The Game Changers
In this award-winning podcast Sue Anstiss talks to trailblazers in women sport. These are the individuals who are knocking down barriers and challenging the status quo for women and girls everywhere. Along with openly sharing their historic careers, what drives them and how they’ve dealt with tough challenges, each episode explores key issues for equality in sport and beyond.
We’re incredibly grateful to Sport England who support The Game Changers through a National Lottery award.
You can find out about all the guests at https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Fearless Women in Sport
The Game Changers
Sophie Carrigill: Challenging perceptions for all women with disabilities
As we look forward to the Paralympics at Paris 2024, we're sharing this previous episode with Paralympian Sophie Carrigill, which was first released on July 26, 2022.
Sophie Carrigill is a British wheelchair basketball player who represented and co-captained Great Britain at the World and European Championships and at the Paralympic games.
She’s won world and European silver medals and reached the Paralympic semi-finals in a first for Great Britain.
Sophie’s just returned from playing wheelchair basketball professionally in Italy and continues to explore her passions beyond the court as she advocates for disabled women in sport and beyond.
Sophie talks candidly about the accident that caused her disability and the part sport has played in helping her to build her independence and strength. We explore the powerful inspiration of watching parasport at London 2012 and how she’s since had to overcome many setbacks in her sporting journey. She talks about playing professionally on a mixed team in Italy and her hopes for the future including a Paralympic medal at Paris 2024.
We also discuss how using social media has helped her to find her voice and advocate for others, as well as attracting more commercial partnerships and new opportunities.
Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.
Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media
A Fearless Women production
Hello and welcome to the Game Changers, the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazing women in sport. I'm Sue Anstiss and I'd like to start with a huge thank you to our partners, sport England, who support the Game Changers through the National national lottery. My guest today is Sophie Carragill, a British wheelchair basketball player who represented and co-captained Great Britain at World and European Championships and in the Paralympic Games. She's won World and European silver medals and reached the Paralympic semi-finals in a first for Great Britain. Sophie's just returned from playing wheelchair basketball professionally in Italy and continues to explore her passions beyond the court as she advocates for disabled women in sport and beyond. Sophie, I'd like to start, if I can, with a moment that changed your life. It was 2010,. You were just 16 years old, travelling in the US. What happened?
Sophie Carrigill:Yeah, the moment that changed everything, I suppose. I was involved in a car accident. I was out in America, as you say, and got family that live over there, and I was only three days into my holiday, which I've just been looking forward to for the whole year leading up to it, just finished my GCSEs and so excited to go away, and three days in I'd already managed to get myself sunburned and I had this horrific car accident. It was, you know, a real life-changing moment, as you say, life-threatening moment actually as well. So I'm, you know, very lucky to be here.
Sophie Carrigill:The guy driving lost control and the car went straight into a tree here.
Sophie Carrigill:The guy driving lost control and the car went straight into a tree and ultimately resulted in me breaking my back and my spinal cord and also lots of, lots of, lots of other lovely things that happened. That were you know, I can laugh about it now because I'm still alive but, you know, were life-threatening injuries and I just had the most amazing, amazing care over in America. The surgeons there and the doctors there absolutely saved my life and the body itself is just the most amazing, amazing care over in America. The surgeons there and the doctors there absolutely saved my life and the body itself is just the most amazing thing that can survive absolute massive trauma like I went through and still function, you know, relatively normally, apart from, obviously, the fact that now I have a disability, I'm paralyzed from the waist down and I'm a full-time wheelchair user. So that's the thing that you know stays with me. And how paralysed from the waist down and I'm a full-time wheelchair user, so that's the thing that you know stays with me.
Sue Anstiss:And how long were you in the hospital for in the US?
Sophie Carrigill:So I was there for two months.
Sophie Carrigill:I had one month in critical care where I was in an induced coma for a really long time, and then one month of sort of rehab trying to get myself, you know, using a chair, adapting to all of the new things that I was having to learn of rehab, trying to get myself, you know, using a chair, adapting to all of the new things that I was having to learn, just trying to get dressed like not being able to move your legs. You know things like that, learning those. I wasn't able to fly home actually because one of my injuries was I'd punctured my lungs, so I wasn't because of the air pressure of the flight and things like that. That's why I was in America for so long. I think my insurance company wanted me to get back as quickly as possible. Then I was in hospital in the UK for about two and a half months, but very, you know, rehab based lots of, you know, adjusting to life really. So in total, four and a half months and I got discharged just before Christmas, which was lovely.
Sue Anstiss:And your mum and dad, as you mentioned, weren't in America with you at the time, and, as a mother, I can only imagine how tough that must have been for them too. Now you're older, have you talked to them much about their memories of the time?
Sophie Carrigill:Oh yeah, we do talk about it quite a lot, which I think has really helped process everything. For all of us. It something that we speak about and very openly, and I think that's really healthy actually to be able to do that. And it was funny actually. My parents are now separated but at the time they they weren't and but I knew, you know, they weren't going to be together for long and I was actually so sad to think, but in the hospital bed, thinking this might be the thing that brings them back together and really using that time for me as a, you know, I put on a really brave face and I guess I can only imagine how hard that is as a mom, as a dad, that your little baby is, you know, in pieces really and adapting to a new way of life. You know, obviously there were the days and the moments where it was heartbreaking and we all just cried like for the whole day, but on the days that it wasn't like that, you know, I tried to be my best self and show them that I was going to be okay.
Sophie Carrigill:It's such a difficult thing to witness someone going through. I think if you're the person going through it, you're sort of overcoming it. You're overcoming the challenges daily. Think, if you're the person going through it, you're sort of overcoming it. You're overcoming the challenges daily, but if you're witnessing that, it's completely different. But we're very open in how we talk through things and honestly, I yeah would not be where I am now without their support. They were incredible.
Sue Anstiss:Where else did you find a strong support within the community?
Sophie Carrigill:I was a really, really active child and I just every after-school club, every sport, everything possible that I could do, I would do that was playing out with my friends on the street, going, you know, playing all different sports, and so that you know, that change of mindset of figuring out how are we still going to be able to do those things, but just differently.
Sophie Carrigill:And I actually I went on a course with the Backup Trust, who are a charity that help people with spinal cord injuries come back to, you know, rebuild their confidence and immerse themselves back into their life. They really helped me to sort of see life in a in a way that was, you know, being able to still do things. So, you know, I went with them to the Lake District on a course we did abseiling, horse riding, canoeing, you know, getting up mountains, things like that, and it just really opened my eyes to everything that was possible and that was a massive change for me. I remember going back home and my parents saying, wow, like it feels like we've got Sophie back, like that competitiveness that I had, that energy that I, you know, always had when sport was involved or anything competitive I was. I'm always wanting to be the best. So I've sort of reignited that within myself, I think. And yeah, so that was an incredible sort of moment for me to ultimately that led me into starting sport.
Sue Anstiss:But how did you cope mentally with what happened to you then?
Sophie Carrigill:It was a really sort of reflecting back on it, a really difficult and weird time because I wanted my life to be as normal as possible. I wanted to still go back to school and do everything you know in inverted commas normally, but the thing was internally that I was having to accept a new identity as a woman. You know, as a 16 year old I was going through such change anyway, as you do at that age, and then this massive change happened to me. I didn't even know anybody with a disability. I'd never seen anybody with a disability. I'd not watched any Paralympic sport I think maybe I'd seen some, but never like consciously and those role models that I felt.
Sophie Carrigill:You know now I feel it's so, so important for women, especially with disabilities, but back then I just wasn't seeing anything like that. So for me it was trying to accept myself as I look different. I did things differently and that self-consciousness I think was so apparent when I was 16, 17, 18, you know, learning to adapt in that way and feeling almost like uncomfortable. Obviously, as you grow and you learn to accept yourself, no matter what it is, I'm so, so proud of who I am. But that was the struggle at the start was learning to accept my new self, suppose, and, and yeah, my new identity and was there a moment in time that you can remember?
Sue Anstiss:you talk about going off to the Lake District, but was there any sort of seminal moments where you think you became more comfortable with who you then were? I mean, you know how tough it is just being a teenager, girl as it is in terms of you know, outward impressions and how you feel about yourself.
Sophie Carrigill:I think for me it was actually when I started playing sport. So about a year after my accident, I found wheelchair basketball. There was a local club and it was 10 minutes from my house and it was perfect and I'd never played basketball before. So it's something completely new and, honestly, I was terrible at the time. So it was really, really humbling experience and actually immersing myself with because, like I said, I didn't know anybody really with a disability, so learning about all the different types of disabilities, meeting new people who really no one was talking about that or what happened to them, everyone was just enjoying sport and loving playing and everyone was so much better than me. It was such an inspiration for me to be like I need to get stronger, I need to get better because I want to be able to play. Like you know, on the big court at the time I was like shooting into the tiny little baby baskets, you know. So, yeah, I think that was the moment for me where I was able to then carry on doing all the things that I loved, just being able to do what I wanted to do. That level of independence, I think, was really important for me to build that strength, to be able to be independent, you know, to go and play sport, and I think that for me was a real turning point.
Sophie Carrigill:And why wheelchair basketball? Yeah, I think I was really lucky that I had a club down the road and it was never in my head that I would play this sport to eventually go on to compete at a Paralympics. That was never the thought. It was always I'll just do something because I want to get back to my normal life, which was consumed by playing sports. So really for me it was this was the first one that I was going to try, and then maybe I'd try other ones, maybe I'd try different things. Just being active, I think for me is really important and always has been, so I've sort of stumbled across it to be honest, and reading about you, it does seem you had this meteoric rise in the sport.
Sue Anstiss:So what made you?
Sophie Carrigill:good in terms of basketball. Oh, I think, being very determined. You know, some people might say that it's been stubborn, but that's just my personality is. I'm strong-willed, I think, and I think also I was lucky enough to go to the London Paralympics to watch some of the women's games and I really was that cliche that was inspired, like I was that inspire a generation. You know that totally that, totally that ticked the box. That worked for me. The marketing went well, it worked, because that was it. I watched the wheelchair basketball girls play their quarterfinal against Germany in front of this electrifying crowd. Like, honestly, it was, oh, just goosebumps. Even thinking about it, just that that raw emotion and from all the players about it, just that that raw emotion and from all the players, just you know, it just felt like that moment was something I was thinking to myself. This is what I want to do from this point. I will make every decision possible to make sure that I get to Rio, I get to the 2016 Paralympics, and so that's what I did.
Sophie Carrigill:I think I was just determined in that way that I knew what I wanted. I knew I wanted to achieve and I just gave it everything. So, you know, moved location. I chose my university based on where the basketball program was. I studied sports psychology, which I felt was going to give me more of an edge in terms of learning about the mind, learning about how people work in sport. You know, I did not have the student life that anyone would expect, because you know I'm talking to probably lots of athletes here. You all know it, you make lots of different choices to your friends who don't play sport or aren't athletes. So, yeah, you know, those conscious decisions, I think, meant that I made my way onto the team and and yeah, ultimately I've not left yet still there.
Sue Anstiss:Can you explain to us a little bit about how the classification works in wheelchair basketball and what's your classification and what that means?
Sophie Carrigill:Yeah. So some people think it can be complicated, but it's pretty simple. You're given a number and in basketball you then play a certain amount of numbers. So 14 international tournaments, 14 points, and so each disability is categorized into certain points. So I'm a one point player, which means I'm the most disabled that you can be really. So you can't be a 0.5 or you can't be a zero. So because I'm paralyzed from the waist down, I've got really limited core movement. I obviously don't use my legs at all. Then it goes all the way up to 4.5, which might be someone who has, you know, a knee injury, acl injuries, things like that, that mean they can't play the running game but they, you know, have a significant injury. That means that mean they can't play the running game but they have a significant injury. That means that they would classify for wheelchair basketball and also people who maybe are amputees would be a four-point player, for example. So then it ranges in 0.5 increments.
Sophie Carrigill:With Paralympic sport. It's one of the difficult things and the controversial issues that is always how can you classify people with disabilities, because everyone is so different and everyone presents in different ways, even if you have the same disability. So it's a structure in place that allows fairness I think as much as possible then it means that it's all types of disability that play, which is what is great about wheelchair basketball. It's such an inclusive sport because even in the leagues in the UK if you're able-bodied you would be classed as a five-point player so you can still play. So you can play able-bodied players with disabled players and mix it up like that, which obviously you can't at Paralympics or tournaments like that. But I think, especially at a grassroots level, when kids are growing up with disabilities and they want to, you know, play with their friends, it's a perfect, perfect sport to be able to do that with and that's fascinating from a grassroots inclusive perspective and to have enough players to have a team and play.
Sue Anstiss:So does that happen a lot at grassroots in terms of that real mixture of abilities?
Sophie Carrigill:Yes, absolutely yeah, it does happen a lot and I love it. I absolutely think it's great because, you know, for me I'd love to see disability sport in the national curriculum. I would love to see people just playing it as a sport. For me it's the wheelchair is just an extension of our bodies. It's a piece of equipment, like you'd play golf with golf clubs, you know, you just have a piece of equipment. So, yeah, the more people that play, the better for me. And, like you said, to get a group of people together, you might have to include some able-bodied people and for me that's great and it's a great way to showcase the sport.
Sophie Carrigill:There's lots of other variations of the sport as well being developed. So there's IZB, which is, I think, international Zone Basketball, which they play at schools a lot, which is great. So they have different zones for people who run and then different zones for the wheelchair users as well. So just making the sport as accessible as possible to as many people is. You know, obviously I'm passionate about wheelchair basketball because I love it, but you know, for me it's an incredible sport.
Sue Anstiss:You were made England co captain after playing for just two years. Does it feel different to play on a team when you are captain?
Sophie Carrigill:Yeah, definitely, it was obviously an incredible honour. Yeah, I was only 20 and I wasn't even sure I was going to get selected for the team, never mind be asked to be captain at the time. Yeah, it's definitely different and I think having you know, studying sports psychology alongside whilst I was playing, I think, really helped me to understand people. And don't get me wrong, I'm still trying to do that, like humans are incredibly complex, but I think at such a young age, having that level of leadership and almost responsibility really set me in a good stead, I I suppose for the rest of my life. It was an incredible opportunity for me to learn a lot about myself and learn a lot about others and how to get the best out of a team.
Sue Anstiss:And you've been to two Paralympics now in Rio and Tokyo, and played in European and World Championships. So what's been the highlight of your playing career so far?
Sophie Carrigill:Oh, it's such a difficult question because there's so many and I could just talk forever about my career, I suppose, um, but I would say definitely being selected for the Rio Paralympics was an absolute dream. Competing there was a lifetime goal, something that I'd dreamt of. As such a young girl like, as I mentioned, loving sport, growing up, I used to watch the Olympics and with my dad all the time and just think to myself what could I do that would get me there? What sport could I possibly do that would get me there? And I played a lot of netball obviously not an Olympic sport so I was like, oh, maybe I could be a high jumper or a sprinter, you know. So we'd always have these conversations and obviously the massive silver lining of my accident happening was then I was, you know.
Sophie Carrigill:This opportunity arose to be able to play at Paralympics. We came away from the tournament, we came fourth, which at the time was the best that the team had ever ever done. They'd never made it to a semi-final before at Paralympics and I feel like that moment really ignited us as a team because it was totally bittersweet. You know, you were the one team going away without a medal that made it to the semi-finals, but also, reflecting back, it was a real success. So that gave us, I think, that desire and that hunger to keep building and those next few years after that although they were we you know we we moved location. We moved from Worcester up to Sheffield. So, although it came with challenges in doing that, it came with so much opportunity that ultimately led us to our best ever success at the world championships in 2018, where we made it to the final and came home with a silver medal. So, yeah, those two are my like top top highlights. So, yeah, lots to be proud of.
Sue Anstiss:And can we expect to see you in Paris in 2024? All going well.
Sophie Carrigill:Yes, all being well, fingers crossed. That is still the goal. I'm still, you know, ultimately hoping and working towards winning a Paralympic medal, and that is the absolute dream for me. I think it's obviously an incredible achievement even just to be selected and to represent your country at Paralympic Games, but there's just that one thing missing for me, and that's a Paralympic medal. So, yes, I am working hard to make sure that I'm in contention to to compete in Paris.
Sue Anstiss:And what are your thoughts on the prospects for the GB team there?
Sophie Carrigill:I think we have honestly so much potential in this group. We had a rough time, as I think a lot of people did, through Covid and trying to balance sort of all the restrictions as well as training. We're a team sport that need to train together and ultimately that was not what was allowed at the time. So it was really difficult going into Tokyo with, you know, having everything sort of up in the air and, you know, not having had the prep that we would have wanted to. We weren't ourselves in Tokyo. I don't think that's a fair reflection of who we are as a team.
Sophie Carrigill:Ultimately, we came back only a couple of months after that actually, and won a silver medal at the European Championships, but still COVID was looming. It was, you know, impacted the tournament. So it's a really exciting time for us to sort of we've got a really hectic summer planned with lots of you know, camps and training together. We'll have a new coach coming in, so it's really exciting and I just think we've got so much potential as a group. It's just about getting those games consistently back to back to when it matters at a Paralympic level, when the whole world's watching is being able to perform in those moments. So, yeah, I just have such high hopes for us as a group.
Sue Anstiss:And fantastic, I guess, to be in Paris, somewhere close to by, for family and friends to come and support as well.
Sophie Carrigill:Yeah, absolutely Obviously in Tokyo. I don't know how many people would have been able to come out and support anyway, but obviously nobody could because of you know the restrictions which it changed the game, you know, really for us, so having it in Paris will be amazing, you know. You can just hop on a train. You could even do a little day trip. So you know it'll be great for family and friends to come and watch.
Sue Anstiss:And it's not all been plain sailing for you in terms of health over the last 12 years that you've played. So what other challenges have you had to overcome?
Sophie Carrigill:Yeah, lots of of things. I feel like I've been given my fair share of bad luck. As I was preparing for the Rio Paralympics, obviously, as we talked about every, every choice, every opportunity that I had, it was all about basketball, it was all about making it to the Rio Paralympics and just at the start of the year, something really freaky sort of you know you don't expect anything like this to happen I ruptured my bowel, which, as a young, healthy female, you don't expect that to be something that's going to happen. But due to a lot of surgeries I've had in the past from my accident, it was all scar tissue related and it's life threatening. You know, I didn't realize it at the time but having, you know, researched it afterwards, it was.
Sophie Carrigill:It was awful to go through and ultimately I had open abdominal surgery to repair that which, in the January of a Paralympic year, is pretty heartbreaking to think that. You know the recovery time and the rehabilitation time that I was going to need. I thought there's no chance I'm getting to the games and I remember saying to my mum at the time she was there when I was wheeled off into the theatre I was like crying my eyes out like I'm just not going to make it. It was my everything. It meant the world to me to to be able to compete at Paralympics, and I thought it was going to make it. It was my everything. It meant the world to me to be able to compete at Paralympics, and I thought it was going to set me back massively.
Sophie Carrigill:But, as I've mentioned before, I've got some sort of sense of resilience and determination within me that meant that that was never in doubt. I did what I was told. I did my rehab religiously. Sometimes I was only able to go on like a hand bike for 10 minutes at a time and I would just do that really religiously to make sure that I'd sort of ticked all the boxes.
Sophie Carrigill:I'd recovered as well as I could do, wasn't allowed to put my arms above my head for like six to eight weeks because of, obviously, the the um, the scar that I'd had, and so, yeah, it was a difficult time, but one that really humbled me. I think that nothing is certain even if you work so hard for something, you never know if it's actually going to work out. So for me it was really a humbling experience, and sat on the sidelines watching the girls prepare for the games was uh, yeah, it was. It was difficult, but ultimately I did manage to get there and and I had the competition of my life. Actually, I really pulled out some of the best basketball I've ever played. So, you know, put me in a position where I'm challenged, I've seemed like I come out the other side like a you know a new person.
Sue Anstiss:But be nice and maybe not to have so many challenges too oh yeah, absolutely there have been some great developments domestically in the UK this year. But be nice and maybe not to have so many challenges too. Oh yeah, absolutely there have been some great developments domestically in the UK this year with the Women's Super League. No-transcript.
Sophie Carrigill:Yeah, it's been an incredible, I think, year for women's sport women's wheelchair basketball sport. So, you know, we changed things up a little bit. As a GB squad. We're no longer centralised, which allowed then for this league to be developed, which, for women playing the sport, is what should be the case. You know, women should be playing with women.
Sophie Carrigill:What was happening before that is, yes, we did have a women's league, but not in the same sense, and a lot of women were playing in the men's league and, you know, playing mixed teams. So for me, it's obviously the right step forward. It's an incredible opportunity and for women to develop and to play. So there's four teams, there's four bases and hopefully that just continues to grow as more women get involved with playing the sport. It's been a joy to watch. Actually, I've not been playing in the league because I've been out playing in Italy. I think there's just really amazing things and amazing prospects for the league. Obviously, it's celebrating women, which is so important, and showcasing Gower sport at a high level. So if anyone's not watched it, then keep your eyes peeled for when next season starts, because it's a great sport to watch yeah, and fantastic, there's been some coverage across bbc as well too.
Sophie Carrigill:So great that it's really getting out there yeah, absolutely, and I think that's what you need as a sport, isn't it that? Visibility, especially as a disabled sport, because, like I mentioned, when I had my accident, you know I couldn't find things to be inspired by or watch, and when something is so prominent, it's on the BBC, you can see it online. That really helps the community and you know people who are who are looking for role models and looking for people to look up to.
Sue Anstiss:You mentioned that you've been playing in Italy this year, so how did that come about?
Sophie Carrigill:Yeah, so at this really exciting opportunity. The wheelchair basketball in Europe is, I would say, a way ahead of where we're at in the UK. There are lots of established leagues in Europe. I am playing in a men's team, so my training is a lot. It's just been a different experience, you know, really challenging, and it just came. You know, people sort of, I suppose, approach you if you're interested in wanting to play abroad, play for a different club, and you know the club just reached out to me and asked if I'd be interested and it goes from there really. You talk contracts and negotiations and stuff like that, and it goes from there really. You talk contracts and negotiations and stuff like that.
Sophie Carrigill:And it's been my first year playing professionally abroad. It was an amazing experience getting to live in Italy as well as playing professionally, playing with a men's team. That was, you know, really really challenging for lots of different reasons, but physically, you know, the most challenging being competitive with the men. And we were so successful we won everything in the year that we could have won the Super Cup, the Italian Cup, and then we won the league as well just recently. So it was an incredible experience and, yeah, I don't know if I'll be going back or, you know, if I'll have the opportunity to play abroad again. So I really felt like I tried to make the most of the experience.
Sue Anstiss:And do you feel fully included as a woman in a men's team? How does that work?
Sophie Carrigill:It's a real challenge. I just was constantly fighting for the respect. I think the respect, I think internal sexism is still rife, you know, and not because anyone is a bad person, that you know I love the team that I played with, but just because of the culture that we're we're currently in and I felt like I was constantly trying to fight for myself and show that I could do it. That, you know, give me the chance and I can play with you guys, and it's not always about your physical capabilities. You know, in terms of the level of coaching that I've had with the GB team, my knowledge of the game, I think I could have given a lot more than maybe I did, because I was sort of building that respect thing. But ultimately, you know they valued me and what I could do and what I did do for the team. But yeah, I still think there's just such ways to go that you know, for women to have that respect.
Sophie Carrigill:And it's a difficult one because ultimately I want women to be playing with women but where the sport is at the moment, there's just not enough women playing it, to have that level of competition, to have a, you know, a women's league that's as competitive as the men's league is. So for my development as a basketball player, it's been amazing to compete with men who are physically stronger. They're bigger. You know, I never ever got a rebound because they're all so much bigger than me, you know. So it's a different game, but in that sense it's been a great opportunity. But I hope that one day that doesn't have to be the option. You know you will be able to play in a women's team against women at that really high level.
Sue Anstiss:And are you there as a woman because they have a number of women within every male team, or is that through the classification, or how do you come to be there in that men's team?
Sophie Carrigill:yeah, so all the teams are mixed. You know there's a lot of teams across Europe that have one or two females playing, so I'm a one point player, but when I play in the men's team you are deducted a point and a half for being a woman. People might listen to that and be, wow. You know that probably shouldn't be the case, but it does offer, you know, for me, teams that are, you know, wanting to play that certain style, that play with a woman and play with four, like higher point male players, it does offer an opportunity for me. So in one side of my head I'm like we should all be equal, and then the other one I'm like well, actually it's posed an opportunity for me to be able to play out here. But, with that being said, that's obviously not the goal for the future of women's sport, and I'm always an advocate to try and improve our you know the landscape of women's sport, and especially in disability sport, where there's just not as many people playing.
Sue Anstiss:I'm fascinated to know is that me on the sideline? Are they not passing to, or kind of? How did that show itself and I guess what were you able to do in terms of standing up to that or calling that out? Or is that something that's hard to do when you're an international player that's just come in for one season?
Sophie Carrigill:Yeah, really difficult position, I think. Yeah, a lot of it shows itself in maybe not getting as much court time or just being on the court and then not being passed to, even if you're free. That's how it sort of manifested itself and I think for me it was a lot of, I think, confidence in myself. I was going into a completely new environment, you know, with all male players, very intimidating because I'd never played abroad before, almost playing with a sense of a little bit of nervousness because you don't know if the players trust you or not yet. So it was a whole host of things that I probably need to like write about, you know, because even just to process myself in how different it was, yeah.
Sue Anstiss:I spoke to Tammy Parler in the last series of the game changes about the huge success of the Women's Sport Trust Unlocked program and you've taken part in it and you're now helping to support the other athletes involved. So can you tell us a bit about the program from an athlete's perspective and and what participating in it meant to you personally?
Sophie Carrigill:I was super lucky to be part of the Unlocked program in the first year that it was running. The program as itself is, you know, really a support network, a massive community that puts athletes together that helps them develop their self, develop their passions, their why, what are they, you know, what do they care about? They care about what are they, you know, passionate about? That's beyond their sport. That's that's creating these role models. That's creating these women in leadership positions that are ultimately going to change the game for sport, you know, in years to come. So for me, it was about, as an athlete, obviously taking part in that. It was about making the most of every opportunity we had, you know, workshops and webinars from leaders in sport, from people working in sponsorship, from social media, to really educate us and make us think about how we could get the best out of ourselves, how we could promote ourselves in a way that was encouraging young girls to take part in sport or being a role model for for me, you know, for other disabled people, and it really massively impacted my life in in being on the program, creating a new network of women that I am, you know, absolute avid fans of now, that I wouldn't have come across before, because, you know, sports don't tend to intermingle with each other and, yeah, for me it was.
Sophie Carrigill:It was life-changing in terms of what it made me think about myself. It really made me value who I was and what my voice was worth. And you know, I'm I'm only from a minority sport, a disability sport, but you know, I think being on the program really made me believe in myself and believe that, even if I'm only talking to five people, what I say and and how I can promote my life or show my life actually can make an impact and is really important. Yeah, it gave me some massive inspiration to, um, you know, be bold in myself. You know, I really leveled up, like on Instagram, and it really allowed me to showcase myself a lot more and give me that confidence, I think, as well because I was with a group of women that were all going through the same thing. So it was a, yeah, an amazing program to be a part of.
Sue Anstiss:Fantastic, and I was going to move on to ask you about your Instagram account. If you look at that, anyone can see your life is so much more than basketball. You like to travel and explore, so I'd like to know a bit more about that. And a question I had is you show a really positive impression of traveling overseas and normalizing that, but I know that in reality, it must be restrictive at times in terms of being in your wheelchair, so kind of, how do you balance those two messages that you're trying to put across?
Sophie Carrigill:You know, instagram is obviously a highlight reel of your life and I think everyone you know knows that and is aware of that, and I think you can use it in a certain way. That is, you know, I'm very honest. I do have good experiences, but sometimes I'll have bad experiences and I do share those too. Travelling, you know, for me, is just part of living an independent life, which is something that is super important to me. You know, being in a chair, being able to find a way to do things.
Sophie Carrigill:You know there is a lot of barriers out there for disabled people still, but the one thing I never want to do is put a barrier on myself.
Sophie Carrigill:There's enough of them out there. So I believe you know that I can, I will do and can do whatever I put my mind to and I just find a way. I feel like that's like the motto of my life. So, even living on Lake Como, being able to get on and off the boats it's not easy, but if you ask for help, nine times out of ten people are very helpful and will always offer you a hand and I think accepting that was a massive, massive thing for me early on in sort of my disabled life was that asking for help isn't a sign of weakness. It actually allows me to do the things I want to do. I sometimes do need a bit of help, and that's okay. So being able to sort of showcase that as well is something that's important because there is still ways and ways and ways to go that we as a society can sort of accept disabled people and then ultimately that reflects itself in the environment that we live in.
Sue Anstiss:I love that. So true, you've also just got engaged and your fiance is also an athlete. So how is that working to elite athletes together?
Sophie Carrigill:Oh, I know Who'd have thought it.
Sophie Carrigill:I thought I did enough sport as it was and immersed myself in sport, and then I am engaged to an athlete, obviously, but I think it's the best way. You know, like, we understand each other, understand each other's commitments more than anyone else would, I think, because we're so passionate and so driven about being successful in our sport. But we've learned to live a life that is so balanced and I think, like you said, that's probably reflected on my social media, because that is, for me, makes me a better athlete. Because that is, for me, makes me a better athlete. It makes him a better athlete.
Sophie Carrigill:And being able to get joy out of life. You know, going out for meals, traveling around Italy like we've been fortunate to live here for um eight months, being able to do those things together, then for me, gives me so much energy to put that back into my sport. And that's how, how I think, how we manage our busy and hectic lives, is making sure we have time together, as well as those times where we're, you know, head down focused on training and and yeah, committed to our sport.
Sue Anstiss:And your profile has really increased in the last couple of years. You're now working with some big brands like Sweaty Betty, so how much has the social media played a part in that?
Sophie Carrigill:I think, massively, you know, and that really is coming off the back of the Unlocked program. You know I wasn't doing anything like that. That was, you know, consciously increasing my profile, consciously increasing awareness of me and of disability sport. So for me, social media has been massive in that, you know, posting regular content. It's a full time job really, you know, if you want to put yourself out there and raise your profile, it is part of your job. You know. It's been a real importance, I think, in raising visibility.
Sophie Carrigill:There's another disabled person in the media making noise, working with brands, making what people see more diverse, more inclusive, and it doesn't have to be me, it just needs to be someone. And people need to be doing that more, I think, and having that confidence to put themselves out there. Because, ultimately, I think back to the girl that I was at 16, having just had a horrific car accident, not seeing anyone that looked like me and not being able to have those aspirations of that's what I'm going to be in the future, that's where I'm going to be in the future. So I think back to that when I'm having those moments of. This is hard, this is, you know, putting yourself out there is difficult all the time, but that's really my motivation.
Sue Anstiss:That's brilliant to hear, and I love your mum on TikTok. By the way, pass that on to her too.
Sophie Carrigill:She's great, isn't she? She's a lot of fun.
Sue Anstiss:It's clear that you haven't let your disability define you and you're you're known at the moment as a GB parathlete right now, but we do hear about the struggles that athletes face as they transition out of sport, so how do you think you'll be affected when, eventually, you do stop playing competitive wheelchair basketball?
Sophie Carrigill:it is something I have I've always considered and always been conscious of. So, you know, when I first started playing, I was also studying. I did my undergraduate, I then went on to do my master's. I worked for the university that I went to alongside playing. That was after Rio. I now work with WST, women's Sports Trust, and do you know?
Sophie Carrigill:Instagram, I think, is a job as well, and doing that is really important to diversify your income stream. I think now we live in a world where no one's just doing one job. Everyone's got side hustles and things going on that are, you know, really important to diversifying your income. Because you know sport, even if I'm still playing, you know funding could go down and funding could completely stop. We're obviously really fortunate to have the funding from UK Sport and National Lottery at the moment, but that might not always be the case. So it's always been something that's played on my mind as something I need to be aware of, and creating a network, creating contacts, is, you know, for me, an important part of thinking about my future and where I want to end up being in the long term.
Sue Anstiss:And you've mentioned the side hustles, but what are your or do you have plans for for the future beyond? I know you did a bit of tv stuff, didn't you? Before? As a teenager, you did a few appearances on television. Is that something in terms of broadcasting, something you'd like to do more of?
Sophie Carrigill:oh, sue, I didn't know you'd mention this, but yes, back in the day, um, I was, uh, you know, had a few tv appearances. Bernard's Watch was my one claim to fame, if anyone remembers that. But at the point I was, you know, 14, I think, when I made the decision to I was doing too much. You know, sounds very much like me right now. I did too much and one thing had to give and I was playing a lot of sport and I was doing my sort of acting stuff and yeah, so I decided to go carry on with sport and sort of give up that for the time being. But it was very much a parked thing, not something that was not there, you know, not gone forever.
Sophie Carrigill:And obviously, being an athlete, we do get opportunities to speak to the media, be on TV, radio, that type of thing, and it's something that I feel very comfortable doing. And it's something that I feel very comfortable doing. Being able to go into broadcasting, presenting, commentating, whatever that might be, is something that, yeah, I do have as a goal, as maybe something down the line. That would be a great opportunity. But you never know, you don't know. I think life throws you curveballs and opportunities left, right and center, and all I know that I am is a yes person. So if an opportunity comes my way, I will always give it my best shot. And you know, if I love it, then great, we continue, and if not, then I think you always learn from everything that you do. So who knows what's coming my way, but hopefully some lots of fun stuff.
Sue Anstiss:And finally, your story is so, so, so inspiring, but if you had to leave us with one piece of life advice, uh, what would that be?
Sophie Carrigill:I think for me, what I've learned over, you know, over the years, especially since my accident, is that challenges and change are the only constant in life, like they are the thing that you can guarantee is going to happen in your life.
Sophie Carrigill:You're going to be challenged and you're going to have to deal with some sort of change and I think if you can approach that with you know, an open mind, you know, find some resilience and be not always positive, because sometimes it's good to be. You know you you've got to be things aren't going to be plain sailing and aren't going to be positive but just to be able to deal with those things, I think you will come out a stronger and better person. And I, you know I'm testament to that, really because of the challenges I've faced and dealt with them head on, and I really do feel like I am a stronger person because of all of that change and challenge that I've had. So I think that would be my thing is, just embrace the challenge and embrace changes, because they can bring out some really amazing, amazing things in you.
Sue Anstiss:Thanks to lovely Sophie for talking with me. It's fascinating to hear more about her views and her approach to life and all she's doing to inspire others, especially with a very positive use of social media. I've been fortunate enough to talk to a number of incredible para-athletes on the Game Changers, so if you've not already, do go back and have a listen to previous episodes where I talked to Dame Sarah Story, baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson, anne Wafula-Stryke, lauren Stedman and Pippa Britton. In fact, you can discover more about all of my previous guests at fearlesswomencouk, as well as listening to all the podcasts on the website. You can find out more about the Women's Sport Collective, a free network for all women working in sport.
Sue Anstiss:You can sign up for Changing the Game, our free weekly newsletter which highlights the developments in global women's sport, and there's more about my book Game On the Unstoppable Rise of Women's Sport. Thanks again to Sport England for backing the game changes through the National Lottery, and to Sam Walker, who does a fantastic job as our executive producer, along with Rory Asquery on sound production. Finally, thanks to my brilliant colleague at Fearless Women, kate Hannan. I don't often ask, but if you get a moment and you'd like to leave a review or a rating for the podcast. That'd be great, as it really does help us to reach a bigger audience with these amazing stories. Do come and say hello on social media, where you'll find me on Twitter, linkedin, instagram and Facebook. At Sue Anstis, the game changes. Fearless women in sport.
