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The Game Changers
In this award-winning podcast Sue Anstiss talks to trailblazers in women sport. These are the individuals who are knocking down barriers and challenging the status quo for women and girls everywhere. Along with openly sharing their historic careers, what drives them and how they’ve dealt with tough challenges, each episode explores key issues for equality in sport and beyond.
We’re incredibly grateful to Sport England who support The Game Changers through a National Lottery award.
You can find out about all the guests at https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Fearless Women in Sport
The Game Changers
Kelly Newton: Designing products to keep women moving
Kelly Newton is the founder of NIXI Body - absorbent & discreet underwear for periods and little bladder leaks. Nixi body has a focused mission – to keep women moving through menstruation, motherhood and menopause.
Kelly is doing so much to open up the taboo conversation around female incontinence and is an expert on stress and urge incontinence in women – a topic which is incredibly relevant in sport.
A desire to stay active was the biggest driver for Kelly to design her first pair of leak-proof underwear back in 2019 as she knows the massive impact that exercise can have on mental and physical health.
It’s been a joy to watch the evolution of Kelly’s company with NIXI body products now sold in Boots, Superdrug, Decathlon & Mountain Warehouse, along with being on QVC and at Parkruns.
In this episode Kelly shares her journey in sports, the challenges women face with periods and incontinence and the importance of more open conversations about women's health.
We explore Kelly’s motivation to create leak-proof underwear and the evolution of the business. Kelly also addresses the difficulties female entrepreneurs face in securing funding and highlights the collaborative spirit among women in the product space.
Sue and Kelly also celebrate the newfound confidence that comes with age.
Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.
Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media
A Fearless Women production
Hello and welcome to the Game Changers. I'm Sue Anstiss, and this is the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazing women in sport who are knocking down barriers and challenging the status quo for women and girls everywhere. What can we learn from their journeys as we explore key issues around equality in sport and beyond? I'd like to start with a very big thank you to our partners, sport England, who support the Game Changers through a National Lottery Award. I'm excited to say that in this, the 18th series of the Game Changers, I'll be talking to founders and entrepreneurs the women who have set up organisations that help change the landscape for all women and girls in sport.
Sue Anstiss:My guest today is Kelly Newton, the founder of Nixi Body absorbent and discreet underwear for periods and little bladder leaks. Nixi Body has a focused mission to keep women moving through menstruation, motherhood and menopause. Kelly's doing so much to open up the taboo conversation around female incontinence and is an expert on stress and urge incontinence in women, a topic which is incredibly relevant in sport. As we'll hear, a desire to stay active was the biggest driver for Kelly to design her first pair of leak-proof underwear back in 2019., and she knows the massive impact that exercise can have on mental and physical health. It's been a joy to watch the evolution of Kelly's company with Nixie Body products, now sold in Boots, Superdrug, Decathlon and Mountain Warehouse, along with being on QVC and at Parkruns.
Sue Anstiss:So, Kelly, clearly your products are now having a massive impact, especially for young, active girls. So can I take you back to your growing up and what was your experience of sport and, I guess, of periods as well too
Kelly Newton:Firstly, thank you so much for having me on. You know I'm like overwhelmed to be on it, but yeah, so my first sport that I ever played was actually football, and my mum and dad weren't really into sports. My mum was a keen sport fan. She watched lots of sport on the tv, but my dad wasn't really a sporty person. So I had the opportunity to play in a football team on the estate that I grew up on called the Ferrier Girls and actually the Metropolitan Police organised. Every summer they organised a massive tournament for all of the kids growing up in London and yeah, so we were entered into this team and I absolutely loved it. We had training every week and we actually were one game away from playing at Wembley, so we actually beat the Millwall Lionesses in a semi-final at a game.
Kelly Newton:So I was nine years old. They used to call me Chopper Street. My maiden name was Street, because we've got videos of me. Just literally, I just literally would go flying in and take girls out and score goals. It was absolutely brilliant. So that was my first experience of playing a kind of team game. I really, really enjoyed it. So when I went to secondary school and I went to an inner London girls school, we had four female PE teachers who were really enthusiastic about getting girls to play all kinds of sports. So yeah, so I played netball, I played hockey, I was in all of the teams at school, I played tennis, I threw the javelin, I did the hurdles, I did cross country, I did dance and gymnastics as well, so all of these amazing sports that we played in my girls' school. You know back in the early 80s, which I look back now and think actually it was quite unusual for us to do all of that Periods-wise.
Kelly Newton:I didn't start my period till I was about 14. And it was a total shock to me. I mean, I knew kind of we'd had like a half an hour lesson on it in biology, so I kind of knew what was happening, but my mum never really spoke about periods. I had two younger sisters and I started my period and was absolutely mortified and the first thing I did was go home and steal one of my mum's absolutely ginormous sanitary towels and didn't tell her about it for about three months. She actually almost confronted me like where have my sanitary towels been going? And I remember crying because I was so embarrassed and my mum was just from there and was you know, just help yourself and I'll just get extra and you can take them.
Kelly Newton:So there wasn't a lot of innovation. There still isn't a great deal of innovation, I think, around period products, but that was the only product that was available to me at the time until, obviously, when I was later and I started to discover there were tampons and started to use those. But I always had very, very heavy periods and actually when we went to the doctor I was in a lot of pain. They put me on the pill, which I now know is just kind of masked all of those kind of symptoms that I had over the years. So, yeah, that was my start in life, through playing sports and my period experience.
Sue Anstiss:How old were you when they put you on the pill for?
Kelly Newton:you, I was 16. So, yeah, so I was about 14 when I started my period, I think. Do you know what? I think, because of playing sports, always been very active and I was quite a skinny child. My, I don't think I wore my first bra until I was 15, and even then I didn't want to wear this bra. I had to. I used to play. I remember playing sports and we didn't have sports bras in those days either and I just would undo the bra because it was so uncomfortable. I was obviously in the wrong size. I didn't really have a lot of boobs until I left school, and then I didn't do a bit of sport. When I left school, my boobs just got absolutely massive, and I think that's because I wasn't playing as much sport. I don't know. It's very weird, very strange body I've got.
Sue Anstiss:And did it impact your playing sport? Then, when I say your periods came a bit later perhaps than average, but did that impact your the volume of sport?
Kelly Newton:you were playing. It didn't have an impact on the volume of sport I was playing, but I do clearly remember trying to play netball in being in absolute agony and wearing this again, this ginormous sanitary towel which was moving about all over the place and constantly worried about am I leaking through my, my score? You know, is it? You know, can people see it? Is it going to fall out? You know all of that kind of fear, so I do. I do remember all of that, but it never, ever, my peer had never, ever stopped me from playing sport.
Kelly Newton:And I also have a real cold memory of there was a mixed school just up the road from where I lived and every Thursday night they did netball training. I used to go along with my friend Sally. I was, you know, 14, 15. And I clearly remember there was a note that somebody had written themselves to the PE teacher to say that Sansa couldn't do PE that day because they had their period. And I remember so clearly thinking why is your period stopping you from playing sport? I couldn't get my head around why they couldn't continue to play sport. And that was coming from someone who had very heavy, painful periods. I knew back then that sport was really important for me, you know, both mentally and physically, and it kind of got me through a lot of situations. So, yeah, that was a real eye opener for me at that young tender age as well.
Sue Anstiss:It's a really interesting thing, isn't it? Because there's obviously so much research now out there about the impacted periods and stopping teenage girls from playing sport. But I'm similar to you and I always think, oh, I was that sporty girl, but it would never have occurred to me to fake a note to say I couldn't for my period to have stopped me. But similarly it was uncomfortable that whole him worried about leaking. I was a swimmer, so all of those things, but it would never have crossed my mind so. But it is interesting, isn't it? Is that just because we were so we already had got the bug of the sport, that we knew the benefit of it absolutely. And actually, if girls don't have that passion, is it more likely to stop them?
Kelly Newton:I don't know the answer to it, but it's just it's quite interesting, isn't it?
Kelly Newton:whether it's yeah, I think so and you know I always think it comes a lot from, you know, mums taking their girls to sport, or girls seeing their mums or their parents or their brothers or their older sisters playing sports. But I didn't have that. There was nobody in my family who played sports. So for me to get the bug and just, you know, to just to run with it and love it, you know, I think it's quite, quite unusual. I suppose I knew it was something I really wanted to do and I absolutely loved doing it. If I could have just played sports every single day and not gone to any lessons, that would have been the perfect school for me.
Sue Anstiss:We would have been good friends you and I, I think, at school at that time. Yeah, definitely You've gone on, I know to. You've had two boys and you've fostered many children as well too. So I'm really interested to find out more about that and, I guess, how you've shared those different discussions now with your children growing up, whether that generational change, but how it's been different in your family.
Kelly Newton:Yeah, I mean so we fostered for 19 years. In fact, our last foster daughter left the university five weeks ago. So we're currently just me and my husband and our two boys. I've got to say it's lovely. We've we've looked after 28 children over 19 years. So yeah, and the last girls we had, we had them for about 11 years. So we had them from five up until they were, like gone, 18. So and that's four. You had four girls. That had four teenage girls.
Kelly Newton:I mean, I'm not gonna lie, it was really hard. Teenage years were really really, really tough, like teenage girls can be pretty vile. I know boys are hard, but teenage girls can be very, very difficult. But it was. It was great because my mum is amazing. My mum is absolutely amazing. I love my mum to bits.
Kelly Newton:We just didn't talk about those. You know periods and stuff like that, so I was always ultra. We're going to talk about this and I'm not just going to talk to the girls about periods and bladder leaks. You know the boys need to know about this as well. So I mean, when I started my business because I actually was I ended up being diagnosed with endometriosis in my late 30s and had it lasered a couple of times and then they had the coil inserted, the marina coil, and I bled every day for nine months with the marina coil, which is why in the end they said, you know, let's you know, would you think about a hysterectomy?
Kelly Newton:And I was like, give it to me now, kind of thing. I mean, what happened then was I'd started early menopause. I say early. I was in my early 40s, like 10 years ago. I started the menopause when I was 42. But because I suffered so badly with that, it was really important for the kids to really know what was going on with me and to try and understand a little bit about all of the things that I was going through, and I felt that that was as important as they knew about periods as well. So we always talked about what's going to happen to your body from a really early age.
Kelly Newton:So we had a bag ready for the girls so if they did start their period, they knew that they could go. And there was a selection of goods. It wasn't actually my knickers in there at the time, because I hadn't designed the knickers, but one of my poor little foster daughters started when she was nine years old. In fact, two of them started at nine years old and I wasn't here, I was away and so, but bless her, she felt comfortable enough to speak to my husband, who then rang me to explain that this has happened and he has already given her some sanitary towels. And she spoke to me on the phone and she said it's fine, dad sorted me out, it's absolutely fine. And I was like, yeah, she was so brave and yeah, and we talked about it.
Kelly Newton:So everybody, you know, everybody knew about it. I know for a fact that you know my boys would support their girlfriends and, in fact, my boys are always saying can you give them some of your knickers? You know, they know about your knickers, can you? So the girlfriends have the knickers and and I know that they talk to their, their friends at work as well about you know periods and stuff like that. So, and the menopause because they're well versed with the menopause now because of you know how bad my journey was, I think.
Kelly Newton:So, yeah, I just think it's really important to have these conversations very early on and to let them know that you know about about what is a normal period. You know how much blood we should be losing each month and if you are having cramps. You know cramps, to a degree, are a normal part of the period, but if you're suffering for quite a long time and it's pretty severe, then that's not actually normal. And, yeah, to know that we can get support and we need to go and get support if it's not right and we need to be able to advocate for ourself and I think that I did. How we raised our children was to always give them a voice to speak out if something wasn't right and, you know, to be able to advocate for themselves, sometimes to my detriment. It's like, all right enough now, but yeah, I just think it's so important that girls and men, as allies, need to understand about what's going on with women's bodies.
Sue Anstiss:And in terms of your leak-proof pants. How did you first come across the concept? Why did that become such a passion for you to find a solution for women?
Kelly Newton:Well, so firstly, firstly, obviously, having four teenage girls in the house who were all having periods, I was actually starting to get really conscious about how much waste we were producing. I think you know we're going to the bathroom and empty out a sack full of disposable towels and tampons and I was like, oh my god, like this is just our household, what's it like across the world? And I looked at the stats and I think it was like 200,000 tons of waste is produced every year just in the UK alone from disposable pads and tampons. And then you look at what they're made of and they're bleached and we're actually shoving bleached filled cotton wool into the second most absorbent part of our body. So there was that. And then the fact that these products take between 500, 500 to 800 years to decompose, so, like your grandchildren's grandchildren's grandchildren's grandchildren are going to be on the earth with one of your used pads and tampons, I was like, oh God, that's a bit disgusting and they end up on our beaches and a landfill. But then I obviously was suffering with bladder leaks at the time, so I was playing hockey and every time I stretched for the ball a little bit of wee would come out, and towels really really aggravated me, really uncomfortable and I've had a lot of issues down there. I was always having infections, I get UTIs and you know. I just want to make sure that actually what I'm using down there isn't affecting my vaginal health.
Kelly Newton:So I mean, this was probably about eight years ago and I looked online and found that Amazon was selling these leak-proof knickers. I thought, oh God, I'm going to give these a go and I ordered a pair and they were absolutely vile. It was so disgusting. They were huge I mean, some of our knickers are big but they look nice still but they rustled like a crisp packet when I wore them. So I felt like everyone could hear me coming like walking down the road. I was like, oh, this doesn't, and they just felt super uncomfortable and they weren't actually that leak-proof and I felt like I was wearing a nappy. So I thought there's got to be a better way to do this and in my naivety, that's when I thought, right, I'm going to design a pair of knickers that are going to be super discreet, that I can wear underneath my gym leggings and not feel conscious, and they're going to be quiet, um, and there's going to be no plastics in there. So that that's literally where the idea came from.
Kelly Newton:And, obviously, playing hockey, I played with an amazing team of women all around the same age, all different ages, but a lot of them are middle-aged like me and we were going to the toilet before the game. At half time we were running off to go to the toilet again and then straight after the game there was no time for a team huddle because we were all back in that toilet, all conscious that you know, we're going to wet ourselves, kind of thing, and it and it turned into a bit of like there's a lot of women also suffering with the same as me, so I'm not alone, and that's I think you know we started to talk about. There were a great team of women and everyone was exactly the same and I thought, well, actually we need to talk about this a little bit more, because I don't know anybody else talking about these issues and I know that I'm not alone. So that's kind of where the idea came from.
Sue Anstiss:And that's really interesting, isn't it, in terms of you're playing hockey and you're experiencing yourself, but can you tell us a little bit more, I guess, about those often undiscussed, as you say, issues around incontinence and that impact leaking that happens for so many active women, especially in those team sports at an elite level, but just generally for all of us out you?
Kelly Newton:know, playing sport, yeah, so I think the stats say that one in two women will suffer with some degree of urinary incontinence throughout their lifetime. So it's one, sorry, it's one in three, one in three women, but that rises to one in two when you're going through the menopause. So you know a lot of the teams, the team sports that I play. The women are my age, so we are, we're all going through that. But actually there are stats that say that the younger girls I can't remember the exact stat, I think it might be around like the late 40% that young girls also in high impact sports, are suffering with bladder leaks. So you know, it's actually a lot more common than we actually believe it is, but people weren't having those conversations. I mean, obviously, you know you've spoken to Baz from the Well and the great work that she does and she knows what she's talking about. They're bringing the conversations to the forefront now and that's something that we're really passionate about at Nixie as well. We we want to have the conversations that nobody else wants to talk about and I'm very happy to talk about. You know, my bladder leaks, my endometriosis, my menopause, um, connie always says I'll meet somebody for the first time and they will know about my dry vagina within five minutes of talking to them. You know it's, um, I used to be mortified, absolutely mortified, but and I think it was worse when my boys were at school as well just the thought that any of their friends will find me on Instagram, um, and also, we were models at the beginning. We were modeling our knickers at the beginning. So there's a lot of knickers out there, a lot of photos sorry, it's me and my knickers seeing your mum in her pants on the website. Yeah, I've seen your mum's friend. Yeah, your friends. I, yeah, I've seen your mum's yeah, your friend's mum in. Oh, it's just embarrassing, it's mortifying. I used to be so embarrassed. Hopefully we've got all the photos off now. I feel like you know, we've got some fantastic models. We've still got my mum modelling my mum's still yeah, her photo. She's in her knickers everywhere.
Kelly Newton:But I just feel like now I feel a duty to talk about this and we go to events. We do like the running show each year and I always remember there was one woman. She kind of stopped and she looked at the stand and it was quite busy and she walked away and she walked around about three or four times. Eventually the stand was empty and she came up, she went. I thought I was the only one, she said I actually thought I was the only one that this happened to, and we get the most amazing messages from, from customers just saying you've just made such a difference to my quality of life, the fact that I I can now go running and not have to worry about am I going to leak through my knickers. Is everyone going to see? You know, just giving them the confidence to go out and do that sport. And that's literally what it's all been about for me. I just want I know how important it is to keep my body moving and, you know, I just want everybody else to understand that as well that's brilliant.
Sue Anstiss:Brilliant, I think that is if you just think about the numbers of women that might now be coming back to take part in all those things because they feel more confident of something. But yeah, it's a bit heartbreaking, isn't that woman saying she thought she was the only one? But I think we. It is something that we just haven't discussed or, if we have, it's been a bit of a joke or a you know, no one's really openly talked about it in a in a comfortable grown-up. This is happening to us all type fashion yeah, definitely.
Kelly Newton:It just takes one person, I think, to open that conversation. And I mean, we, you know, we talk about women a lot and actually I, you know, if I start the conversation, I always have people come in and talking to me, and it's great. It's actually really difficult for men to talk about this. I think women it's a very taboo subject, it's a very difficult subject to talk about, but we can open up a lot easier than men and it's, you know, in that way, I think it's very beautiful what women have.
Sue Anstiss:We have connections and communities and, yeah, it's so powerful to do that and to have that but, as you say, it's so important, isn't it for your, your boys, so your sons, but for men to be aware of this too. I was thinking when I was doing the introduction to this podcast of almost we're going to talk about leak free, you know, and actually are men going to immediately? Because we do have men that listen to this podcast, who are going to almost switch off because they feel a bit uncomfortable listening, but actually they're the very people I'd love to be listening to this too, because actually and maybe they will maybe it's an opportunity to listen to something they wouldn't want to have a conversation about right now but they might want to know about for their own wives, girlfriends, daughters, et cetera.
Sue Anstiss:And especially in the coaching space too, of the sports coaching too.
Kelly Newton:Exactly. Yeah, I mean, you know it's hard enough, for if you're a male coach and you're coaching younger girls, talking to them about periods because someone's going to feel uncomfortable within that conversation but then to be able to talk about bladder leaks as well, it's very, very difficult. I feel like you know it's. Periods are taboo, but I feel like bladder leaks are actually even more taboo than that, because who wants to be known as that person who's like wetting themselves and maybe smells of wee, like this, is you feel like you. You just feel so unattractive. It's, you know, it's.
Kelly Newton:I feel so lucky that I've got very, very supportive husband and my kids are amazing and they do joke about it, you know, but actually I don't mind about that because we're talking about it.
Kelly Newton:At least it's out there and I don't feel embarrassed about it anymore. And obviously, going into a room full of men, I used to really struggle and I know I think we might talk about funding at some stage, raising investment. I found that mortifying, absolutely. I felt and still now I, still I don't want to go into a room full of men and talk about my issues because I do feel like they're like okay, you know why would I want to invest in this and you know that's just not attractive. But you know, I feel so much more comfortable in groups with women. I'm in so many WhatsApp groups with amazing business women and obviously the Sports Collective. I've got over that, over that kind of embarrassment, but still have a teeny little bit of shame around it, sometimes with men, which is really silly because I talk about it all the time yeah, it's really interesting, isn't it?
Sue Anstiss:and it is that shame, isn't it? Is that that what the word that you would use? I was going to talk about the kind of practical side because, as you say you, I maybe laugh at the whole noisy pants because I remember discovering around that time, but I never thought about that. I've said all the wonderful assets of your products, but not that they're noise free. That's such a key thing, isn't it? But I believe you designed your first pair, so kind of how did that start? And I'm really interested in that. Well, I'm interested in that process. And then the the timeline from your initially creating your own underwear to actually retailing it. How long does that all?
Kelly Newton:take. Oh well, it took a long time anyway, because I just had just started the menopause. So I was not in a very good place. Like I said, I was very, very depressed and low and having panic attacks and whatever, because they didn't think it was the menopause, because they thought I was too young and because they'd left my ovaries in when I had my hysterectomy. They were like, no, you're not going through the menopause. So I didn't get help with HRT for a long time.
Kelly Newton:So what I did? I looked up what's the most absorbent fabric that I can use and it was. It was like this bamboo cotton at the time. It was this bamboo cotton and I bought a load off of eBay and I actually sewed it into a pair of knickers but just to see if it would work. And everyone was like you know they used to. I don't know if I can swear sorry, but it was like they used to call them my pissy pants at hockey. Are you wearing your pissy pants? And I'm like I've got them on and they're great, they're really helping. So it kind of went from there to then designing a pair. I thought, right, okay, I want them to be VPL free. I don't want anyone to be able to see them, and the way that other companies were selling the waistband, which made them really big and bulky. And I don't want them to be that big and bulky but I still want them to be super absorbent. So, yeah, I did all of that. And then I've never worked in business. I've been looking after children for years.
Kelly Newton:I kind of put myself on a couple of courses and then found out that I needed to have a technical pack made. So Googled this, found an amazing woman who makes all of my technical packs now and tell us what a technical pack is. So a technical pack is actually a drawing of the knickers. So we talked, we had a zoom and I said I want them to have a scalloped edge, I want them to be seamless and I want the gusset to be sitting, to sit. That's hiding underneath the bottom, but it needs to be have layers. So I know it's absorbent. So we. So it gives you like the measurement of the knickers, of every part of the knickers, what it's made of, how it needs to be made. That would. That was like the technical pack. So I got that and then I thought right, I need a sample made.
Kelly Newton:So I remember finding this woman again, googling everything and finding this woman. I said I've got this idea, I've got this technical pack. And she literally emailed me back and said I don't think it's a very good idea because there are, there are loads of knickers out like that. Now they're all ready. And I thought I went, oh okay, thanks very much. Because I thought, oh, she, you know, she knows what she's talking about. And then somebody said to me but Kelly, if you're going to Boots, there are like a hundred different shampoos that you can buy. Why can't there be a different pair of knickers? And I was like, yeah, she's right, so I'm going to look for somebody else. And I ended up I wanted everything made in the UK. So I was like you know, this is going to be the best thing ever.
Kelly Newton:It was so difficult.
Kelly Newton:I couldn't find a manufacturer, I couldn't find the fabrics.
Kelly Newton:So I thought, right, I know that they're selling these in China, so I'm going to buy a couple of pairs from some factories in China.
Kelly Newton:I had a couple of pairs sent through and one of them was really, really well made and the lady is a woman who owns the factory. She speaks really good English. So I messaged her and said look, can we have a chat? This is my idea. I have a technical pack. Could you make a sample? And she came back and said yeah, no problem. So I think I was quoted in the UK by this woman who said it wasn't a very good idea. She quoted me 1500 pounds to make one sample and in China it was like it's 150 pounds and I thought, for 150 quid I got two samples made from two different factories and again this one came through and it was exactly what I wanted as a couple of tweaks and that was it. And in my naivety I ordered 4,000 pairs of knickers. I had no idea what I was doing and then, like the panic set in, I'd spent all of my savings for me. My husband was saving to buy a camper van we can talk camper vans another time.
Kelly Newton:Yeah, still haven't got the camper van yet, but it will come, um. So I spent all of my savings on 4,000 pairs of knickers and they came over and I was like, oh my god, what do I do now? And then had to do a um, a photo shoot. Never done that before set up my own. What do I do now? And then I had to do a photo shoot never done that before set up my own website. And then I just thought it was like Kevin Costner, build it and they will come. And it's actually it's not as simple as that.
Kelly Newton:People did start buying from me. I don't know where they found me from, but then I was very, very lucky early days to meet Connie, my co-founder, who's again 20 or years younger than me, very good at social media, she's witty, she's smart, she's away with words and we work together. And, yeah, now it was purely she was doing my social media at the start, and now she's my co-founder and she just actually left to have a baby. She just had a baby two weeks ago, yeah, so she's fulfilling the maternity part of our strapline which is keeping you moving through all of these life stages. So she purely had a baby, just um, for content. I think that's a lie, but yeah, so she's amazing. And yeah, we have a team. Now we've got Claire working with us and she does all of our operations, and we actually have a new social content manager called Rebecca, who started about seven weeks ago. Who's just incredible. Yeah, so we've got a really fantastic team.
Sue Anstiss:Female team and where did your confidence come from? Because I love this story of the whole. Yeah, I'm gonna order 4,000 and I'll sell them. But in terms of that confidence and that you know, and what were your ambitions at the beginning when you did that, did you always see that it, it?
Kelly Newton:would be something. So I always say it's not confidence, it's naivety. I just think I'm a bit. Actually I'm a bit thick as well, because I just always think, oh, it'll be all right. I honestly I said this to somebody yesterday I honestly thought I just need a decent pair of knickers and from that I've built like this ridiculous company that employs people and now makes money and is stocked in boots and on QVC and we're having amazing conversations with people. I do. I sit back and I think who am I?
Kelly Newton:This has been a real evolution for me, because I did start off not knowing what I was doing. I still feel like a little bit of me doesn't know what I'm doing, but I feel like I've got so much more confidence now. I don't know who I am anymore. I don't recognize myself from five years ago. I feel so much more confident in speaking to people. I was a yes person before. I'm very much a no. That doesn't work for me. If that doesn't work for me, I will say no. Actually, you know it's not going to work for me.
Kelly Newton:Take lots of opportunities. I did used to take everything on. I'll do this, we'll do that, we'll do that. And now I'm trying to be a little bit more choosier. I still want to work with everybody, because I want to. You know, I feel like I'm at a stage where I want to support other people now as well. But mentors I've had some amazing female and male mentors, to be honest with you, and I feel like that makes me feel so incredible, knowing that I've got all of these amazing women around me who support me and hopefully in some way I can support them as well, and I think that really really helps my confidence. I look at what they're doing and I think I'm so in awe of what you're doing and I want to emulate you. I want to be like you and, yeah, that I feel that's where it's come from that's brilliant, isn't, isn't it?
Sue Anstiss:And our paths first crossed when Kate Helen and I, as you mentioned earlier, when we were creating the Women's Foot Collective, which was 2020, during COVID, and I think you were such an early supporter of the network, so was that around the time? So 2019? When did the 4,000 pants arrive in your house?
Kelly Newton:They arrived in 2019. Yeah, boxes and boxes arrived in 2019. Yeah, boxes and boxes arrived in 2019. Yeah, and I saw you guys really early on and I was like, oh, I want to be a part of this. This is like you know. Firstly, these women are amazing, but they're doing something that's so incredible within sports and supporting all of these women, and I've just watched it grow and grow and grow. And, like I said earlier, me and Claire were at a basketball match and we saw you and we were like, oh my God, it's Sue and Kate. Me and Claire were at a basketball match and we saw you and we were like, oh my God, it's Sue and Kate. And we followed you around before we built up the confidence to say hello to you. And then I've seen you at quite a few places. We've been to Lewis, haven't we? To the football club? I think we were at Elevate as well. I've seen you there. Yeah, I'm not stalking you.
Sue Anstiss:Honestly, I know it looks that way. Always happy to see you. Well, I was going to say about COVID, so 2020,? Was your band BP3 before you were?
Kelly Newton:Nixie, yeah, we don't like to talk about BP3.
Sue Anstiss:All right, I'll move on from that.
Kelly Newton:No it's a rubbish name. It was a really rubbish name so we liked it. Yeah, we were BP3 at the time. And where did Nixie come from? So what happened was actually I won a 10 grand grant, which was completely unexpected, and a couple of people had said to me BP3 is a really crap name and you need to change it. And I was like, yeah, I know, I know, I just couldn't think of anything else. So we used the 10 grand to basically rebrand. So the Nixie were.
Kelly Newton:They were ancient female goddesses that helped women with their gynecological issues and they were often depicted squatting. So we like this is this is what we do. Yeah, this is us. So, yeah, nick c body came from from that word, actually, and that was our lovely designer, tiff, who we worked with to kind of get that name and get our rebrand in. So every single pair of knicker is named after either a family member who's modeled for me or a friend who's modeled for me. So our suzy knicker, which is our most popular knicker, is my mum. My mum is suzy, she's so proud I love that.
Sue Anstiss:That's so lovely and that opportunity can do whatever you like, can't you? It's your business, but I love your thing to. Everything's going to give people. I was gonna say so you. You said you're in your early 40s, perimenopause or starting a new business, but what would you? What advice would you give now to other women who might be listening to this and think, well, they've got an idea or a thought. You know what advice to distill down, but what would you?
Kelly Newton:say. I mean you have to. You have to have a belief in yourself from the start. You don't listen to people who are poo-pooing you, but surround yourself. Surround yourself by amazing women who are poo-pooing you, but surround yourself, surround yourself by amazing women. That's what I've done and I feel like this is just grown into something so huge because of the people that I've got around me. It's so important to network, definitely to go out and network. Be confident in your ideas. You're going to make mistakes. I made so many mistakes. I'm still making expensive mistakes today. I always say to people oh, you learn from your mistakes. I don't learn from my mistakes, I'm still making them. But yeah, just surround yourself and ask people questions. People are always keen to help.
Kelly Newton:I used to feel really embarrassed asking people for help in the beginning. I used to think people are going to judge me and think that I'm stupid or whatever. I now think people love to help other people and I have reached out to so many quite high up people who are like yeah, I'll give you half an hour of my time or offer to take someone for a coffee. If they've got time, they'll come for a coffee and you can kind of get all of these answers out of you, but be kind. I think there's a lot to be said for being kind to people, because people remember that and they'll always come back to you and maybe a relationship that you build from the beginning doesn't kind of evolve into anything. But I think just recently somebody contacted us that I'd spoken to probably about four years ago and they'd remembered me and now we're doing some work together. So you know you've got to be in it for the long run. But I think the most important thing is to surround yourself with great women.
Sue Anstiss:That's lovely to hear. I hear, hear, I hear. I agree with that. Um, I was just gonna ask, I guess, in terms of challenges and you have said the kind of mistakes made and things, but, but do you have those kind of sleepless nights and the pressure of, or, um, you know, I guess, how do you deal with that? Because that is the stressful part, isn't it? As you're building? You're building this magnificent thing, but obviously it comes with with that too yeah, I mean I have.
Kelly Newton:I had recently more waking up at three o'clock in the morning with that oh my god, and everything's really highlighted how you know it feels so much worse at three o'clock in the morning. It's generally cash flow. To be honest with you, it was always cash flow. I know. I know that we've got an amazing business, but there's always a problem with cash flow. And that's probably my biggest fear. Not now because we've had funding, but that was always my biggest fear. Have I got enough money that needs to come in so I can pay for that? So then that can go out and we can grow that.
Kelly Newton:Going through the menopause, I think was probably worse. You know, having those kind of issues and anxiety through that HRT has really, really helped me. But I don't think I would have, I wouldn't have built the company if I wasn't going through the menopause. So I'm quite great, I'm actually quite grateful for having the menopause and I do feel like I've come through. I'm still menopausal, but I've come through that horrible anxiety stage and whatever. I feel like such a strong, powerful woman now and I feel like that's just my stage of life. But that's not just being on HRT. I think it is surrounding myself by such amazing supportive women and men. I can't keep saying just women, because I've got some. You know, my husband is amazing. He's so supportive of everything that I do and there are other men that have really helped me on my journey, but basically I just like women.
Sue Anstiss:I love working with women. It's so much nicer. It's interesting I wasn't this wasn't the route of the podcast, but it's really interesting that post-menopause and I'm older than you, so I'm through that's about the impact of of HRT and all of those on me now feeling I can take in anything, I feel confident, I feel strong, I feel the best I've ever felt in terms of business. Obviously, I'm now doing something very different to what I was doing 25 years ago running the agency, but I just feel like in this fabulous not almost unchallengeable but yeah, I can go and do that.
Sue Anstiss:If I want to do that, it's like a really different place to be, and I think we often think about that older women as getting a bit frail and not quite there, but actually it's almost. This is the point, I think, where I feel the strongest, most able to deliver whatever it is I want to do, than I've ever felt in my life absolutely.
Kelly Newton:Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. I really do. I just feel like nothing is too large for me to be able to cope with now. I used to get like if I'd something come up and it used to stress me out and I'd be worried and crying and stressing out about it and I couldn't deal with it. But now, if something comes in and I think, okay, that's quite a big task. I don't know if I feel mentally prepared to do that quite yet, so I'm going to leave that and I'll deal with it later. Whereas in the past I would be fretting and crying and, yeah, you're so right, we're in this new era now where I just feel like throw it at me, you just throw it at me and I'm just going to deal with it. I'm not even scared anymore. Yeah, there's so many, you know.
Kelly Newton:Just going to events now. I used to hate going. I actually would never, ever go If I was meeting friends. I'd never walk into a pub on my own. I'd walk around the block and be 10 minutes late, so I wasn't the first one in the pub because I used to get real anxiety about that. I'd never sit and eat dinner on my own if I was out traveling.
Kelly Newton:I actually was on business in Scotland recently and for the first time in my life I'm 53, I had dinner on my own. I went to a restaurant, didn't have a book or a magazine, didn't get my phone out, and I sat quite confidently and I could see people looking at me and I was like look at me, look at me, look how brave I am. You know, I felt felt really amazing and I didn't just go straight back to the hotel and lock the door and sit in the room on my own. I did a little bit of sightseeing and that, I just feel, has come with age. That's definitely I. Age has brought a new confidence to me. Yeah, I totally agree with you, sue. It's a great way to feel, isn't it? I just absolutely.
Sue Anstiss:We want to all those younger women to know it's very gets very positive in the future too, doesn't it? Yes?
Kelly Newton:it really does like you're right. People talk about getting older and you know how frail you become and how sad your little, your little life is. But actually, you know, my kids are grown up now. Me and my husband are so excited for our next, our next year. You know, we're trying to get them to move out. It's proving quite difficult, um, but you know, once they're out, we're going to be off, we're going to be traveling, we're going to be doing, we're going to get that camper van and we're going to be doing like living our life again. It's so exciting. I love it.
Sue Anstiss:I love it you mentioned earlier in terms of funding and that accessing funding, and I do know the cash flow challenges of running a business and I know that you have been seeking investment and you've got investment now, but we do often hear that female entrepreneurs have a harder time in finding that funding, just generally, but also within the sports space too. So what has your experience been there?
Kelly Newton:Yeah, so I mean, for a long time I was very resistant to funding but then realised that actually the stage where we were at we actually needed it to grow to be even bigger we were at. We actually needed it to grow to be even bigger. So we took on um an advisor female advisor, who was amazing and she helped to prepare us. It's taken us about a year to prepare, to get ready, to go out to pitch and honestly, I speak to so many different people and so many people like it's a brilliant product. Let me know when you're um you're looking to raise like. These are all men, by the way, that I've met throughout you. You know different events and I was. I actually thought this is going to be really easy. These people know me, they know my product, they think it's amazing and actually when I sent it out to people, I just got blanked. It was like tumbleweed. I was so shocked. I was like but you said it was a really good product and now you're just like ignoring me. I think the problem is obviously it's a very taboo subject that we're dealing with. It's a very niche product. We've actually targeted it towards the sporting you know, the female within sports and, again. Female sport is so on the rise and I just honestly thought it was going to be a. Really I was very naive, again very naive. I just thought it was going to be really easy for us to do. To be fair, we did get investment from one investor and it we closed the round in six weeks. So from the time we opened the round to be closing it was six weeks and having the money in the account, this guy is amazing. He is so supportive. He's somebody that I've known for a long time. He's actually a friend of my husband's again, very, very lucky. He was in our circle and I think that it's so important to look within your inner circle of people. But he has watched us. He's watched me grow, for you know, the past five years, six years, and he said you know, I know you've got an amazing product, but I also know how hard you work. I've watched you and I'm investing in you and your team. I'm not investing just in your company. So he's taken a step back. He's introduced me to a couple of people that have you know, actually we're hoping to work with as well, but he's almost just like our silent partner. So my story is very, I think probably very, very unique, because we know that women tend to get. I think at the moment it's less than 2%, it's probably just over 1%, so it's gone down. I know in the last year, how much were you looking to, how much you're hoping to, we raised 300k. So it's not, it's not huge, it's actually big. It's pretty big, you know, for our first, for our first raise, and that money is going to be sent spent on marketing, on salaries, on stock and yeah, just kind of things like that. So we've already taken on one member of staff.
Kelly Newton:I'm trying to be really frugal because, as a mum always had six kids, I've always had a budget to deal with and I've I'm very good with a budget, very good with a budget. But then we had a. We had a meeting the other week where apparently I was being a bit tight with the budget. So because I'm I'm constantly watching it thinking, oh, I don't want that to go below that and that you know. So apparently I was being a being a bit tight and we weren't sticking to our plan, so I've had to kind of let go a little bit. Again, it's a real learning curve for me. I've never been the CEO of a company before, so I'm dealing with all of these things that are really alien to me. So we're all growing and learning together at the same time, but I've got a really amazing support network around me.
Kelly Newton:We've got a couple of amazing advisors.
Kelly Newton:So Julia Elliot Brown she's one of our advisors got Claire Robinson.
Kelly Newton:I met actually met Claire Robinson.
Kelly Newton:She's ex Reebok and Adidas, met her on the women in football and zero entrepreneur partnership program, which was absolutely incredible, and we've had so many opportunities from that and I still meet up with all of the women that were on there.
Kelly Newton:And then our other advisor is a guy called john dennis. He's a wonderful man. He's great. He owns a company called fit brand, so he's in the sport industry. He knows a lot of people and he's actually our distributor. You know we're now stocked in. We're going to be launching in up and running at the end of the month. We're in yeah run company in all of their stores in the running hub, and he started the conversations with us with parkrun as well, so we're actually on parkrun's website in a shop and we sell out all the time on there, which is incredible for us. So, yeah, so I've got a great team. And then I've got my mentor from the zero and women in football program was laura youngson, who, yay, who we all know and love um and laura is the yeah, the founder of ida and also a guest in this series as well, too, which is a lovely coincidence, yeah, and she's just had her third baby.
Kelly Newton:She's an absolute machine. I just am in complete awe of laura. She's been an incredible um you know influence for me and and then I mean then there's lucy Peabree Bras as well, I think you might be talking to.
Kelly Newton:Lucy, she's gonna be a guest as well, she's been incredible for us as well, so supportive and you know, again, we I'm hoping that we do help each other out, but we connected. Actually, I think it was because of the women's sports collective. I think we kind of spotted each other. But I've actually worked with quite a few of the women who I've met through the WSC, from our zoom calls and kind of reaching out when you see someone's part of the same collective of you, like, oh okay, we should connect on LinkedIn and so many connections that I've made. Yeah, so lovely to hear.
Sue Anstiss:I was gonna ask you. I was gonna ask you just leading in from that, so that whole we talk about women's sport being this really collaborative space in terms of people sharing news, et cetera, and sports teams and leagues across that supporting each other rather than always competing. I'm going to ask you this, and it sounds like from what you've just said, it is the case, but is that the same in the female product space, with different brands and companies seeming to collaborate?
Kelly Newton:Absolutely, yes, definitely. We're on a breakout WhatsApp group and we are all entrepreneurs, all female entrepreneurs, who all make products to keep girls and women playing sports and being active. So, yeah, there's quite a lot of us on there, but we do all support each other, like if we're at an event. We try to collaborate with each other, we share information. I think sometimes it might be a little bit difficult if you've got exactly the same product as somebody else. There's going to be a little bit of gatekeeping and I can understand that. You know you're working hard to build your brand.
Kelly Newton:We started as our brand around the sports arena. It was always around the sports arena. We kind of lost our way a little bit because we were starting to like. Our target audience is actually really vast. It's nine-year-old girls can wear our period products up to like. I had a lady who's about 98 who used to ring up to buy her knickers for her bladder leaks. So I feel like we lost our way a little bit, but then it came back to do. You know what I want to keep everybody moving and looking at the stats of how many girls give up playing sports, because you know, back periods are such a barrier to participation. So you know that we kind of went back to that and and now it's more of it's a collaborative thing with all of these women.
Kelly Newton:And I think I do speak for everybody when I say you know, we do really, really support each other. And it's so nice when you go to an event and you see someone you know that you can like connect with and and try to work with together, and you see someone you know that you can like connect with and try to work with together, and you know I mean watch this space, as I said before, watch this space. There's some really exciting things happening with all of these amazing female entrepreneurs in the sporting world. There's yeah, I can't speak about it, it's really frustrating, but you'll know soon. And yeah, we know soon that you know anyway, but you can't tell anybody. But there's some really exciting stuff coming up and this has been collaborative and and I've got to say Laura has has driven it from from the very start. Laura, and actually Martha from Fab Little Bag as well, was the one that kind of put it, this idea, into everyone's head. So yeah, it's exciting, it's so exciting.
Sue Anstiss:And do you personally get frustrated when you see the big brands now taking up that space, but maybe not doing it with the passion and the authenticity and the expertise that you have?
Kelly Newton:yeah, I did used to get really worried. I used to think, oh my god, they're going to copy my design, they're going to come in and do this and do that. But if you look at the likes of Nike and Adidas, you know they're bringing out similar products, but it's a very tiny part of what they're offering. So they're looking at it like we're not going to make a lot of money out of this. What I look at is, I think, well, actually you're raising the, the profile of these products. So it's because the people know that they're out there.
Kelly Newton:So you know, I know primark do period knickers, now marks and spencers do period knickers and sometimes there's this whole oh my god. But if it's actually really good for women to have choice, you know my, my knickers might not, they might not be for everybody, and that's great that there's something else out there that will help you to still participate in sport, to be able to manage your period better, to give you that, you know, a new, innovational way of having a period. So that's really good. I used to get really worried. Now I'm just glad that you know they're. They're elevating the fact that this product's out there and hopefully at some stage people will find us and buy us and love us and use us forever yeah, absolutely.
Sue Anstiss:And what are the biggest challenges that you face right now, then? So, is it around awareness? Is it around enough product out there? Is it about listings and distribution, like where are the difficult points for you in terms of your growth?
Kelly Newton:yeah, I think it's brand awareness definitely. You know we've been going, for people always like, oh, so you're a new brand. It's actually no, we've been going for five years, but I feel like we're a brand challenger. Definitely that's quite difficult and also actually with the again, the rise of women's sport is amazing, but now you've got all of these brands that are wanting to get into the big teams and you know it's very difficult for we haven't got the budget to be able to support and we really wish we had the budget. We want to get in and we want people to be paid and you know girls should be paid professionally, like men are. So it's great to see that that's on the rise. But actually that worries me. It's like, are we going to kind of miss the boat on that? I honestly think we're getting there. We're getting the big listings. You know we're speaking to some really exciting people. I was recently in Poland and they were a little bit backward on products like this, but we launched last year with a distributor and it's growing and growing and it was really lovely to meet all of these people that own the shops that we're stocked in over in Poland and it's you know, we're doing that there, then we need to emulate that.
Kelly Newton:I always thought that you had to really focus and nail the UK market before you went anywhere else. But recently did I listen to this podcast? It was like actually no, this just might not be the best market for your product. You know, maybe you need to take it to the Middle East, maybe you need to do that market for your product. You know you, maybe you need to take it to the middle east, maybe you need to do that. So that's, that's something else that we really kind of want to focus on and start to look at, you know, international markets, because I think there's such a big market for us and in terms of education for girls and mothers and fathers, in terms of putting girls into these pants, because it's almost like a bit of a no.
Sue Anstiss:I had three girls myself. It was almost like. It was almost like that no-brainer of like why would I not have had? I guess they weren't around at the time. But even now, as they're older, where does that change that shift? And I guess it is for some. I know there's conversation on the sports bras. Sometimes it can be the cost it can be, but actually with this, in terms of how much you on sanitary protection across their life period products, god, apparently you know the equation must be that it's better to buy these. So where does that need to?
Kelly Newton:shift that education piece. Yeah, so I think people do say there is an initial outlay to buy in these knickers. So if you were to buy five pairs of, say, my suzy knickers, you'd pay about 80 quid, but they would last you about three years. Over three years you would be spending and this is just on organic tampons or pads you'd be spending about 180 quid. But not just that. You're not contributing to all of the waste that's ending up on our beaches and our landfills. Your vaginal health will probably thank you for it as well.
Kelly Newton:There's a lot of people that I've spoken to, not necessarily using my products, but they're saying that they've switched, they've made the switch from disposable to reusables and finding that their cramps aren't as bad. So there's, you know, there's something to be said about maybe how these products, these disposable products, are affecting, you know, your vaginal and your hormonal health. So yeah, I think, definitely as an education piece, we try to do a lot of that on our social media, our blogs as well, our website. I feel like we're quite, I feel like we're pretty informative on on all of our social channels. So how do we get out to these girls to to get the message across? A lot of it is also that you use the products that your mom was using, and and again, there's not been a lot of innovation.
Kelly Newton:I mean, I used a menstrual cup. When I was towards having the end of having my, I found out about the menstrual cup. My mates thought I was an absolute weirdo because I was using a menstrual cup. It was the best thing I'd ever had. Actually, we work with a unicorn menstrual cup, a lady called Julie. She's fantastic, she's so educational and she always says it's about education. You know, she's trying to sell this menstrual cup and people are like, oh, that's disgusting, like oh, why would you put that inside your vagina? And she said it's like it's about education and we just need to keep getting it out there and pushing it and pushing it and hopefully we get a lot of our sales through word of mouth. So people are telling their friends, who are telling their friends, and it's just going to keep growing like that.
Sue Anstiss:And I guess you've alluded to some of the collaboration stuff that's happening in this space. But in terms of Nixie Body, just in closing, really your future plans for the growth you talked, international space perhaps, but what are your kind of overall plans and ambition for Nixie Body?
Kelly Newton:So I mean we have some really great partnerships already. So we've partnered up with Scottish Hockey, who been amazing. They have really supported their female athletes. So there's there's a few of us working with them actually Fab Little Bag. There's Unicorn PB Bras as well. So we are collaboratively, have worked with them, which has been amazing. We've worked with Wales Lacrosse as well, which has been super and Bounce. So we we want to work with all of these kind of like um sports, basically sports um teams and companies, and not just the big ones. We've actually again, I can't say it we're just about to announce a partnership with like one of the biggest sports in the uk that's the females play. I can't say you might work it out. I can't say but once that's announced and I can tell you I'll put it in the show notes the females play. I can't say you might work it out, but I can't say but once that's announced, then I can tell you.
Sue Anstiss:I'll put it in the show notes afterwards, if we can announce it.
Kelly Newton:Yeah, we're talking to a lot of big teams at the moment, but not just big teams. We want to support from grassroots up. So we have a really great affiliate scheme that if people within your club use the code, then you get a commission, so clubs can actually get cash back from that. I've got to say, actually we work with um athletics, bromley, but bromley athletics club I'm going to start wrong, claire's going to go mad, mad.
Kelly Newton:It's bbahc who and they've been amazing and we want to support all of their athletes. So, yeah, there's lots that that's the kind of. Next stage for us is to to try and support, not just with the knickers but with education and hopefully with with a little bit of cash as well, because you know, we're just so passionate about girls having to play these, these sports, and if you haven't got the teams there, then we're not going to be able to go out and play these, these games. So we want to be able to support us in as different and many different ways as we can brilliant and in terms of you personally in the business, and you're growing.
Sue Anstiss:What's your, your long-term goal? Just to keep it growing and thriving and get that camper van yeah, I want to get that camper van eventually.
Kelly Newton:Um, yeah, I just, I love what I do. I live and breathe what I'm doing, you know, like this is, this is more than a full-time job to me. This is, this is my life. I love it. I want to keep educating people. I want to yeah, I want to grow it, keep growing it and eventually retire and travel around the world in my little camper van. This, the dream for me is we're working so hard and and at the end of all of this, I want to be off traveling with my husband. Maybe my kids can come for a little bit and just just look back and just think what an amazing thing that we've done. Just literally, I needed a decent pair of knickers and now I have a fully fledged, like quite positive and you know great company, and I just feel really proud of everything we've achieved. And, yeah, people like you have really helped us to to kind of launch this, and the community that you've built is absolutely incredible and I'm so proud to be a part of it. So thank you.
Sue Anstiss:If you'd like to hear from more trailblazers like Kelly. There are over 200 episodes of the Game Changers podcast that are free to listen to on all podcast platforms or from our website at fearlesswomencouk. Along with elite athletes, guests include coaches, entrepreneurs, broadcasters, scientists, journalists and CEOs all women who are changing the game in women's sport. As well as listening to all the podcasts on the website, you can also find out more about the Women's Sport Collective, a free, inclusive community for all women that work in sport. We now have over 8,500 members across the world, so please do come and join us.
Sue Anstiss:The whole of my book Game On the Unstoppable Rise of Women's Sport is also free to listen to on the podcast. Every episode of Series 13 is me reading a chapter of the book. Thank you once again to Sport England for backing the Game Changers and the Women's Sport Collective with the National Lottery Award, and to Sam Walker at what Goes On Media, who does such a brilliant job as our executive producer. Thank you also to my lovely colleague at Fearless Women, kate Hannan. You can find the Game Changers on all podcast platforms, so please do follow us now and you won't miss out on future episodes. Do come and say hello on social media, where you'll find me on LinkedIn and Instagram at Sue Anstis the Game Changers fearless women in sport.
