Well, firstly, thank you for that introduction. That was spectacular. I wasn't prepared for that at all. Wow Gosh, we've done quite a lot, haven't we? It's always quite stunning when someone sort of puts a massive summary together, goodness. But in answer to your question, I have not always been in Croyde. I've lived in North Devon for the past 15 years I think now. I actually grew up in Bristol and spent all my formative years growing up in a city, basically in a suburb of Bristol, so not sort of city central. So being by the beach was something we did, maybe a couple of times a year on holiday within the UK, but also my dad's from Mauritius . So we were fortunate enough to travel back to Mauritius for family holidays. So I occasionally got to sample that, but never really spent much time by the coastline up until I took the decision to move here.
Sue Anstiss:And will you stay there forever? You think the sea's a place that you'll need to be forever in the future.
Yvette Curtis:I think so. Yeah, whether it's Croyde or whether it's, you know, south of the border down into Cornwall, or whether it's somewhere overseas, I think I'll always need to be, you know, fairly close to being by the ocean. Yeah, definitely.
Sue Anstiss:And it's through your children that much of your work started with Wave Wahinez. But how was sport a part of your life growing up as a young girl in Bristol?
Yvette Curtis:For me it's just been always part of who I am. I went to an all-girls school as a teenager and my favourite teacher was my PE teacher, Mrs Seeley. I still remember her, you know, and she has shaped everything I think I've done sport-wise. I think she was really motivational and saw a lot of talent that I maybe didn't see at the time. So I became captain of quite a few of the sports clubs. I played netball throughout my entire sort of school career. I was captain, I played centre. So I was quite a competitive young woman at that point and won sort of trophies on sports day. So for me sport was just everything. It was part of who I was.
Yvette Curtis:I wasn't hugely academic, although I did fairly well in my exams, but it certainly wasn't where I put my focus. So I'm always grateful to Mrs Seely for what she did. I remember I think my dad found my gosh. I'm going to give out my age now, my record of achievement from school, and in that record of achievement as a I must have been 15, I suppose I'd put in there that I was always going to work in sport and I was going to change the world by being sporty, and I was just like. I read it as a maybe four years ago, so 40, and read it and I was so stunned by that sentence and thought, my goodness, wow, I'm not sure I'm changing the world by sport. I'm definitely in it.
Sue Anstiss:Yeah, I think you are. I think you definitely are. I love that. I love that looking back and finding it too, and in terms of the outdoors and physical activity, obviously netball and team sports and so on but when did that start, almost that love of outdoors that was into college.
Yvette Curtis:So I went to college in Bristol to do my A-levels and one of the reasons I chose the college I chose, which was Filton, was because they had this incredible outdoor pursuits program that you could run alongside your A-levels.
Yvette Curtis:It was classes like an A-level related, so you then gained qualifications in climbing, in kayaking, in powerboat, sort of licensing, all of those things. So you got to do that alongside your A-level courses. So I picked that college so that I could actually continue with sport in a really different way and funnily enough I was in the same outdoor pursuits class as Jenny Jones, obviously now famous Olympic snowboarder. So we were friends at college and sort of went on the same trips and stuff. And I remember it was the dry slope skiing that we did at college as a group that completely put me off because I fell over and really hurt myself and I was like, oh my gosh, skiing and stuff and snow is not for me. And I remember that was the year that Jenny went on the overseas trip and then made the decision that that was what her career was going to be.
Sue Anstiss:Oh wow. And I'd seen some social actually of her coming down to and we're going to come and talk about your activity. But I've seen her, so I've made that connection now of her coming down and being a supporter of all you're doing now as well too. All those years on. That's lovely isn't?
Yvette Curtis:it. Yeah, because she she was always a surfer as well, having grown up sort of in Cornwall and, and so, yeah, she came down and being friends, she became a captain for one of our sort of contests and, again, just super supportive, got in with the girls, did a bit of coaching with them and just a bit of mentoring and yeah, it's really lovely when you get sort of friends like that who are just really keen to support something that's so grassrootsy. It's really, yeah, it's really lovely and it's really incredible for the girls because they're so like, so starstruck when when people like sort of Jenny or Laura will come along to sessions, and it's just pretty, pretty magical that we've got the ability to do that.
Sue Anstiss:That's lovely, but you didn't pursue sport as a career, although I do believe you later became a personal trainer. So how did that kind of transition from your original career to personal training yeah?
Yvette Curtis:it was really different. Actually, I think life happened. I left home really young, moved out when I was sort of just before I was 18. So finished college whilst living outside of the house. So I think that became quite a challenge and sort of just fell into a very different pattern of life. I think that took me away from education, took me away from sports, and then I actually had my first child when I was 22. First child when I was 22. So then it just became all about sort of them and looking after them and being able to work and do all those things that should maintaining another human involve. So, yeah, it was really different and I'd occasionally do aerobics classes with my girlfriends, but then I actually got.
Yvette Curtis:It was actually my divorce that threw me back into sport. I found running was really cathartic and going through a divorce was pretty challenging. So I found that running was just this amazing way of switching off and just focusing on sort of me and just being really really free mentally and ended up, actually I think the year I did sort of the divorce came through, I ran my first marathon Wow, wow, yeah, and never, never really looked back from there. So I sort of realized at that point that you know, sport was just completely in me, retrained work-wise to be a personal trainer and and yeah, and that was kind of the start of where I am now, because it just I can see the impact it has on people and I think if you have a sport, it doesn't matter what it is and no matter what level you play at or what level you do it and pursue it. I think as long as you have something that is physical and active in your life, I think it's so grounding for everything else.
Sue Anstiss:And so how did Way for Heenis start so kind of moving you out running marathons and being a personal trainer? But? But how did Wave Wahine start so kind of moving you out running marathons and being a personal trainer? But how did it initiate? And where did the name come from as well too. What does the name mean?
Yvette Curtis:Well, wahine is a Polynesian word which basically just means female, female surfer primarily. So obviously we wanted to maintain that connection to Polynesian roots so we just went with Wave Wahine. It just seemed the perfect fit. And, yeah, I think it's the perfect name for it because I did a lot of reading around sort of surfing and its heritage and its culture and very much wanted to ensure that we were being true to that sort of history. So, yeah, that was where the name came from. But the actual club came from my eldest child. At the time they were born female and identified as Aaliyah. Now they are a trans male and identify as Aidan. So just to clarify that.
Yvette Curtis:So we began because of a need. They'd come to me and said look, mom, I really want to go surfing. We live by the coast. And I thought, oh gosh, okay, it's the one thing I actually have no concept of. I'd had a surfing lesson as part of my 30th bucket list year and it was great and I really enjoyed it. So totally could see the pull, but had never pursued it and never done it any other way. So I booked her a couple of private lessons, loved it, but financially that's just not a feasible thing long term. So I mean, when you're looking at now sort of surf lessons are upwards of £45 for a session, so it's an expensive pastime. So we looked at local surf clubs, surf organizations, but you know, as I'm sure you can probably imagine, they were quite male-dominated. Quite a lot of guys, they all knew each other, they'd all grown up together, they all had their own kit and so it just wasn't something we could maintain.
Yvette Curtis:And I spoke to a girlfriend of mine, karma Worthington, who is a former junior champion and she now coaches actually the Team England juniors. So I spoke to her about this and I said, look, you know, can we do something? Because my child can't be the only person in this predicament? There must be others with parents like me who don't surf, who wouldn't know what to do and wouldn't know how to get them started. But you know, be others with parents like me who don't surf, who wouldn't know what to do and wouldn't know how to get them started. But I have my own personal training business that was really successful. So I know how to coach and I know how to run a business. I was like we can put the two together if you can figure out how we can get the surfing coaches. And she was really on board.
Yvette Curtis:And another female coach, liv, also came on board and we approached our local surf school, surf Southwest, and said, look, can we trial this and just see what happens? Would you support this and how much would it cost? And they were so fantastic and just went. Well, you can have the school for free. All the stuff can be free. You just need to pay the coaches. So you know.
Yvette Curtis:So, between myself, karma and Liv, I would just be there doing the organizing and lots of cheerleading and warmups and stuff, and they would be doing the surf coaching. And we obviously stood the test of time. We obviously filled a need in the local area, because you know, we're here eight years later going super strong, and of that first cohort I think we maybe had probably about 10 of them that surfed with us regularly and of those 10, four of them went on to become surf coaches and lifeguards themselves, and I think that would be by and large because they were taught by female coaches. They could see there was a progression for them. So it has become a real cycle within our local community of progress.
Sue Anstiss:And how important is it? Do you think that kind of non-competitive element of participating in the sport too, isn't it? I do so much on the pathway and where you are on an England pathway or a GB pathway, but actually when I've looked at some of the work that you've done, it's just that pure joy of sport and participating, and do you think that was an important element in its growth too?
Yvette Curtis:A hundred percent. Yeah, we always started the club with the sort of ethos that it was based on fun. It was all based on play. It wasn't based on who's caught the best waves, who stood up the most, who's you know you could go on, it was phones, with you know all the pressure to be this perfect thing, that actually just being allowed to just do whatever you want and have, you know, salty hair snot dripping out of your face and all that stuff that comes with being in the sea. It's just fun and we're a really non-judgmental organization. We always have a little bit of a recap when we have new joiners to, to be like, let's remember you know where we were when we first started. So let's make sure everyone feels welcome and that's one of the things that has paid off.
Yvette Curtis:You know I've had parents say to me my child's so much more confident now, or you know they're having issues at school and coming to the club has really allowed them to to sort of escape those issues that they're having. So it's been. You know, it's been really, really important to us that it is focused on the fun element. But equally, you know, kids are kids and there's moments where you know we've had parents go actually this happened and we've had to take that with our coaches and say, look, here's the moment that we need to either make sure that all of our young people are working together and just explain to them why it's really important that you know anything that's happening at school it doesn't boil over into our club. Our club is where we're all together, we're in the sea. It's, you know, it's a dangerous place if you don't respect it. So, yeah, we are really careful with how we interact with the girls that surf with us and make sure that they all feel welcome that surf with us and make sure that they all feel welcome.
Sue Anstiss:And I think if I ask anyone what we would think of a typical surfer, it's probably a blonde, white, athletic young man would be the kind of image that's conjured up. So I'm really interested has that always been the case? When we look back? You mentioned that kind of Polynesian history, but in terms of where surfing came from and how it's grown, is that what we would see across the world? That look and feel of a male?
Yvette Curtis:surfing. Yeah, that's definitely the image that has now put out there. Obviously that image is now also translated into the feminine, but that that stuff would still, by and large you would think of someone who is blonde, athletic, petite, tan, beautiful, all of those things. But historically it was not that. Historically, obviously it's got roots in Polynesia. There'll also be roots historically in the African continent. So those are communities that aren't white. Those are definitely communities of color, particularly when we're talking about the Polynesian side.
Yvette Curtis:It was a sport for all people, it was a pastime of queens, kings to everybody else. You know it wasn't something that had this massive hierarchy about it. But then, as in a lot of these moments, then colonization happens and missionaries arrive, and missionaries come to say actually, what you're doing, it's wrong, especially for women to be doing it, because they're not wearing very many clothes because're in Hawaii actually, so it's probably quite warm, so they don't need to be in starch and cotton like the missionaries would have then put them in. So it was definitely an act of colonialism that then almost wiped out surfing. You then had princes that did continue that tradition of watercraft and and they traveled and took surfing to various parts of the globe. At that point, the UK being one of them. I think the first place was maybe Bridport, where we had two Hawaiian princes that surfed here. So it did manage to stay within that Hawaiian culture. But then when it was transferred to other continents it completely lost that identity. So it was then almost made extinct by colonialism and then taken away by Western sort of community and civilization and almost repackaged and repurposed and curated into what we see today.
Yvette Curtis:You know it went through its obvious stage in the 70s and 80s and early 90s of just massive misogyny. It was very much a male-dominated sport and the only females that you'd get would be in bikinis, kind of watching their boyfriend surfing. And then the females that did start surfing were definitely in the minority and probably suffered rather a lot. You know there's an amazing film called Girls Can't Surf which focused on that period in the 90s where you know, women were definitely ostracized from the community.
Yvette Curtis:The bikini contest, you know, got more money than the women's sort of surfers. They got put out in the terrible waves and that's kind of what has become the image of the surf sector and surf culture today and that's why, you know, there's clubs like ours and there's clubs across the, the rest of the UK and globally, that are kind of standing up and going. But that's not. That's not what surfing was all about, and it's not what it's about and it's not who should only have access to it. So, yeah, I think it's really important that we, we learn from that history and we actually're actually really connected to it, because it wasn't the image that we've sort of had, nicely packaged up and given to us now kind of came across you and all the work that you were doing.
Sue Anstiss:But you did a piece for BBC Spotlight about the lack of diversity in surfing and highlighting issues around access and inclusion and representation, and what was the response to your calling that out within the surfing community?
Yvette Curtis:Yeah, that was pretty unpleasant. It was quite heavily trolled, millions of little microaggressions thrown in there, of no one stopping them going in the water. You know, there's no signs and I'm like, well, actually, until really recently there were signs in America saying like no blacks on this beach. So that's, you know, that's true and untrue anyway. Yeah, so it was quite unpleasant for me to kind of witness and I did sort of take stock of. You know, do I want to really be challenging this and do I want to be talking about it? Because it's really heavily emotional for me to have to read that stuff. It's emotional for my kids to read it.
Yvette Curtis:You know, my eldest, obviously, you know, was a lot older then, so is on social media, can see what people are saying. So, yeah, it becomes like a bigger thing. Then, you know, am I putting putting my family in a position that they haven't asked to be put in. And I sat down sort of speaking to my dad and my mum about this and and they sort of just said, you know, look, we've had abuse for all our lives, being, you know, a mixed heritage couple, but when we were growing up or when we were sort of a couple new, it was kind of accepted, you know, like racism was just. It probably wasn't just called racism, it was just how you treat people who aren't white. And my dad said now the law is on your side. You know you're allowed to say this stuff, you're allowed to challenge it, and you know I think it's great. He said look, we're here, sat around having fish and chips, talking about race. This is fantastic. So this would never happen.
Yvette Curtis:When I was sort of my age, at being what? 40. At that time, having that conversation around a table wouldn't have existed. It just would be something that's brushed under the carpet. So I think it would have been. Really I couldn't have not stood up about it at that point, because then I was like well, actually my dad wasn't able to, and I am and and I'm going to show my children that, that you don't have to accept that and that that's not right and you can't just let people bully you because of you know something that is unchangeable, like the color of my skin. So that's kind of why we we decided to continue with it and and I'm really glad we did you know it's not been without its challenges, but I'm really glad we did. You know it's not been without its challenges, but I'm really comfortable that I can sleep at night with what we've done.
Sue Anstiss:That's excellent to hear, isn't it? But it's weird, isn't it, that whole have a surf community, but just how communities get so defensive about it. I spoke to Sabrina Pace-Humphreys on the Game Changers podcast as well, too, and she talked about the vitriol and the backlash that she'd faced when calling out like a diversity where she lived and in the outdoor running space. So I just wonder, why do you think that is that there's almost a truth of it, because it is the truth. It makes people so angry and defensive about their sport or their area.
Yvette Curtis:Honestly, it's such a big question and I think it's really hard to answer, but I think I don't think it's anything well most of the time. I don't think it's really hard to answer, but I think I don't think it's anything well. Most of the time I don't think it's anything malicious. Obviously, you know, some of it is out and out racism, but I think a lot of the time it's almost.
Yvette Curtis:People don't want to be called names, they don't want to be called something and if you're saying this particular thing, whether it's, you know, and it clearly is right you know there is a lack of representation within certain sports and certain activities and and I think people maybe get this feeling that you're calling them a racist, you're calling them a name and it's like no, that's not what I'm doing. I'm saying this sport isn't representative of the world we live in. I'm not saying this sport is this, you are this, yeah, yeah, and I think that's it. I do think people think you're, you're saying they're this really wrong and awful thing, but it's not that case and, yeah, I think maybe that's why people get so, so defensive. But also, people don't like mirrors, you know. You don't like to look at it and go gosh, have I been complicit in this by not saying something. There's also. There's also that edge to it as well, so so I think it's a really big question, probably massively multilayered.
Sue Anstiss:Yeah, it's fascinating and, as you say and as your dad said over the fish and chips, good that we are talking about it and having those conversations today too. I feel from the outside of having seen you on interviews and panels and podcasts, you always seem very calm and gentle in your approach to these discussions. So is that the case and how has that been for you?
Yvette Curtis:Well, thank you for saying that. That's really nice. I'm really glad that this is being recorded so I can play it back to my husband and go look, see, I am really calm, fantastic. And honestly, I haven't always been this way. I really haven't. I've been quite reactive, I would say, and definitely probably respond before I should have done, and then I'll respond in something that's really really argumentative and really combative. So I think this has been like a real lesson that has just come with age and has come also with how I don't like being spoken to. You know, for me, if someone's shouting and waving their fists at me and getting really in my face, then I tend to just go well, I'm not even going to discuss it with you because you can't hold a conversation. So I think I've now gotten to sort of that stage where I just I'd rather sit back, absorb the information and then sort of come back with a discussion point, and so I think it's just. I just don't think I'm going to get the right outcome for what I want if I'm shouting at somebody or being really, really aggressive and it's not in my nature.
Yvette Curtis:I'm not a massively aggressive person, although my kids would say when I play ocean bingo. I'm incredibly aggressive and competitive. What's ocean bingo? Oh, it's literally. It's literally bingo, but you've got ocean animals instead, so you're pulling out loads of different animals from the ocean. So, yeah, we're literally that family, but we love it. Yeah, we've got that. So yeah, so, so yeah. So we do learn a lot, which is really good, a really good way of introducing new ocean life to them. But yeah, I am quite competitive, but I just don't think I'm an aggressive person in how I speak to people. I think my dad's quite soft-spoken and quite gentle and I always knew that if he had something to say, I'd be in really big trouble. So I kind of think, actually, if you're quite mild and you're quite you know, hopefully quite likable and usually fairly diplomatic in your thought process, then actually when you do kind of go up a slight level, then people are like oh goodness, oh goodness, what have we done? Yeah, absolutely.
Sue Anstiss:And how important is it that diverse representation, I guess in terms of gender and ethnicity, and not kind of all areas of diversity in terms of the management of sport and where those decisions are being made? There's a lot of the work that we do in terms of female leadership, but but how important is that in terms of the work that you're doing and surfing generally?
Yvette Curtis:you know, I think it's really important because people need to see that there's a pathway for them if they want to, you know, continue within a certain sport or a certain sector. And the only way that you can see that happening is if you can see someone that you can relate to, someone that is, you know, resonant, resonates with you and and at the moment we don't really see that very much within other sports it's getting better, I think it is improving, but we don't really see that very much Within other sports. It's getting better, I think it is improving, but we certainly don't see it within surfing. Gender wise, it's definitely improving.
Yvette Curtis:You know, we've got obviously there's, you know, female coaches now within the Surfing England Junior Squad. We've got the GB surfing manager is female and, yeah, fantastic surfer Gwen Spurlock. She's amazing, but again, it's it's taken a long time and what's been really interesting is the women that are now certainly coming through in the UK sort of management side are the ones that that sort of you know, having spoken to them may have struggled with getting sponsorship because they didn't feel that that cookie cutter image that we were presented with. Yet they stood the test of time. They're still here and now they are at the upper echelons of our sport and, and I think that's something that, you know, they should be really proud of and it's definitely something that our girls get to look up to, and I just, yeah, I think there needs to be more women going into those fields within the surfing sector, because it is it's so great to be a part of, but you know, it's a challenge, like anything, but if you love it, you love it and it is life changing.
Sue Anstiss:As you say, we need those women in the rooms and making those decisions too, don't we?
Yvette Curtis:Yeah, I did no-transcript. We're far away away from it in 2022.
Sue Anstiss:you wrote a fantastic report about surfing and diversity, and I'll share a link to it in the show notes for the podcast too, because it was just really interesting. I learned so much in reading that. So I guess why did you write that report? Because they take work to create those kind of things too, and I guess, has it had impact? What have you kind of found the response to it has been.
Yvette Curtis:Yeah, the reason I did the research in the first place was because I couldn't find any. I couldn't find any figures, particularly in response to sort of UK surfing and sort of what it's like over here, and there didn't seem to be any happening within sort of our governance structures. So I think I just got really tired of waiting and just went oh, how hard can it be? Turns out quite hard. I was really lucky enough to be part of a group of sort of the Committee for Women Surfers Europe, and on that group there's an amazing academic called Rebecca Olive. She's based in Australia and she sort of specializes in gender studies, particularly around water, and I sort of bounced the idea of her and she's like oh, my God, that's great. If I can help, you know, let me know. And I was like you know, I can't pay, you don't you? Firstly, and you know, and she's a really good friend, and I sort of put together all the questions, sent them to her to proofread, then just sort of came back with with her suggestions and experience and and then we just put it out and you know, when sort of the questions came back, I remember thinking, god, she's gonna absolutely hate me because I just put everything in an excel spreadsheet and just went there you go, don't really know what to do with that now and she was just phenomenal the way she sort of found the threads of and I'm like God. This is why, like, research is just a completely different animal because it was amazing how she pulled that stuff out. So she sent me then the key takeaways and sort of the stats I still had all the raw data and then just put together the report that we put together, get her to have a look at it and then just sort of you know, double check that I had pulled out the right information. And that was when that went live and I think you know it's been two years. So I think we're due to be putting together another one before the end of this year so we can then see whether it's changed.
Yvette Curtis:We didn't have much response from within governance. We had a lot of response from our community, from the surfing community and from the non-surfing community going God. This is why we haven't tried it before. I think it was really worth doing. I think now, when we recreate it and see how we've moved on, we'll probably add slightly different questions in addition to what we have slightly different questions in addition to what we have. So we've still got that sort of baseline of knowledge.
Yvette Curtis:But it was yeah, it was just born out of a absolute need for data, because you can't get any information unless you know where you're starting from, and there was no starting point within UK surfing. So I thought, well, instead of waiting, let's just do it. And because I'm, you know, independent, I'm just me I didn't have to have any constraints of other people saying, well, you can't ask that we're trying to structure the information this way, we're trying to present it this way. I could just be like well, I'm just doing it. I don't have any agenda or motives or have to get a certain result out of it, I can just be honest.
Sue Anstiss:I can just be honest Excellent. That's really good to hear, isn't it? And then to see the impact that might have moving forward too. I'd like to ask, if I can, about some of the programs that you've run with Wave Wahinez. I know you've done some fantastic work with Syrian refugees within the North Devon area, so can you tell us a little bit more about that, I guess, and the impact that that's had too?
Yvette Curtis:Yeah, that has been so lovely to have done that. And again that came out of the discussion around the lack of diversity within surfing and we sort of said you know, look, we are running these programs, they're fully funded. And interestingly, the group that came back to us were a group of sort of resettled Syrian refugees and to us that was probably not the demographic we thought would happen, because I had no idea we had such a large number of resettled families in North Devon. I knew we had a couple, but yeah, it was really interesting and obviously that then added different elements to how we looked at handling that SURF program. They were obviously they're coming from war. Handling that surf program. They were obviously they're coming from from war. They're coming from interim sort of refugee camps. Potentially, you know, different housing, language, culture, trauma, all of those things are are suddenly in addition to to what we had looked at. So for us it was just like, okay, this is, this is brilliant. We're definitely going to work with this community. It would be fantastic. But how do we then manage that for them safely and making sure that they get what they want to get out of it? So we ensured that it was only female-led staff. We spoke to their parents. We really reassured them that through an interpreter.
Yvette Curtis:This was that we would ensure that it was only women on site at the time. They would have the option, obviously, to have full wetsuits, so they wanted to wear stuff over the top. We had access to Finisterre's sea suit, which was made for modesty, so we tried to make sure that they had as many barriers removed that we possibly could do and we had volunteers for each young person. So that was how we started and how we sort of led that first, that first sort of group of young women, and I remember that first sort of group we ran over maybe two months and one of the young people they had a little sister who was one and a half, I think, at that time and she was just a beautiful little thing and they they didn't speak any English at that point. And if we fast forward now to this year, that little girl surfed with us for the first time ever and, yeah, and with her two big sisters, who were all confident swimmers, confident in the sea, diving under the waves, which made her really confident and literally was just desperate to get in the sea, and that was something that we hadn't seen from any of the other girls any other year where she was. So I'm just going in and I think that's a real testament to how we've operated as a club, how we've ensured that we're respectful.
Yvette Curtis:We don't run sessions over Ramadan. We make sure that everything is done during sort of school holidays so that it's easier for the young people to get to. We organize transport as well, because many of them don't drive and often the buses here can be quite not the most reliable. So we try to make it as as easy as possible to participate. And what we did find last year and this year was to actually ensure that the boys had an offering for the last week, because it turned out that that the boys couldn't believe that they weren't allowed to do it, because normally it's the boys who get the stuff to do, and this was totally, totally sort of counterculture really. So we did ensure that we ran extra sessions so that the brothers had something to do during the session and they got to surf as well, and it was. It was really empowering for the girls to be able to do something independently and to watch their brothers do something independently.
Sue Anstiss:It was, yeah, it was really amazing you mentioned there the sort of therapeutic benefit of surfing and I'm really fascinated. I know you've done other programs with women who've been impacted by domestic abuse, so why do you feel surfing can have such a positive impact on on mental health?
Yvette Curtis:firstly, you're out in nature, which is fantastic, you know you're surrounded by the natural sounds and smells and fields of the natural world, so that immediately just has a sense of calming. But particularly with being in the ocean or any body of water, essentially, but in this instance, talking about surfing, it's's so present. You cannot be thinking about conversations or the lawyers or the shopping list or the kids or the, because you're too concerned with like is that wave coming? Am I gonna have to just move my board? Do I have to do this? And it's, and it just completely clears your mind, other than what you're focusing on. But also, like water, has this wonderful, like weird quality of where it just makes you feel like you can talk. And it's not like being sat in a therapy room where you're going there specifically to have this conversation and you know it's going to be challenging. But you're there carrying a board with a woman that you've never really met and you don't know if you'll see them again. And suddenly you can just have this conversation about stuff that you may not have spoken about for a really, really long time, if ever, because you feel that you're in a really different space and it's really hard to describe it.
Yvette Curtis:But I remember, in particular with the surf therapy with the women in refuge, we were doing an exercise and we quite often do an exercise where you tap your throat and you go. You know, I use my voice. And I remember you know one one of the women found that really challenging and and I think it was it was in in relation to sort of something that happened. So we said, look, tap your shoulders and you know, let's use your voice there and let's tap that bit instead. And I remember at the end of the three sessions that we had with that particular group, we did this really fantastic act where we yelled at the sea and just went, I'm free, and she did it. She yelled and I remember her becoming really emotional, just said thank you for giving me my voice back.
Yvette Curtis:And it's things like that that you, you know as much as over winter I always get quite stressed financially and go oh my God, I really want to keep running the club and progress it and do this. I then go should it go? Should or can I still do it? Can it keep running? And I then go back through this whole repertoire of stuff in my head.
Yvette Curtis:Or I go to a session and I see the girls and I watch them, you know, jumping around and giving me hugs and stuff, and I'm like, yeah, of course this club can't not be here. This is just like it's magic when you get to witness it firsthand and see it. You know, no matter how sort of much things I've got on my to-do list, you know it's an absolute tonic when you go through like a session or when you think back to someone who's who said such incredible things that, yeah, I just it's really hard for me to put into words the power of surf therapy and the power of the ocean when it comes to, you know, resilience and rehab and where have you found the funding for this incredible activity?
Sue Anstiss:you know historically and moving forwards too?
Yvette Curtis:Historically, we've had funding from our local sort of Fullerbrook, which is a wind farm. We've had funding from the National Lottery on two occasions and we've had funding from the Opening Up the Outdoors initiative, of which I'm sort of a graduate of their cohort, and we got funding with the end of that program. We've also got private funders that support certain programs as well. We have had private funders that have supported our surf therapy with domestic abuse for sort of their own personal reasons. Again, it's winter now, so we're currently in that frantic I say we I'm currently in that frantic bid writing phase of sort of you know, what can we secure for 2025?
Yvette Curtis:And it's, you know it's a grassroots organization, it's a CIC nonprofit. So you know, like everybody in these boats, you do these passion projects and you just you hope somebody else sees the value in them and helps support that. But it's ultimately done out of love and regardless of sort of the funding and the not, we just limit and we would just run it to our means, which, at the moment, as long as the coaches get paid, that's fine. I don't need to take any money out of there. But you know, it would be nice at some point to see it grow. But for me, I think the impact that we have, I just I would find a way to keep it going regardless of anything else, it's too, I else it's too. I think it's too important and I think we've. You know, we've been going for eight years and I can't count the amount of sort of people we've probably interacted with and had such a positive impact on, and that makes me incredibly proud.
Sue Anstiss:And is there an ambition to to do more and to expand it further? And do you talk to other surf regions across the country that might want to emulate what you've done? Yeah, we do.
Yvette Curtis:We've wanted to grow and I think we'd want to be able to offer more. We've done initiatives, you know. Interestingly, in Bristol, we've also done things in Cornwall before At the Wave. Yeah, the Wave is an inland surfing lake, sort of created, purpose built, for surfing. You know, people have very different feelings on whether they like them or don't like them, whether they want to surf in nature or or sort of in a, in a sort of swimming pool, and it's really, you know, I think it's it's opening up access to surfing in a different environment and a different way. I think, you know it has its own barriers as well as the ocean has its own barriers. I think inland surf lakes also have their barriers. So I think it's just a preference on there. But we have historically run events there as well.
Yvette Curtis:Again, because you're in the center of Bristol, so demographic-wise you should have a lot of demographics that can engage with surfing, but that doesn't seem to be being the case at the moment. So that that was kind of why we got involved. But in terms of us, our growth, it would be really nice to expand and go further and, you know, go to different coastlines. You know, and I think we are in that process. We found you know we're looking at trailers that have got boards and stuff and to make that more accessible and more easy for us to do. You know, running more events would be fantastic. Our competition has been a great success over the past four years and I think that's one thing that we'll continue to grow and do, because it's just, you know it's been, I think, we lead it as the most uncompetitive competition that you'll find.
Sue Anstiss:I love that, I love that and like just even just your being there and my being aware of your existing and female surfing, et cetera. I think you know there's an impact just through the awareness of what you're doing too. But are you, have you seen a shift? Are there? I'm not sure how much these things are measured and tracked, but in terms of female participation in surfing beyond the work that you're doing in Croyd, A hundred percent.
Yvette Curtis:Yeah yeah, when we started eight years ago we were the only club. We were only probably one of two clubs in the entire Southwest. I think it was probably us and Newquay Women's Surf Club maybe at that point. And now I think if you look around, I could probably list at least 10. Excellent, so I think just from that alone that shows the growth and that shows the need.
Sue Anstiss:That's so good to hear I was going to mention. You've obviously been shortlisted for lots of awards and I think that's also really important. It's getting you in the awareness of people within the sporting and wider sector. I know quite recently, as I mentioned in the intro, you were shortlisted for Community Club of the year in the gender category for the national diversity awards. But how does it feel to be shortlisted? I know the Sunday Times awards is where I kind of first came across you, as it were, in 2019, but I sense from your uh, how humble you are that it's not something that you're chasing, but I think that profile definitely has an impact and raises awareness for females in surfing yeah, it's really, it's really funny because I always find it a bit um, like it's I find it really difficult to talk about and be like, oh my god, yes, I've done this and I've done that because I'm not, yeah, I'm not that sort of person to kind of.
Yvette Curtis:You know, when you list things, I'm like, oh my god, this person sounds incredible and then just go, oh my god, no, that's me. And I like, and I find that really quite challenging because I'm just not that, yeah, I'm just not that person. So when these award nominations come up, it's just like, it's so overwhelming in just I can't believe people are taking notice of what we do. You know, and I listened to some of the nominations, particularly with the Sunday Times one. I listened to a few of the nominations that Peter and I was just in floods of tears, you know, I just when I'm sort of faced with the reasons people love us and you know and want to support what we do, it's just, you know, some of that stuff you just don't hear in a session and you're like, wow, that really that's what you wanted, and yeah, and it's really quite, it's quite emotional to sit and listen to it and and then you know, obviously, the, the national diversity awards a couple of weeks ago was an incredibly big event. I was totally unprepared for, for sort of the magnitude of it. It was just so like, it was just so five star. I was like, wow, this is amazing. We're in this big. You know, it's all just really really cool and just full of amazing people doing amazing things and and it's just yeah, god, we're just this little surf club and you know that started from, you know, the southwest, and I just find it insane that we're suddenly on this stage. But you know, I remember just saying to people I was like I can't believe we're here and this stage. But you know, I remember just saying to people I was like I can't believe we're here and I'm so proud of everyone who surfed with us, coached for us every single week, in, week out, all the parents that stand on the beach and driving rain and you know, and those communities that have just come into the UK that have trusted us with their children. I just, yeah, I'm so humbled by that and to get us on such a huge stage to talk about what we do and just for people to be aware of us is just an incredible thing and I think what was probably my favorite bit about the awards in particular was I remember going to the Sunday Times Award and that was with my then daughter, aaliyah, and I said it's really important we go together because this wouldn't be here without you.
Yvette Curtis:And then, when we went to the National Diversity Awards, I remember saying the same thing. I remember saying Aidan, I think we need to go together because none of this would be here if it wasn't for you. And I remember we went together and it was just so incredible to be there with my son and there were so many sort of gender expansive people there who were doing amazing things in terms of LGBTQIA plus, and him getting to meet those people and him feeling safer in his own skin than he probably has done, you know, in a really long time, was just magical for me. Getting it to share with Aidan on both of those occasions. That's why the club exists, that's why we do what we do, and the fact that it's now enabled us to look and enabled him to run a transgender youth session yeah, it was amazing. Trans and non-binary youth in our local area was what a joy to be able to support your son to do something like that in a space that is definitely not usually represented by communities like his. That's beautiful.
Sue Anstiss:You're now also working for Surfers Against Sewage. Can you tell us a little bit more about the organisation and your role there?
Yvette Curtis:Yeah, definitely so. I'm the Equity, Diversity and Inclusion Manager at SAS Surf Against Sewage. I've been there for a year and a half now and it's been really interesting to work within that sector. I've always been really passionate obviously since the surf club about the ocean and about ocean health. Prior to that, probably not so much, I probably didn't think about my day-to-day activities and how I am affecting the ocean because I was so far away from it. But the past eight years have definitely taught me a lot about the importance of preserving that life source.
Yvette Curtis:And then the opportunity came up within SAS. So I applied and it's been amazing to learn about that. So I applied and it's been amazing to learn about that. But I think the reason it's been so relevant is because the barriers to surfing and surf culture and the ocean are really similar barriers to then ocean advocacy, conservation and activism. They work together so well in terms of how I work and how I think and my beliefs that you know with Wahine's, the wider picture to kind of become connected to your ocean by sport and by access into surfing. That access into surfing then enables you to care about the water, to care about the ocean. Then how? How can you go about preserving it and advocating for it and all those things. So it's just they're so symbiotic as, as a pair of things to work with, that I just, yeah, I see them like barrier-wise they're really similar, but also just in terms of the growth I think they're just a perfect partnership. So I've been really lucky to kind of work within that sector now.
Sue Anstiss:If you'd like to hear from more amazing trailblazers like Yvette. There are over 200 episodes of a game changes podcast that are all free to listen to on podcast platforms or from our website at fearlesswomencouk. Along with other entrepreneurs like Yvette, there are elite athletes, coaches, broadcasters, scientists, journalists and CEOs all women who are changing the game in sport. As well as listening to all the podcasts on the website, you can also find out more about the Women's Sport Collective, a free, inclusive community for all women working in sport. We now have over eight and a half thousand global members, so please do come and join us.
Sue Anstiss:The whole of my book Game On the Unstoppable Rise of Women's Sport is also free to listen to on the podcast. Every episode of Series 13 is me reading a chapter of the book. Thank you once again to Sport England for backing the Game Changers and the Women's Sport Collective through a National Lottery Award, and to Sam Walker at what Goes On Media, who does such a superb job as our executive producer. Thank you also to my lovely colleague at Fearless Women, kate Hannan. You can find the Game Changers on all podcast platforms, so do follow us now and you won't miss out on future episodes. Come and say hello on social media, where you'll find me at Sue Anstis. The Game Changers Fearless women in sport.
