The Game Changers

Tara Dillon: Leadership lessons from the top

• Sue Anstiss • Season 17 • Episode 8

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When it comes to building culture and leading an organisation there are few individuals doing it better than Tara Dillon, the CEO at CIMSPA (The Chartered Institute for Sport and Physical Activity).

Voted as one of the top 5 CEOs in the Times best companies initiative Tara remains passionate about the potential for the sport and physical activity sector to be a vital support arm for the NHS.

Tara has transformed workplaces with her transformative attitude to fostering a collaborative environment and building trust. Hear how Tara’s unique hiring practices, alternative annual leave policy and coaching style of management enable every team member to thrive as a superhero in their role.

At the forefront of CIMSPA’s work since her appointment in 2015, Tara leads initiatives that help professionalise the workforce and enhance the career prospects of those working in sport, leisure and fitness.

Tara began her career in sport and physical activity as a lifeguard in her local leisure centre back in 1987. In 2001 She was appointed Contract Manager at DC Leisure Management, a company specialising in the development and management of leisure facilities on behalf of local authorities.

She went on to be the Executive Director of IQL - the trading arm of the Royal Lifesaving Society and joined CIMSPA as CEO in 2015.

Tara’s sense humour shines through in this fabulous episode. It would be hard not be inspired by her relentless pursuit of excellence.

This podcast was recorded in front of a live audience at the Elevate trade show in London. 

Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.

Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers

Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media

A Fearless Women production

Sue Anstiss:

Hello and welcome to the Game Changers. I'm Sue Anstiss, and this is the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazing women in sport who are knocking down barriers and challenging the status quo for women and girls everywhere. What can we learn from their journeys as we explore key issues around equality in sport and beyond? I'd like to start with a very big thank you to our partners, sport England, who support the game changers through a national lottery award. My guest today is Tara Dillon, the CEO of Simspa, the chartered institute for the management of sport and physical activity. At the forefront of C's work, tara leads initiatives that help professionalise the workforce and enhance the career prospects for all those working in sport, leisure and fitness.

Sue Anstiss:

Tara began her career in sport and physical activity as a lifeguard in a local leisure centre back in 1987. In 2001, she was appointed contract manager at DC Leisure Management, a company specialising in the development and management of leisure facilities on behalf of local authorities. She went on to become the executive director of IQL, the trading arm of Royal Life Saving Society, and joined CIMSPA as CEO in 2015. And joined as CEO in 2015. Voted as one of the top five CEOs in the Times Best Companies initiative, tara remains passionate about the potential for the sector to be a vital support arm for the NHS. It was great to catch up with Tara in person for this podcast, which was recorded live at the Elevate trade show in London. I started by asking Tara to share more about her young life. Where did she grow up and how does sport play a part in family life?

Tara Dillon:

OK, well, I grew up in the West Country and, yeah, sport was very much part of our lives. My dad's ex-RAF he was quite sporty anyway, my mum wasn't, but she was the most amazing taxi driver, cheerleader, supporter of all time and both my brother and I were very sporty when we were younger. So he doesn't work in this sector, but it definitely shaped the way for me. I would say just loved it, thoroughly enjoyed it did you excel at any sports?

Sue Anstiss:

were you sick? Did?

Tara Dillon:

I excel. I played at county level netball, athletics, hockey and swimming. If I was any good at anything, it was hockey. I sort of got to a regional level. There was a window where I probably could have got further but like all sporty people, I damaged my knee and back in those days just didn't have the sort of medicine to fix it completely. But yeah, I was OK at hockey. I could hit a ball. I threw a javelin, sue, and I'm tiny and I don't know how, but I could welly a javelin for some reason.

Sue Anstiss:

But there you go and looking back to your starting in the industry, I think, like many in the event here today, you started out poolside so as a lifeguard back in 1987, I think it was. So tell us about that where you were as a lifeguard and how you started in that role.

Tara Dillon:

Well, I was at college and I was studying my A-levels. I was doing a PE course and a BSEC business diploma. But I had a 1967 Volkswagen Beetle that did about four to the gallon and so I needed a job and on this course I was able to do it was called a bronze medallion, but it's a lifeguard qualification. So I got a part-time job outside of my studies at the iconic Oasis Leisure Centre in Swindon. Yes, yeah, it's not there anymore. You know the band Oasis.

Tara Dillon:

One of their first gigs was at that leisure centre back in the day and that's why they're called Oasis, and it was an extraordinary building. I absolutely loved it. And, um, and quickly I mean they were quite a trailblazer invested in me a little bit and I was part time. So within a year I had a swimming teacher's qualification, a group X qualification, a fitness instructor's qualification. So, yeah, I got a little bit hooked really and then sort of blew my education. So I then stuck it out because back in those days I mean most of the audience are way too young to remember this, but on a Friday at the end of the week you had a little brown envelope with cash in it and somebody with handwritten tax deductions and you know, a 17, 18 year old with cash and the variety. Yeah, I was completely hooked from day one in this sector.

Sue Anstiss:

And then you didn't go to university. You made that decision so clearly. Look at you today. It hasn't impacted your career, but at the time did you have doubts? Why did you make that decision not to follow your I think your friends were going to university, etc.

Tara Dillon:

Yeah, honestly, it terrified me At the time. I was thinking, what have I done? But actually that was the sort of spark of ambition for me. I was so desperate to make sure that I had a job that my friends would enter into when they graduated, not to be outdone by anybody. So very quickly I was a supervisor and a duty manager within about the next couple of years. So and that that sort of cancelled out my ridiculous education mistake to not go to uni. Apart from anything else, loughborough turned me down. So I was ever so upset and I know you are Loughborough alumni so, yeah, if I couldn't go to Loughborough, I didn't want to go. I was a little bit, um, I was incandescent actually, when they refused me. But yeah, so I don't think. Uh, I don't regret it. You know I've worked very, very hard in my career and and and I think if you let things hang over and you know you're not you need to brush off problems and you know, just keep solving and you went on to then be a contract manager with dc leisure.

Sue Anstiss:

So 19 2001 I think that was by the time you were there. So tell us a bit about that role and, I guess, the state the position of local authority leisure and leisure management at that time, which is like 25 odd years ago yeah it.

Tara Dillon:

Well, local authority was very, very different 25 years ago. Yeah, becoming a contract manager for dc, that was, I would say, a pivotal moment in my career and and all of the foundations for what I do today were set there. Um, so local authority was great fun. You know, managing leisure centers for local authority had one line and it was called expenditure, and you didn't need to worry about income or anything like that. It was fantastic. You could just spend a lot of money for local authority, driving up sport and physical activity.

Tara Dillon:

You become a contract manager for an organization like that and you're on the steepest learning curve of all time. So so I had eight sites. Each one of them, every month, had a detailed profit and loss set of accounts with a general ledger that I had to pore over every month, write a report per site. Dc stands for a guy called Dave Cross. Dave would say here's your contract, here's your bottom line. See you in a year and we'll betide you if you didn't hit the bottom line. See you in a year and we'll advertise you if you didn't hit the bottom line.

Tara Dillon:

So I became very commercial very quickly, but also in that role and this will become relevant to Simpsons for in a minute. You have to be an expert in HR, you have to be an expert in marketing, you have to be an expert in psychology, you have to be an expert in health and safety law all of these aspects to becoming a leader. You you have to learn super quick and you have to be resourceful. You can't just wing it and hope. You have to go and make sure that you invest in yourself and learn, because those mistakes in that position were very, very noticeable. But yeah, it's a very different world now. I mean local authority, I think, still struggles today, honestly, sue, because it's so under-resourced, but the facilities had a very healthy injection of cash and investment.

Sue Anstiss:

So, yeah, it became fun, and I do hear a rumour that you still love a plant room. If you're ever doing a facility tour, I love a plant room.

Tara Dillon:

I don't know what's wrong with me, I just love a whiff of chlorine. And if I go to a leisure centre for a tour, I am really interested in the kit and the facilities and the things that have been put on. But I always ask can I have a quick look at your plant room?

Sue Anstiss:

I don't know why I love that. And obviously it was a time of growth of the fitness sector, the private sector. That was where I guess more of my work was at the time. The likes of Fitness First, david Lloyd's, la Fitnesses, esports, et cetera. And when I look back now I do think that so many of those were built by men, male entrepreneurs that came in that created those centres and we saw women, but women working more maybe exercise to music on the kind of front facing of those facilities. Was that similar, would you say? You mentioned Dave Cross in terms of DC, but was that similar in that contract management world that it was very male at the top end?

Tara Dillon:

A hundred percent, and for years. So when I was at DC Ledger there were about 2,000 employees. We probably had about 100 contracts. I was managing one. I was the only female contract manager and that's middle management and I was the most senior female in that organization for years, bar one, Sandra the FT, who thankfully became CEO, but that was for years and years. I was the only female in a senior position, a middle management position for a long, long time.

Sue Anstiss:

And did you ever think about moving across to the private sector? Was it something exciting? It was growing. There's lots of investment. Was that an area that ever tempted you?

Tara Dillon:

I mean, as in the private operators, no because the the difference, the jump from local authority to management contractor, was such a commercial shift that it it was in essence working for a private contractor. So no, I wasn't particularly tempted. You know the onset of those brands in our sector. They didn't affect what I was doing in local authority provision because you know it appealed to a different client and consumer set. You know it was designed around people who could afford that sort of exclusivity and local authority remained very true to its roots. What it did do, of course, is it raised the profile of sport and physical activity. So there were some real positives around it. But in terms of, would it have made a difference? I don't think so really.

Sue Anstiss:

And moving on to when you and I probably first met and had more time and connection together is when you became executive director of the IQL, so the trading body for the RLSS, as executive directors say there. It was a really prestigious appointment at the time. So how did you feel moving from the role that you'd had at DC or within local authority and leisure management to a position there?

Tara Dillon:

Yeah, I mean on paper it looks like a huge leap. It looks like moving from contract management to executive director you or managing a company. But the reality is those foundations and all that learning that I'd acquired in DC Ledger actually set me in pretty good stead to run an organization too, and it was in terms of staffing. You know, I left DC, I was managing a contract in Wandsworth. We had two and a half thousand staff in Wandsworth, right so, and at the time a £12 million turnover IQL was about a £3 million turnover with eight staff initially. But it was a nice, comfortable place to start spreading my wings a little bit, because I was in a big corporation, culture was set, the way we do things and the dynamic of the organisation was already established, whereas that was the leap for me becoming an exec director. I could start experimenting, spreading my wings and sort of putting my stamp on how I'd like the culture to be, and I loved every minute of it.

Sue Anstiss:

And, looking back, I didn't realise you were there for seven years actually. But what if you had to kind of celebrate some of the things that you achieved there as you look back now, what might they be from your time at IQL Culture?

Tara Dillon:

So I'm sure we'll come on to talk about culture a lot, but I don't know about you guys in the audience and I know you very well, sue but nobody really likes being told what to do, do they? We're all okay with being asked what to do, and as adults you became a mum, right? Was there a book that you read that says how to become a mum of three children? And you and I take responsibility for paying our bills and booking holidays and buying the shopping and all of those things we do because we're grown-ups. But there wasn't a book or a compendium of how to be a grown-up. And then what we do is we take that grown-up, we put them in the workplace and we treat them like children.

Tara Dillon:

So if you want to book annual leave, you're going to have to fill out a form and then you've got to pass that on to somebody who's far more important than you Not ever and they get to decide whether or not. I mean, I don't understand why we do that to people. So I'm really into trust and loyalty and respect. So the culture that I developed there and we still maintain really positively today in Simpsons is you are trusted and respected. We don't have an annual leave policy. In Simpsons, we just say you work very hard, take as much time as you need, and you don't need to ask your superior, because we're a very flat organisation Ask your mates. So, whoever you're working with in the team sue, I'm thinking about friday uh, take friday off, is that all right with you? Yeah, no problem at all, or actually no. So it's sort of peer assessed and and that respect is a real golden thread. So that was.

Tara Dillon:

I sort of cut my teeth a little bit on on how to develop a really positive culture that's supportive and respectful but really positive and and I had happy, hard-working and retained brilliant, brilliant people. So that was. I'm going to make a note of that. I remember to use that in the future.

Sue Anstiss:

I'm going to come on to talk about that and I guess that leadership impact you had through that culture too. You, you took the role at Sims for you as a secondment, so you were still in post at the IQL at the time. I do remember talking to you at the time and you were saying you were adamant, there's no way I'm going to take the job full time. And then you did so what happened to change your mind and to you know that kind of commitment to Sims for Well a couple of things.

Tara Dillon:

One piece of advice never agree to a secondment ever in your life, right? So on paper again, it says we'll do two days a week running IQL. We'll do three days a week, seeing if symptoms can work. Rubbish. It's eight days a week. You don't have time to sleep, eat, comb your hair although that's slightly questionable with my hair. It's not realistic.

Tara Dillon:

So I really struggled, really really struggled. So I was completely and utterly disinterested in the role. I do remember saying to you I'm definitely not going for that role, but in that year my job was to work in the sector, consulting with the sector, consulting with employers, deployers, strategic partners, trade bodies, et cetera. Saying if we had a professional body for workforce, what could it do and what should it do and what could it look like and what's going to make the difference? And I was really impressed and enthused, quite overwhelmed at times, and some of my cynicism about how we treat our workforce shifted positively, because the sector did need a professional body.

Tara Dillon:

It was going to get behind it, it it, there was a passion for it. And I thought do you know what I feel so strongly about workforce and our workforce being recognized for the amazing professionals they are? I thought, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna see if I can make this work. So I mean, the idea was to go in, consult, write it down, produce a hundred day plan and then go back to my proper job. But yeah, I was really really quite hooked on it.

Sue Anstiss:

That was 10 years ago, so I know 10, scary, scary, isn't it. I was thinking about reflecting back on my time. I worked a lot in the fitness industry for 25 or so years and when I was thinking about it and thinking about talking to you, some of the funniest times I can remember like literally crying events are in Tara's company. It tended always to be in Tara's company and I was thinking I wonder how then you have managed that? You obviously have a different persona now. You're CEO of Cinespa. You're dealing with with government, with funders, uk Sportsport, england, etc. Dcms. It's a grown-up, serious position, isn't it? So how do you balance that being a funny, some might say irreverent type person with that role of being, you know, seen as responsible and grown up? If you can answer that, are you? Which is the real Tara?

Tara Dillon:

Well, I'm not, I'm not any fun anymore. I'm not sure about irreverent Cheeky.

Tara Dillon:

Yes, flippant flippant maybe sometimes, but um yeah, I mean you and I used to have belly laughs at events and um. It's not appropriate on on this amazing podcast to tell you any stories, but I am open to bribes if anybody would like to know a couple of stories and sue answers later. What I've done is I've channeled um, channeled it slightly and polished so you know you can't go into dcms and tell a dirty joke and hope that everybody you know it's about authenticity and about relatable, being relatable, reading the room and understanding your audience and getting your timing right. But you know I I still have fun and I still have a story or two, but I tend not to do it on stages anymore. You'll remember a couple of stories where I got that wrong. So the simple thing, sue, is you take a job that's highly accountable and highly visible, you need to behave appropriately and you know I still have fun.

Sue Anstiss:

Speaking to some of your team ahead of this interview, many, as you've already, alluded to the work that you did at IQL, but many talked about the joy that they have in working from you and how you truly breathe the culture you've created. I'm going to quote somebody who said Tara believes everyone is a superhero of their role and gives them the absolute trust to bring their A game, and it must be lovely for you to kind of hear that and know that it's having that impact.

Tara Dillon:

Oh yeah, I'm slightly choked to hear it actually. Yeah, that's lovely to hear we work so hard at it. I, you know, my, my, my job, guys, is talking to politicians, talking to trade bodies, speaking on stages, managing a pnl, driving a vision, etc. Etc. And that's very busy and it's all very important. But I commit 50% of my time to making sure that the talent that we've been blessed with in our organisation are cared for, supported, nurtured, heard, recognised.

Tara Dillon:

And you can't stop revisiting culture, the power of culture. So I don't manage people, we coach. I don't manage an organization, I coach the people within it to grow the organization. I am good at two things. I am pretty poor at eight. So we employ unbelievably clever, smart experts to cover the eight. Why on earth would you not protect that and support it and see it grow? So, yeah, as I said, we have a you fall and I'll catch you kind of mantra. Internally, the culture is owned by the team. Know, we went to uh times best companies first time of asking we're a three-star company, which was extraordinary. That has nothing to do with me, I'm not allowed to go anywhere near it, but you were ranked, weren't?

Sue Anstiss:

you in the top five? Yeah, she's so humble, wasn't?

Tara Dillon:

she. Yeah, the bloat from octopus, the energy won it. I got it. Yeah, that was really flattering. I didn't even know that was coming. But that was the staff, that was the team. And when we have conversations and I you know, I have to sort of rerun team days. I never say ever it's such a pleasure to have you working for me. I always say it's an absolute pleasure to work for you. And it's very flat and it's very uh, it's so positive and it sounds very cheesy and you're gonna say I'm gonna go and find somebody who hates working for Simsburg but you can't find me. But genuinely, uh, there's a, a real I don't want to say family, because I think not all families are great, a bit dysfunctional some of them yeah.

Tara Dillon:

Absolutely. But observing how people support each other, have each other's backs and they work so hard at that, own the culture. You know, some people say you really recruit well, or I say no, we recruit wisely. If you ever come for a job at Sims for a while, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. The main part of the interview is not in front of your hirer. The main part of the interview is lunch, so you can come and get lunch and then the team will come and meet you and they're interviewing you and they're checking whether or not you're going to fit the culture and that is as important as how technically qualified you are to do the job. You can train that, but being a sort of positive, dynamic person that fits into our culture is like essential and we are absolutely blessed and that's obviously the inward facing, which is fantastic, that culture, I think, and I look back at what you've achieved.

Sue Anstiss:

At Simsburg, I think when you came in it was struggling slightly financially maybe four of you there and now it's become this, you know, with big funding but having a massive, massive impact across the sector, and a lot of that obviously is almost that collaboration. And I think about at the beginning of whether it was registers or frameworks or qualifications, there's a lot going on that wasn't necessarily unified. Your frameworks or qualifications, there's a lot going on that wasn't necessarily unified. So what do you think it is? What have you brought to that in the outward facing and creating that collaboration within the industry?

Tara Dillon:

Well, there's a few things, sue. First of all, we're funded by the public purse, right? So I think we have a responsibility to use that money to make sure it has the impact on the sector it's servicing. So to adopt an ivory tower approach down would seem ridiculous and irresponsible. So we you know you you will have heard it on lots of our webinars we lead by listening and, and we really mean that. That's a a genuine mantra within the organisation and externally, and I cannot, for the life of me, understand why organisations start to decide what sector needs. You must hear Lots of people listen, but they don't hear.

Tara Dillon:

What is going to be the difference? How can we support you? Where is the biggest impact? You can't please all the people all the time, I understand that, but you can try, and you know, in receipt of a fairly hefty amount of the public purse, um, I feel really quite strongly that um, you need to be able to prove that that spend was appropriate and made a difference. The other thing, so honestly, is you know, I've been in the sector for 38 years. It really helped. Having walked a mile in their shoes, you know, from poolside to plant room, to marketing, to sales, to contract management, to run iql before this, which was a national organization. We know each other and you know it's a small sector relatively speaking, but it does naturally collaborate and I just think we have a responsibility to continue collaborating and listening.

Sue Anstiss:

And you're obviously hugely passionate about people and professionalising the workforce and showcasing those brilliant people, which is brilliant, and it is changing and shifting. But we talked at the beginning, didn't we, in terms of that gender equality and what we saw historically. What do you? Or historically, actually, that could work too, couldn't it? But what do you see in terms of here today, whether the workforce, as we look around the conference, in terms of diversity, both in terms of gender, but more widely too, what more do we need to do as an industry? Do you think? A lot?

Tara Dillon:

You know, when you look at the dynamic in this room, this is great. Is this reflective of our sector? No, so a couple of stats for you. Across all occupations, in sport and physical activity, women account for 44%, but when it comes to management positions and above that, drops down to 39%, which is higher than it was in 2020. So good news is it's getting better. Bad news is it's not good enough and, interestingly, where there is a shift in the balance, it's in fitness instructions and group exercise. Women represent 57 percent. So frontline, etc. Part-time seems to be there, and yet leadership roles and management roles are still as low as 39 percent.

Tara Dillon:

If you look at simsba, we're about 56 percent women and the senior leadership team is 50-50, one, two, three, four, five, five women, three men, consciously, if anybody ever. I mean you've never seen me get cross. I don't think, sue, but I think the closest I got to being cross with our funder or funders was when quotas arrived. I mean, what were quotas about? If we could achieve 30% female representation on boards, where did 30% come from? Why not equal? Yes, and parity and equality. And what does 30%? What message?

Sue Anstiss:

does that send? I thought you were going to say you didn't want the 30% and I was about we're going to have a round stage here.

Tara Dillon:

But yeah, absolutely.

Sue Anstiss:

Yeah, what about quality yeah?

Tara Dillon:

So, yeah, there is some way to go and, as you'd expect as a woman in a fairly influential position, I won't let up whenever I'm in that job and I will work tirelessly for you every single day of my career, however long I've got left, for you, every single day of my career, however long I've got left and I and a barometer of success is. I probably won't retire until I see that equality and parity and I want to retire soon. So, yeah, I don't want to be knocking on 90 and saying we're nearly there soon. We're nearly there. You know that I I've probably got 10 years left in me and we're getting better. We're getting better.

Sue Anstiss:

And as a leader. It's fabulous to hear you talking about the culture that you created at Simmsburg and IQR before. Is that something that has evolved throughout your career? Are you learning now? Are you reading, do you listen or do you feel that you're quite set in the way in the manner in which you will manage?

Tara Dillon:

No, no, no, I'm not at all set. I probably do more in the way of self-development now than I've ever done. Another really great piece of advice for everybody if you can do it right. If anybody has stayed in a hotel with me and there's a few of my colleagues at the front will tell you this bit of a creature of habit. This isn't a rider, but I really need a bath, right, I need a room with a bath. And the reason why I want a room with a bath is around nine o'clock.

Tara Dillon:

I finish work about eight, nine o'clock most nights and then I get in the bath and I turn the lights off. Don't panic that I'm losing the plot, I'm not, and I have a little chat with myself. I do a self-reflection piece every single night, without fail working week, not Saturdays and I think about conversations, interactions, challenges of that day and I have a little chat with myself. How could I have done that better? What have I learned? How did that feel for the other person or the other organization? You don't have to spend hours doing it, it's only five, 10 minutes. Sometimes I have a little fight with somebody.

Tara Dillon:

I can't believe you said that you know, but that self-reflection piece is probably the best form of learning. If you could be honest with yourself, that you'll ever do, because we know we right, we know us, we understand our strengths and our weaknesses. And, by the way, sue, we're confining the words imposter syndrome to the bin, but honestly, we all suffer with it. Another piece of advice if you ever meet somebody who says they haven't got imposter syndrome run, they're probably not that well. So I don't believe it that well. So I don't believe it, and I and I think to have a sense of it. But to turn the dial in terms of your own self-reflection and learning, that's got to be the most. That's only you, only you have that gift and only you know you and only you can criticize you properly for the better. So, yeah, I it constantly learning and I think, the more exposure this job has and the profile that Simsburg has, I owe the sector a duty to make sure that I don't stand still and I'm not setting my ways.

Sue Anstiss:

That's good, I guess. Bringing it back a bit to the industry that we're in and the event we had today, I think it's probably fair to say the public now knows that exercise is good for them and yet the sector the kind of fitness leisure sector only really still reaches maybe 10, 14, 15%, which I think it feels like it's pretty much the same as it was, even 20 years ago. It doesn't really feel like it's shifted. So why do you think that is? I guess? What can we do? What can you do with it? It's simple, for what opportunities are there to change that?

Tara Dillon:

Well, this is going to be seen as slightly controversial. I don't believe the 14%. I think we habitually measure the system that we know and we're not measuring the system that we don't know. Sims for does, by the way, and we're knocking on DCMS's door say this is the real data 94% of our sector is SME. Many of them are in startup or scale-up, so they're not registered anywhere, so they don't get measured, they're not in the system and those startups and scale-ups and one-person bands and CICs and community organizations don't feature on the data. But their reach is incredible and we work with a huge amount of them. So actually I think it's better than 14%.

Sue Anstiss:

What do you think it is? I don't want a precise number, but is it double that, or is it? I would?

Tara Dillon:

at least double. So we'll give you an example Some of the stuff we do in our place-based work, if you go to certain data sets I'm not going to call any out so we went to Leicestershire and a data set suggests that there are around about 57 organisations working in sport and physical activity, and what we found is 10 times that amount. It was just shy of 500. One person or a voluntary group or a cic, and that's where the magic's happening. So then you know, when you look at the lack of diversity in our sector, I think that can be improved just by measuring better. We've got such a long way to go, and my pledge to everybody here on the gender thing is ethnicity too. I absolutely will not rest until we get that right, and so I actually think it's more powerful.

Tara Dillon:

I think the 14% bit is a problem, has been a problem, but I spoke earlier at this event about the change, and what I see is a recognition from the sector that it cannot do the same thing in the same way and just appeal to that very small proportion of the public who've made the decision and can afford it. That's crazy, right? So being a health partner and all the stuff we've talked about for years is now gathering momentum. I think what we've done we made a mistake some years ago as a sector to sort of adopt a top going at the top going at government and give them these wildly large figures of impact.

Tara Dillon:

Our social value figure equals, without being disingenuous to all politicians I'm not sure all of them can even describe what social value is and then when you add a figure of 13.4 billion, is that good? Is that a big number? Is that a little number? But actually, where we're doing this and Sport England are doing this, when you take it to the place, it's at where we're working with integrated care, trust, local authorities, employees, deployers, in a place that's where the data is super rich and that's where the impact is really, really happening. And then you bring that back into the sort of mothership and we're greater than the sum of our parts, and that will turn the head of any government. The sum of our parts, and that will turn the head of any government. So I'm as enthusiastic and optimistic about the state of our sector as I have ever been in us in my career thanks, lovey, I was.

Sue Anstiss:

I was going to round up this one, one of my questions at the end, really, but in terms of your, clearly you've got a long time in your career still, but who knows, when you look back, what would you like that legacy to be of your time across? And clearly your staff and the culture you've created will have a an impact moving forward. But what would you like people to reflect on the impact that you've had?

Tara Dillon:

that the people within our sector are recognized as the professionals that they are. So I, when I sort of tell this story I've told it so many times, it's a bit dull, but I'll do it again. You go to the pub on a Friday night I do occasionally and you meet somebody new and they ask what you do. My conversation goes quite well to begin with. Right Job title CEO. It's quite a thingy job title and it elicits this reaction oh, almost, I'll buy you a drink of what chartered institute can.

Tara Dillon:

Can switch a few people up in what sport and physical activity two things happen. One is shows your biceps. Which which way is the beach? And the other one, bizarrely, is couldn't have a look at my knee, could you? It's been, I'm not a physio, but it's that weird association with not professional. Now we're sat in Elevate, the best event in our sector each year. Take everybody out of this room. Expedition. All of us leave what's left kit, tech, noise, plenty of innovation, extraordinary growth, but without people stood in front of it motivating, tutoring, coaching, nurturing it's nothing, it's just a very flash looking building.

Tara Dillon:

So my legacy is I want somebody's reaction to what do you do? I'm a group x instructor. Oh, I know how qualified you are technically. I know that you are more than that. I know that you're a good organizer, a good planner. You understand injuries. You understand people, your empathy, you look out for unbelievable coaching. Same pts the same. I work in finance in this sector. I work in marketing in this sector. I want to see everybody going. That's impressive. That's the sector I'd like to work in. Just understood fabulous.

Sue Anstiss:

thank you so much for talking to me. It wasn't that bad, was it? No, no, no, I was terrified.

Tara Dillon:

She has Olympians and stuff like that, and I'm not Olympian. Thank, you.

Sue Anstiss:

Thank you. It was fascinating to learn more about Tara's leadership approach and, if you'd like to hear more from other trailblazers in sport, there are over 180 episodes of the Game Changers podcast that are all free to listen to on podcast platforms or from our website at fearlesswomencouk. My guests include elite athletes, coaches, entrepreneurs, broadcasters, scientists, journalists and CEOs all women who are changing the game in sport. As well as listening to all the podcasts on the website, you can also find out more about the Women's Sport Collective, a free, inclusive community for all women working in sport. We now have over 7,500 members across the world, so please do come and join us.

Sue Anstiss:

The whole of my book Game On the Unstoppable Rise of Women's Sport is also free to listen to on the podcast. Every episode of Series 13 is me reading a chapter of the book. Thank you once again to Sport England for backing the Game Changers and the women's sport collective through a national lottery award, and to sam walker at what goes on media, who does such a fantastic job as our executive producer. Thank you also to my lovely colleague at fearless women, kate hannon. You can find the game changers on all podcast platforms, so do follow us now so you don't miss out on future episodes. Come and say hello on social media, where you'll find me at sue anstis, the game changers, fearless women in sport.

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Sue Anstiss

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