The Game Changers
In this award-winning podcast Sue Anstiss talks to trailblazers in women sport. These are the individuals who are knocking down barriers and challenging the status quo for women and girls everywhere. Along with openly sharing their historic careers, what drives them and how they’ve dealt with tough challenges, each episode explores key issues for equality in sport and beyond.
We’re incredibly grateful to Sport England who support The Game Changers through a National Lottery award.
You can find out about all the guests at https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Fearless Women in Sport
The Game Changers
Penny Briscoe: Leading the transformation of Para Sport
As we look forward to the Paralympics at Paris 2024, we're sharing this previous episode with Director of Sport, British Paralympic Association Penny Briscoe,
which was first released on June 27, 2023.
Our guest in this episode has been instrumental in the success of the British Paralympic team, helping them to achieve record-breaking medal hauls at 10 Paralympic Summer and Winter Games.
Penny Briscoe competed for Great Britain in Canoe Slalom before becoming Senior National Coach for the GBR team at the Atlanta 1996 and Sydney 2000 Olympic Games. She has worked in para sport as coach, team manager, performance director and is now Director of Sport at the British Paralympic Association and is also the Chef De Mission for Paralympics GB. In 2017, Penny was awarded an OBE for her services to disability sport.
In this fascinating conversation we explore Penny’s path into para sport and how the role and profile of the British Paralympic Association has changed over 20 years.
Penny shares the enormous impact of London 2012, the challenges that followed in Rio 2016 and Tokyo 2021, and her ambitions for Paris 2024.
If you’d like to hear from other senior women leading British sport, previous episodes of The Game Changers include interviews with Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson, Sally Munday OBE, Dame Liz Nichol, Dame Katherine Grainger, Sue Day MBE, Baroness Sue Campbell and Clare Connor CBE.
Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.
Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media
A Fearless Women production
Hello and welcome to the Game Changers. I'm Sue Anstiss, and this is the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazing women in sport. What can we learn from their journeys as we explore some of the key issues around equality in sport and beyond. I'd like to start with a big thank you to our partners, sport England, who support the game changers through a national lottery award. My guest today has been instrumental in the success of the British Paralympic team, helping them to achieve a record-breaking medal haul at 10 Paralympic summer and winter Games.
Sue Anstiss:Penny Briscoe competed for Great Britain in Canoe Slalom before becoming Senior National Coach for the British team at the Atlanta 1996 and Sydney 2000 Olympic Games. She's worked in Parasport as a coach, team manager and performance director and is now Director of Sport at the British Paralympic Association. She's also the chef de mission for Paralympics GB. In 2017, enny was awarded an OBE for her services to disability sport. Penny, I'd like to start at Loughborough, if I can, as I hadn't realised until I was doing my research that we were both there at the same time for a year in 1988. And I think you were there doing a PGCE, so was the plan always to become a teacher? It?
Penny Briscoe:It was half a plan. I think I grew up being a sport mad kid. Anything to do with sport was my bag and as I got to do my O levels at the time it's that far off fact it was like decision time. What was I going to do? What was I going to do for my A levels and then what was I going to do beyond my A levels and in sport at that time, as a female, there were probably only two options. One was being a PE teacher, the other was probably being a physio, and I didn't really see too much else and I didn't really see myself in the science space. So I kind of went down the PGCE route. So I did my undergrad at Birmingham. I did history and PE, which was brilliant, and then I went to Loughborough to do my PGCE, which again was a fabulous year and I think in many ways provided huge inspiration for me as a teacher, then as a coach.
Sue Anstiss:And so why not PE or teaching? Because actually that was my route when I first went there. I, like you, similar time, but wanted to be a PE teacher. So what was the point to which you changed, you think?
Penny Briscoe:Well, I taught for six years in secondary ed here in Nottingham and then I did a year in, or just under a year actually, at Stafford College.
Penny Briscoe:So I did enjoy teaching but it was too much of an opportunity. There was a sort of a short-term role came up for for a full-time coach to work with within British Canoeing. There was a national performance coach but they were recruiting an additional coach for the Atlanta Games and I hadn't taken that leap of faith as an athlete to sort of train full time and see how good I could be, and I always regretted that, that I didn't really achieve my dreams as an athlete, always working full time and never really having the optimal training environment, and this was my chance at redemption to do something that I was really proud of. So I took that leap of faith, took a nine-month contract with the British Canoe Union and became that assistant Olympic coach as it was in that first year and then lottery funding came towards the back end of 97 or 96 into 97 and then I got a full-time contract. So I took a leap of faith and then was in the right place at the right time to be able to sort of maximise that opportunity.
Sue Anstiss:That's fantastic to hear, isn't it? And obviously you were almost pre that lottery funding yourself as an athlete. Do you think, had there been that funding, you would have continued a longer career competing yourself?
Penny Briscoe:That's an interesting question.
Penny Briscoe:And I think there was funding coming into British canoeing because we were one of the best nations in the world, but it tended to be the old Foundation of Sport and Arts or the SAF, so there were just not too many awards.
Penny Briscoe:There were some good awards, but they were, you know, we had world champions and olympic medalists and and I was kind of just below that tier of athlete. I think the biggest issue for me is I picked up a lot of injuries and I think that that was probably working full-time, always seeming to be on the go, training at the wrong times of the day, not really recovering, not focusing on prehab, let alone rehab. My shoulders were, were just absolutely shot to pieces. So I think I sort of retired gracefully, without ever saying I'd retired, but knowing that I wasn't going to go to Atlanta as an athlete and just wanting to take that opportunity to be at a games I just really dreamt of, of taking that opportunity and and I did. And you know I'm really proud of what I achieved as a coach for British Canoe and as the only female full-time coach in the program at that time and had an incredible experience as being part of those two Olympic summer game cycles.
Sue Anstiss:And what was it like being a coach at those games? And I think, such a fantastic opportunity for you as a young coach or a newer coach really too.
Penny Briscoe:Yeah, I'd always coach not always coach, but I'd, you know, teach, and I guess my thing is helping others, whether it be teaching, whether it be coaching. So even when I was doing my undergrad I supported the GB juniors and then I worked with the Welsh squad, I did some private coaching. So from you know my sort of late teens, early twenties, I sort of got into coaching because it was the sort of a natural synergy with the direction I was going in as a teacher, always enjoyed it, you know, I probably enjoyed it because it was my sport and I was so passionate about my sport and and wanting to be part of it and I guess, knowing I wasn't going to succeed as an athlete, well, you know, could I, could I achieve something as a coach? So to be part of the, of the setup going into Sydney was hugely exciting and we didn't have our best games. It was I don't know if you remember, sue, but 1996 the british media dubbed team gb as the team of shane. I think it was the worst set of results in something like 36 years or something. And um, as a gb canoeing squad we went in with high hopes. We'd had a great world championship, the home world championships.
Penny Briscoe:In 1995 we went in with medal potential pretty well in every class and um the you know that it's fine margins in in white walking her in and um, a couple of couple of things went against us. Lynn ray should have, could have medaled, paul ratcliffe could have. He was sort of the up-and-coming gareth marriott. We had great athletes and we just didn't have the best games. And you know I felt I felt sad with the sort of the up and coming Gareth Marriott. We had great athletes and we just didn't have the best games.
Penny Briscoe:And you know I felt sad with the sort of some of the press that we had, because nobody goes into a major championship trying to fail. You know there was so much hard work that had gone in, there was so much potential within that team and you know we bounced back at the World Cup final just a few weeks later and thankfully, you know we went forward as a team and and I think, keeping tennessee lyle and his medals, multiple medals at every game since then. Sydney was a different experience. Paul ratcliffe got silver and you know we had some great supporting results as well and um, you know I guess that first game um was of mixed experiences but it kind of got me hooked and I just love that multi-sport, the pressure of that once every four-year environment, and I just wanted more. So that was me started really.
Sue Anstiss:And we don't see, do we many elite female coaches at that top end Olympics and Paralympics. So what was it like at the time, you know, in 96, 2000? Was it any different then?
Penny Briscoe:no, I mean I think I was probably the only female on the circuit at that time and and where you found your company was that a lot of physios tended to be female. So, going back to my original analogy of what do you do if you're a female and you want to excel in sport and um, a big, big ally of mine was Julie Stark, who was a still part of the EIS system, and we were kind of the two females in a very male dominated coaching team. But you know, it's that diversity, isn't it, which helps create environments where both athletes and staff can thrive. So I think it was a great step forward for British Canoeing and I was probably one of the few in the UK system at that time that was full-time, professional, and so you know, I kind of hope that it did pave the way for others and it's certainly now a more diverse workforce, which it quite likely should be. But there's still work to do, isn't there?
Sue Anstiss:absolutely, and what do you think makes it a great coach?
Penny Briscoe:I think from my personal experiences, it's kind of just being yourself, I think you've got to be. You've got to be passionate about what you do in. In my belief, I think at times I was probably a bit too passionate and that was certainly one of the things that through my career I've had to sort of curb a little bit and and learn to sort of flex my style rather than full out passion all of the time, which I think is quite wearing for others. But I think from my perspective that I would say the synergy between teaching and coaching, so being well prepared for your sessions, making sure that you communicate early, you communicate appropriately, I think, just being ambitious in terms of, I guess, working with like-minded people, setting the ground rules.
Penny Briscoe:So I coached a few young athletes early on, very talented GB young athletes, but working with them to sort of balance studies with training, with having some sort of social life and and how that sort of ebbs and flows through the year and I guess, getting to know the individual, getting to know their family, their personal circumstances and to sort of create the right environment, because every athlete is different, every athlete responds differently to coaching style and I think it's marrying up the individual athlete or that group of athletes, think it's marrying up the individual athlete or that group of athletes with you as a as a coach, and your preferences and and trying to get the best out of each other.
Penny Briscoe:So you know, it's definitely a check and challenge environment. I think it has to be open and honest. But I think you know the critical thing is creating safe and secure environments where you can be yourself and you can say how you feel and that's on both sides and have you seen a change in the culture around coaching elite athletes from, I mean 30 years ago, as you started out at Atlanta and so on.
Sue Anstiss:Does it feel like it's a different place? That's?
Penny Briscoe:a really interesting question and I think that you know the world has moved on, hasn't it? In the last 30 years, and I think we're different generations. I was a different generation as an athlete, as I was as a coach, as I now am as a director and leader, and I think we have to respond to how generational changes have impacted in what athletes want from their sport, what they want from, you know, their careers. I think there has been a change. I think, really, we have to listen, we have to understand and not just make assumptions, you know, as to what. What athletes want now is quite different and how they want to be coached, how they want to be communicated with.
Penny Briscoe:Yeah, I mean, I I think it has shifted and but I think we had great coaches pre-lottery and I think we've still got great coaches. Yes, we've had challenges in the system, um, but I think we, when you know we're addressing those challenges and again, quite likely, you know, health, well-being of athletes, health and well-being of staff should be paramount to the system If it's going to be sustainable, if it's going to be healthy, if it's going to be positive, you know, from a cultural perspective.
Sue Anstiss:Absolutely, absolutely. You joined the British Paralympic Association in 2001. So what first attracted you to the BPA and working in para sport?
Penny Briscoe:It wasn't directly the BPA that I was looking to. So again, this is kind of one of those unintended consequences of a coach excel. I think it was back in the day catch-up session with Rosie Mays. I'd said to her you know, maybe looking for change I've been in this sport for over 30 years now as an athlete and coach and maybe have something different to look forward to post-Sydney, maybe looking for change. I've been in this sport for over 30 years now as an athlete and coach and maybe maybe have something different to look forward to post Sydney, maybe do a bit less traveling. I remember saying to her she said oh, there's a couple of great jobs with David Tillotson at the British Paralympic Association coming up and maybe you should apply. And I thought, okay, I'll have a look at that. And they were. I think they were called program managers at that time. So I went for an interview, got one of the roles. Joss Hoyt-Smith later joined the VPA for a short while in a similar role and then I probably spent the first six months thinking I'm not sure this is what I expected.
Penny Briscoe:I think I applied, thinking that Olympic sportic sport, paralympic sport were in, were parallel at that time. You know they were. They were just slightly different environments, but the reality was para sport was was quite developmental. You know, the reality is we were only formed as a bpa in 1989, so the first games as a paralympmpic GB was 1992. So whilst our movement was formed out of the atrocities of World War II, our movement is still relatively young compared to it, to our Olympic counterparts. So there hadn't been a lot of investment that you know. The team had had success, but it was quite developmental. There were pockets of good practice, but I think in 2001 we had two full-time coaches or directors, one was in athletics and one was in swimming, and so the the environment that I came into was quite different and and I didn't necessarily feel that the sort of that development side was my, was my skill set.
Penny Briscoe:You know, I was used to working with elite athletes, a successful Olympic program, and it was one of those, I guess, moments where I just needed to sort of sit and just reflect and and where I got to was I can throw stones from the outside, you know, saying well, this isn't what I was expecting, or I can kind of roll my sleeves up and really step inside and try and make a difference, and and that was what I decided to do, that I would try and learn and understand this new environment because that effectively was what it was and try and use my skills and experiences from Olympic sport and and that was everything from world-class start to potential through to the elite level and and try and take those learnings as an athlete, as a coach, as a you know, we we co-wrote the the first world class plan in that post Atlanta period try and take all of those, I guess, skills and experiences and bring them to bear in this new environment. And you know it was. It was quite humbling. I learned an awful lot from, from one of my colleagues, kaz Walton, who was a, I guess, pioneers of para sport, multiple gold medalist. As an athlete, still works for the British Paralympic Association now and learned so much from her about para sport, worked with great people in the BPA and the system from sort of 2001 onwards just kind of started to evolve. There wasn't the same level of investment into Olympic sport but that really did take a massive step forward when the home games were announced in 2005.
Penny Briscoe:But I remember quite visibly sort of just taking things back to basics and talking about, you know, working with British athletics and how do we manage expectations of the athletes? How do we move not only British athletics para program but the global, I guess, guess para sport program forward in terms of taking these pockets of best practice and actually using those role models that? You know, tanny Gray Thompson, you know we had some brilliant, brilliant athletes. How do we take how they work and make that the norm? So, you know, almost raising the bar for every single athlete that comes on to a program. So we did a program called beyond goals. Yes, we could win goals, but we wanted more than that. We wanted to, you know, professionalize the system, how we train, how we prepare, how we coach, how we manage. And so it was kind of that's where it started and um, and then it, you know, the movement has just grown massively, hasn't it?
Sue Anstiss:And you mentioned that obviously Paralympics was born in the UK and we've got this long and proud history. But how is the BPA viewed globally?
Penny Briscoe:I think the British Paralympic Association is really well respected. Clearly we're hugely successful down to the talented athletes and their really dedicated support staff. Down to the talented athletes and their really dedicated support staff. We feature highly on the medal table, but we also, I think, do really well off the field of play. So, whether that be in education, classification, there's an awful lot we do. That, I think, has benefited not only Parasport in GB but also on a global basis.
Penny Briscoe:We work collaboratively with colleagues. I've mentored colleagues from around the globe and new chef submissions. So I think you know we take our position really seriously in terms of yes, of course we want to be successful, that's what it's all about. But actually we also want to support the growth of the movement and I think london certainly helped kick the movement forward with a massive kickstart. But you know we've still got a way to go. It's a new movement. Yes, we've made massive, massive strides in the 20 years plus that I've been part of the BPA and part of the movement, but there's more to come. You know we haven't reached the ceiling by any means.
Sue Anstiss:And what's your day-to-day role now as Director of Sport at the British Paralympic Association?
Penny Briscoe:Yeah, I'm part of our exec team, so obviously responsible for the overall strategy delivery. So we launched a new strategy, a 10-year strategy, last year called Championing Change, and that strategy is very much two-pronged. Part of the strategy is being that world-leading team on the field of play, being that world-leading team on the field of play and part of the strategy is actually how we use success on the field of play to champion change off the field of play. So how do we change perceptions, how do we create a better lived experience for disabled people? How do we use our position to influence, to advocate?
Penny Briscoe:And you know it's a hugely exciting strategy and one that the whole organization has embraced, which is is fantastic to see. So there's that kind of level of leadership and direct responsibility. And then, obviously, I lead a small but perfectly formed sport team who are absolutely amazing, work very closely with the director of operations in and around everything to do with best prepared teams and you know I've been responsible for leading the development of our best prepared team strategy over multiple game cycles, including our funding submissions to uk sport, and you know we're hugely grateful as a bpa for the lottery support that we've had via UK Sport as far back, I think, as sort of Sydney 2000. So it's a massive part of enabling us to be that world leading national Paralympic committee and you know long may it continue.
Sue Anstiss:And what is it for you personally that makes Parasport so special, that you've remained in that space for so long? Yeah, so so.
Penny Briscoe:I guess, from sort of fairly shaky beginnings it didn't take long actually having made that decision. Come on, I can make a difference here as soon as I met the athletes and a couple of the first camps I went on. One was with Bochia and it was just eye-opening just to see their talent and the skill that they have. And that was like crikey. I had no idea but just fell in love with it. You know, fell in love with the sport by the thing. You know multi-sport from. You know box here to you know newer sports such as para badminton, para canoe, triathlon. You know the athletic swimming. You know it's an amazing environment to be working with so many different sports summer and winter. So that in itself is hugely exciting as a sport fan.
Penny Briscoe:But also just the athletes there were just so many nice in a very strange word but lovely people. They're absolutely ferocious in their competitive nature and determined to do well. But there was just so many great people the coaches, the PDs, the team leaders. It kind of feels like you know I love a hashtag that you know and I use in it together. It kind of feels like we're in it together and we're there working to support the ambitions of the athlete to support the success of the team but also, I think, the broader success of the UK high performance system. It really has felt like a journey of belonging, and belonging to something that is hugely exciting, that has evolved over successive game cycles and, as I've already said, I think the best is still to come, or more is still to come. So it's fresh.
Penny Briscoe:Every game is different, every team is different, and that's what makes it for me just so exciting.
Penny Briscoe:Can we create those environments where every athlete and staff member can deliver those personal best and, you know, medal winning performances? Can we create those environments you know we get one chance every four years, summer and winter to create environments where team members have a fantastic time and clearly we're there to deliver performance. But we're also very, very conscious about team experience and that for me, is the challenge to get the balance but also to create the opportunities to absolutely smash it on the performance front and to see smiles and just to hear that. You know the laughter and the camaraderie and and, despite the challenges and and, whether it be Rio, whether it be Tokyo, pyeongchang, beijing, there were so many smiles, there was fun, there was laughter and you know, yes, there was so much talent, but I think, being part of teams that have come together in support of the athlete ambitions and had, you know, an amazing time in doing so, you paint such an exciting picture, making me goosebumps just thinking about it and, I guess, that feeling of the Paralympic sport too.
Sue Anstiss:We obviously saw such a huge transformation for Paralympic sport around London 2012, which you've alluded to. So how did that feel being on the other side, almost being inside the sport?
Penny Briscoe:Oh, I mean 2012 was was incredible, and we got a new CEO in in in 2011, tim Hollingsworth, who's now obviously CEO at Sport England and working with our director of Marcon's at the time, jane Jones, and they were just a formidable force to be reckoned with in terms of the ambition that they could see in terms of. We wanted to be successful on the field of play, but we had this twin track ambition, which was to change perceptions and create change off the field of play, and the reality was that the media hadn't really ever really grasped the potential of para-sport. So my first games in 2004, on the Parmpic side, tanny gray thompson probably winning her ninth and tenth gold medals in in athens, probably in front of about 200 people and a similar number of adults in the national stadium, and I was just so sad. I didn't understand why there was this great sport but nobody seemed to care and the British media at that time hadn't embraced para sport. And it took awarding of the home games in 2005 and channel 4 stepping up into that space to really do justice and to shine the spotlight on para athletes for the first time.
Penny Briscoe:And you know, I talk about the athletes stepping out of the shadows of their Olympic counterparts and that media spotlight as well as filled stadia, which was obviously a another part of the shadows of their Olympic counterparts, and that media spotlight, as well as filled stadia, which was obviously a another part of the success of London, just meant that so many people realized just how brilliant power sport is, how incredible the athletes are, and embraced it, and it was such a step forward, and I think that we did.
Penny Briscoe:You know, we were successful on the field of play and we started to make some inroads and, whilst that hasn't necessarily been a linear progression, I think that the ambition that the organisation clearly stated was one that I think has stood us in good stead as a movement, as an organisation, and one that just still needs to continue to be worked on. You know, we can't be complacent in this space and I think Hannah Cockcroft, just in the last few weeks, has talked about reigniting the passion for para-sport and, with a European game so very close over in Paris, we're hoping that, without crowds in Tokyo, there wasn't necessarily the same passion, the same fervour, but I think that the Parisians are going to host an incredible Games and I think there'll be thousands and thousands of travelling fans who, again, I think it will reignite the passion for Palace Sport and then just, I guess, reinforce that platform that allows the athletes to use their voice for change, and positive change for disabled people.
Sue Anstiss:And you talk about that twin ambition there, and I've had a huge privilege on the Game Changers to talk to Paralympians like Tanni Gray-Thompson and Hannah Cockcroft, sarah Story, sarah's story and sometimes they've mentioned that the positioning of para-athletes as almost super humans can sometimes be detrimental to disabled people, because the public then think every disabled person should be able to compete at elite sport. I don't know what your thoughts are on that.
Penny Briscoe:Yeah, I think it's an interesting debate and I think at the time Channel 4, let's not underestimate the incredible work that Channel 4 have done to champion para sport, and that's not just in the UK, that's on a global basis and I think the superhumans were laying down a challenge that you know don't underestimate the potential, the talent, the capability of athletes with a disability and hence the super humans, and especially as para sport hadn't really been seen. So I think they were. It was a positioning, it was a marketing and it was also, I think, respectful of the fact that para athletes are incredible athletes. Let's not forget that, first and foremost, they are incredible athletes. Let's not forget that, first and foremost, they are incredible athletes.
Penny Briscoe:I think you know the sort of, I guess, unintended consequences, that that you know the general public love para sport, but maybe then some misconceptions that well, if they can do that, then every disabled person can, can achieve that on the field of play, and that's not the case in non-disabled sport. So you know, we just need, I think, just to have a little bit of a reality check there. You know it's a continuum, isn't it? Participation. So there are non-disabled and disabled people that do sport to stay as fit and well as they possibly can for their mental health.
Penny Briscoe:For, you know, grassroots participation, and there are others who aspire to be the very best of the very best, and not everyone will be an olympian who is even an elite athlete, and the same goes for for paralympic sport. So, yeah, I, I think you know there's there's still work to do in in the space of in, you know, in terms of education and messaging, and you know, but I do think you know, we we've made huge strides, especially in terms of london, you know, treated a whole nation to, to para sport. Every kid in the country did a project on olympic and paralympic athletes. We now have generations that have grown up with power sport being in the spotlight and I do think that you know there's a lot that that that has been done in and around messaging and education and developing understanding, but it's an it's an ongoing process, isn't it?
Sue Anstiss:absolutely. And what's that? What is the next big shift that you'd like to see in terms of paris, but we talked about that, the shift that came with london 2012. But is there something else that will, you know, move us forward in a more momentous way is Is it revolution or is it evolution?
Penny Briscoe:I mean, I think you know where we are now as a para-sport movement. The IPC are as young as we are as the BPA, so you know we're still very young in the movement's history and I think the IPC is working really hard to extend the global reach of para-sport, which is important, so creating more global diversity. I think it's working really hard. Just as you know, nations are, in terms of using the athlete voice to create social change, which has become a, you know, a hugely significant part of their work. I think global standards will continue to to improve as more nations get involved, as more nations see the value and the importance and the significance of para sport.
Penny Briscoe:I think you know there's still work to do in and around the classification system, as one example of sort of technical areas within the movement that that need to to improve. So, yeah, I mean I think there's lots of headroom and, um, certainly, from our perspective as a, as the paralyalympics GB, you know every cycle we're looking to be better and you know we are at this sort of the upper end of sophistication. But let's not forget, you know the UK high performance system is world leading and we've still got lots and lots of areas where we can improve in terms of athlete preparation, coach preparation, and you know, you name, name it. We're pushing, we're still pushing at a very open door, I think, in terms of enhancements and improvements that can be made in and around the team.
Sue Anstiss:And your chef de mission for Paralympics GB. Can you tell us a bit about what that role entails?
Penny Briscoe:So chef de mission I is it's clearly a french term and obviously means chief of the mission and I do still get asked what I like to cook, and I can tell you that, whilst I do like cooking, the thought of cooking for 550 teammates is not, I think, where my skill set lies. So, yeah, I mean it's in in really basic terms. It's team leader, isn't it? It's leader of the team, so I take responsibility for the team at the games. We have a president and secretary general that takes responsibility for sort of all of the things outside of the team in terms of all of our guests and sponsors, and, and so we sort of divide responsibilities between between the sort of athletes and staff team and then the wider um games delivery footprint, which is huge for us as a Paralympics GB. So, working with my chef demission team, we look to create the best possible environment from which to deliver performance. We look at ways that we can ensure a positive team experience. We look at ways that we can ensure a positive team experience. We look at ways as to how each and every team member can thrive, so if we can thrive in that high-pressured environment that comes around once every four years for some athletes, some staff. It only comes around once. You know how do we create an environment where everyone can deliver those personal bests and when I talk about personal bests, I mean me as a staff member and you know the whole 250 other staff members as well.
Penny Briscoe:If we're delivering at our best, then the chances are we're supporting the athletes to do exactly the same. So we talk about whole team when we talk about positive team experience. We talk about whole team when we talk about thriving and we talk about whole team when we talk about having a positive experience. And you know it's incumbent on me as Jeff, to ensure we uphold the highest standards of excellence in all of our planning, that we work collaboratively with the national governing bodies. So it really is in it together that we understand the environment that we're going into, because that, ultimately, is the role of the national paralympic committee and that we work with, with the team leaders to understand our team. You know, as I've already said, no two paralympic gb teams is the same. No games environment is exactly the same. So it's it's trying to keep on the front foot so that we are able to maximize the opportunity that each games affords us as a Paralympics GB.
Sue Anstiss:And for the last few Games. I mean you alluded to that earlier, but you faced this enormous additional challenges. So in Rio, paralympics almost didn't take place when the city went bankrupt. You then had extreme heat and humidity to contend with in Tokyo and all the challenges around COVID in Beijing. So how do you personally cope with the tremendous pressure that comes in that position?
Penny Briscoe:I just love the game. I can't think of a better environment to be in and I think if you've got that mindset, that is just it's a great starting point. I just reflect often on Vancouver 2010 and it was pre-athletes arriving in village and I just noticed myself that sort of I guess proprioception that I was kind of walking with a bounce in my stride, which I'm not sure is my normal, my, I don't think I normally have that swagger. But you know, when I get into environment, I just I sort of like shoulders back, chin up, big smile. This is it, this is this is the opportunity and embrace that opportunity. And you know, we all have mechanisms to cope when we're, when we're under pressure. Mine is I like to exercise. I think I'm also really fortunate in terms I've worked with some incredible team. My current chef de mission team is hugely experienced some incredible teams. My current chef de mission team is hugely experienced. We've got a senior leadership team that is passionate, dedicated, hardworking. We've got great experience of issue and incident management through Sochi, rio, pyeongchang, tokyo, beijing. You know we've had a run of really challenging games, but I think we've grown as individuals and and we've grown as a team in terms of how we've managed those environments and Rio, as you said.
Penny Briscoe:You know, I ended up going into Rio early, not knowing with Barry Canela, our director of operations, not really knowing what we were going to find. And it was challenging and you know, you set yourself simple tasks and being handed the building over from Team GB and the cleaners had been suspended because there was widespread theft, and it was like OK, the first thing is let's make this building shine. So we started with a chef team apartment and then, as people came in, we just we sort of expanded that ambition and you know, get the science and medicine areas up and running, let's bring in some new cleaners, let's get the apartment sorted. And when the athletes arrived, I had a lot of athletes contacting me and saying you know, penny, is it going to be OK? And it's going to be OK, guys, it's going to be OK, just get yourselves over here. And they arrived and it was like, oh what? What's the issue? This looks amazing.
Penny Briscoe:And obviously you know there were challenges throughout the games, but we took control of what we could control and we created that home from home, that environment where, where the athletes came in, looks amazing. Let's crack on business as usual in terms of them delivering those performances. But and then they were hearing stories from other nations that were having a terrible time and you know, certainly from my perspective, you know, I think we endeared ourselves to the organizing committee and that we tried to support them. We weren't going to the press bad now, then we just tried to do what we could do because ultimately, it's about creating that environment for the athletes who've been working so hard and the last thing they want to hear from us is us moaning. They want us to hear positivity and it's going to be okay and and it was okay and it was an incredible games and you know, similarly, going into Tokyo, games that might not have happened because of Covid and it was the most challenging environment that I've been involved in and you know it's a massive thanks to colleagues at Team GB as well in terms of how collaborative they were in terms of sharing experiences. So we had some insights of what we might be facing.
Penny Briscoe:But again, it kind of felt like we talked earlier on about what's special about the, the para sport movements, and athletes arrived and again, didn't bemoan the situation.
Penny Briscoe:They were just grateful that they had an opportunity to compete and they'd worked so hard under, you know, really challenging prep conditions at home and very little competition.
Penny Briscoe:And you know we had stories of Ryan's shooting shed, of one of the shooters setting up a shooting area through his house into a shed in his garden.
Penny Briscoe:You know we had stories of Ryan's shooting shed, of one of the shooters setting up a shooting area through his house into a shed in his garden. You know there was all sorts of incredible stuff going on, but seeing the athletes' smiling faces getting off the bus coming into the village brought a tear to my eye and it really was. It kind of felt like a siege mentality at times but we came together as the most cohesive team and I think one of my concerns going into Tokyo is that we wouldn't get kind of positive reflections on the games or the team experience and it was actually quite the contrary in terms of multi-games athletes saying it was actually my best games, the best experience and and I think it was that siege mentality of us being in it together and brought us together as as a team and the camaraderie and the support. It was just unbelievable and I think it's testimony to the mindset of our athletes and and their support teams and and and the Paralympics GB support team as well.
Sue Anstiss:And how did the delay to Tokyo and then having just three years between the games impact your role? I feel you've been very hard to get hold of, so I know you're really busy, but has it made a massive difference having 25% less time almost to prep for Paris?
Penny Briscoe:Yeah, I mean Tokyo, as I say, was brutal because we just planned and replanned and planned and replanned and ripped up plans and you know everything was happening really last minute and it meant that you know we were trying to focus as well on Beijing, which we knew was going to be just six months after, and and where we ended up was splitting the chef de mission role between summer and winter games. So I was focusing on on Tokyo well, we're all focusing on Tokyo, to be honest but we'd appointed Phil Smith as first time chef de mission for Beijing. So when we got home from Tokyo, I led all the post Tokyo debriefs whilst Phil and his team just went full steam ahead with that six month window and again facing the same challenges that we had in in Tokyo was late information, planning, repl, replanning, COVID challenges, COVID, countermeasures. That I think the approach paid off. Phil and his team did an incredible job in Beijing and in that sort of six months I was focusing more on Paris and getting the sort of the plan that was there it had been there, you know, 18 months sort of resurrecting that plan and trying to fast track it. So you just feel at times we've been playing catch up going into Paris.
Penny Briscoe:But you know, again, I think we're confident. You know we're confident that we've dealt with such challenging games that it might not be our optimal delivery timeframe, but actually we know, we kind of know what we're doing and what to expect. We're all looking forward to a non-COVID Games, keeping everything crossed. We're looking forward to a Games that's just across the water we're looking forward to. I think it will be a spectacular Games.
Penny Briscoe:You know, I think the Paris Organising Committee will do an amazing, amazing job and I think just again, yeah, just being positive that it's our next opportunity to showcase brilliant para sport to global audiences. And, yeah, we're all working hard. It's probably one of our most complex master plans because we've got so many sports that are actually preparing in the UK. We've got a handful of sports that are preparing in and around Paris. We've got lots of different accommodations in and around Paris, We've got a huge guest and commercial program and friends and family. So it's going to be really, really exciting and you know, we're just under now 500 days to go and it really does feel like it's hotting up Lots and lots of qualification events coming up for the sport. So, yeah, it sort of feels like it's getting to the pointy end of the cycle and that we missed quite a bit of the front end of the cycle, but we're getting there.
Sue Anstiss:Super exciting. You've obviously had such a long career at the same organisation, but it's an organisation that's changed significantly over time too. I was going to ask you if you've considered other roles, but when I hear your passion and enthusiasm I can kind of see why not. But have you thought about other sports, other roles, in your time there?
Penny Briscoe:Yeah, I had a bit of a sticky patch just in terms of how I was feeling about my role, sort of Beijing time, but the sort of the lure of London London really, I guess kept me going and and then, with Tim Hollingsworth coming in in 2011, we just created a sort of relationship CEO, director of sport, chef, submission relationship. That was incredible, you know, really complementary skill set. I was disappointed not to get the chef gig going into our home games in 12. But sort of Tim explained to me that it was really important that I work closely with him to get the new strategy online. And you know, craig Hunter came in as chef de mission and I had a bit of a wobble at that point. And again, it was another one of those moments where I sort of sat down and had a stern talking to myself. If I walked away at that stage, what would it say about me and my values? What would it say about me and everything that I'd committed to para-sport over that first decade and that you know, I was as passionate to support the athletes going into London as I ever was and I just had to put my personal ambition sort of slightly on the side burner and hope that I would get an opportunity based on continued good performance, and I did. And it's relationships like the one that I had with Tim that really helped reignite your passion.
Penny Briscoe:Sometimes and, as I said, every game is different, every team is different London was a catalyst to being in some ways feeling like I was in a different movement post london than that than I had been, and it just felt it was, you know, an opportunity to stay and just to see where we would, we would go in. It was just so good to see the athletes being recognized. It was so good you strictly come down the thing to question of sport, to the bake-off, you name it. Parathletes were there. You know, pre-london probably Tanny Gray and Addy were the two athletes that sort of the general public knew about. But every community now has embraced parasport, has their own parasport heroes and you know it's quite right that we're seeing the guys get the recognition that they deserve. So yeah, I'd say, if a game's too hard, then my career at the BPA has been the sort of the pre-London and then the post-London, and us as an organisation we're far more ambitious, having had the opportunity of the home games to really sort of strike out in terms of our strategy and not just the sort of championing change in terms of the sort of strike out in terms of our strategy and not just the sort of championing change in terms of the sort of the advocacy.
Penny Briscoe:We've got a para-sport platform which is now rebranded as Everybody Moves. It's a community platform designed to engage, get connections, provide opportunities, and you know, we know, that disabled people were disproportionately impacted by COVID. We know the similar disproportionality, we know that disabled people were disproportionately impacted by COVID. We know the similar disproportionality of the cost of living crisis. And I think we're, you know we're ambitious to play a role in terms of creating opportunity, creating a difference, championing change, just kind of what it says on the tin, really. So it's an exciting time and I think if you get up in the morning and you feel passionate and you can smile about the day, you've got ahead, why would you seek something else if you don't believe it? It would be better.
Sue Anstiss:Brilliant, brilliant. And lastly, I was really excited to learn that your daughter, lizzie, is a potential world-class athlete too. So can you tell me about her, her ambitions, and I guess, what it feels like on the other side of being a parent of an athlete at that level too?
Penny Briscoe:I empathize and sympathize with every sporting parent, especially with very determined um young athletes. It's a one wonder to get myself into hot water. Lizzie hates me talking about her and sport. So Lizzie is part of the British Triathlon Programme. Just like her mum, she's an out-and-out sports nut. Her brother was equally a sporty but is moving on to other university endeavours.
Penny Briscoe:But Lizzie's been, I think, really fortunate in terms of. She's a talented athlete. She played for Derby Football Academy, girls Academy, great runner, before finding triathlon, which was through school, a very, very committed teacher who is now a family friend. So thank you, helen Dusick, thank you For Life Tri Club and here in Not in knots, great support, a great volunteer base and then moving through to sort of you know, the the regional academy onto the england next generation squads, getting selected for gbu gb junior and last year getting her first international medals as an individual and also a mixed team relay bronze in the European Championship. So you know it is thanks to the British Triathlon Pathway, which does support young athletes really well, and she's at Leeds University now, which is obviously one of the key centres for British fly. She's got a new coach in NOM Stanford which she's hugely excited by and I think she's just a really pragmatic young athlete in terms of she wants to continue to get better in each of the disciplines. She knows how important that is.
Penny Briscoe:She's a really honest, hard-working athlete and I think she just wants to be able to represent Great Britain at every level. And she's got a challenging year, first year uni. She's in stepped up into the under 23 age category, so hopefully it's just a year of consolidation and um and then looking at to where that might go in terms of future gb selection. So I just wanted to be happy and healthy and and to love a sport and um. You know I've I I love sport. You know I've loved sport all my life and know I know the opportunities that it can give you, not just in terms of being an elite athlete, but the life skills that being in the sporting environment I guess enables you with. So yeah, we'll see.
Sue Anstiss:I really enjoyed talking to Penny. If you'd like to hear more from other senior women leading bushish sport, head over to fearlesswomencouk, where you'll find other episodes where I speak to the likes of Sally Mundy, liz Nicol, katherine Granger, sue Day and Claire Connor, as well as listening to all the podcasts. On the website, you can also find out more about the Women's Sport Collective, a free, inclusive community for all women working in sport. You can sign up for the Fearless Women newsletter, which highlights the developments in global women's sport, and there's more about my book game on the unstoppable rise of women's sport.
Sue Anstiss:Thank you again to sport england for backing the game changes through a national lottery award, and to sam walker at what goes on media, who does such a great job as our executive producer. Thank you also to my colleague at fearless women, kate hannon. The game changes is free to listen to and you can find it on all podcast platforms. Do follow us or subscribe to make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, and if you have a moment to leave a review or a rating, it'd be much appreciated, as it really helps us to reach new audiences. Do come and say hello on social media, where you'll find me on instagram, linkedin and twitter at sue anstis. The game changes fearless women in sport.
