The Game Changers
In this award-winning podcast Sue Anstiss talks to trailblazers in women sport. These are the individuals who are knocking down barriers and challenging the status quo for women and girls everywhere. Along with openly sharing their historic careers, what drives them and how they’ve dealt with tough challenges, each episode explores key issues for equality in sport and beyond.
We’re incredibly grateful to Sport England who support The Game Changers through a National Lottery award.
You can find out about all the guests at https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Fearless Women in Sport
The Game Changers
Molly Thompson-Smith: Fighting for Inclusion in Climbing
Can you be a professional climber and still be scared of heights? How much is success down to problem solving versus physical strength? And what can we do to ensure this fantastic activity is inclusive for all?
These are just some of the questions I put to Molly Thompson-Smith, a shining light in British climbing who was ranked number 1 in the world at just 16.
Molly will be representing Team GB at the Paris Olympics when climbing returns for the second time in 2024.
This fascinating episode also explores Molly’s journey from her early days in Ladbroke Grove to becoming a leading force in the competitive climbing world and six times National Champion – overcoming serious injuries on the way to emerge stronger than ever.
Molly sheds light on the ongoing efforts to promote gender equality and increase female participation in climbing, while also addressing the significant issues of diversity and inclusion within the community.
I learnt so much about the sport of climbing in this episode and can’t wait to see Molly in action at the Olympics on August 6, 8 and 10.
Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.
Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media
A Fearless Women production
Hello and welcome to the Game Changers. I'm Sue Anstiss, and this is the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazing women in sport who are knocking down barriers and challenging the status quo for women and girls everywhere. What can we learn from their journeys as we explore some of the key issues around equality in sport and beyond? I'd like to start with a very big thank you to our partner, Sport England, who support the game changers through a national lottery award. My guest today is a shining light in climbing, a six-time national champion who's hoping to head to the Olympic Games in Paris this summer.
Sue Anstiss:Molly Thompson-Smith has been trailblazing in the sport since she started climbing at her local sports centre at the age of eight. By 16, she was ranked number one in the world and won the European Youth Cup, going on to become the first British woman to win a medal in a lead World Cup event. As a mixed-race woman in a sport dominated by white men, molly spent much of her incredible career challenging stereotypes in climbing. Molly, can we start at the very beginning? You were born in Ladbroke Grove, so can you paint a picture for us of life growing up?
Molly Thompson-Smith:Yeah for sure. So I grew up with my two parents and my younger brother, both very sporty parents. My mom and dad actually met playing netball. My dad was coaching a team and my mom was playing for another team and so sport has always been such a huge part of our lives, and as children, my brother and I would just choose a different sport for every birthday party. And when I was seven, I chose climbing for the first time, and I was instantly hooked. I didn't really care how my friends got on, I was just having such a good time, but that was all I was focused on, and I just begged my parents to let me go back. And so, a year later, when I was eight, I finally managed to join the local club and, yeah, I haven't really stopped soon.
Sue Anstiss:And what was it about climbing? I think it was at Westway, wasn't it? I used to do some work for them a while ago, a lovely, lovely centre there. So what do you think it was about climbing and the sensation of climbing that you so loved at the time?
Molly Thompson-Smith:It was just so different. I remember what I'd ever done before. It was such a unique way to use my body I'd ever done before it was such a unique way to use my body. I'd not discovered that at all and as kids, you know you, you body tumble, you, you try and climb, but climbing in this way was just so mutual and so challenging in so many different ways and it just had my full attention, which as a kid is, I think was quite a challenge to attach to. The full attention of the child said yeah, hiring, just was it for more was wow, this is really hard, I have to use my body in this way. But then also I think I can do it, but I'm not quite sure how I get to the top. And so you know that connection between mind and body was a really refreshing and interesting kind of connection to make at such a young age and I think I was just such a black girl because it was so considerable.
Sue Anstiss:So you had some cool parties, birthday parties. It's actually a great not lesson to parents, but it is that whole exposing you to different things and different sports rather than the same old traditional stuff. That's lovely to kind of hear the impact that then had.
Molly Thompson-Smith:Yeah, I thought my parents love for sport was definitely important in my relationship with sport. They were never pushy and they never forced. It was always something that my brother and I really were interested in ourselves, probably because we've just been exposed to it from such a young age. But yeah, they were super supportive and kind of wanted us to find that feeling that sport drove us crazy, almost in a good way.
Sue Anstiss:And does your brother play sports too? What path did he follow?
Molly Thompson-Smith:Yeah, he went down the cricket route for a little bit and then football kind of followed in my dad's footsteps. But unfortunately he tore his MCL a couple of years ago so he's still kind of recovering from that. But yeah, he used to play football regularly.
Sue Anstiss:Excellent and as a sport of climbing generally, is it fairly gender equal in terms of both about participation but competitively um I'd say there are.
Molly Thompson-Smith:There are elements of climbing which are quite gender equal and, for example, our competition is always held at the same time and the prize money is equal, which I think is quite unique in sport and it's really cool and I'm very grateful for that. But I would still say that women are definitely underrepresented in terms of participation and often when I go to a climbing wall like there are definitely less women than there are men. But that is changing and there are great um email area clubs and socials to help improve, I think, the confidence that we're leading into that space, because it has been predominantly and represented by white men, and I think that these social events are really doing a good thing in helping women become comfortable, like confident in those spaces and I'm going to come on to talk to you a bit more about the work that you've done but in terms of other diversity across climbing.
Sue Anstiss:So, both in terms of ethnicity but also economic background, is it an accessible sport and is that changing? I?
Molly Thompson-Smith:think, as with everything, getting more expensive, climbing is definitely getting more expensive and there's more people becoming interested in it. The more expensive gear and equipment and wall entry is becoming, and so I used to say climbing is super accessible, like all you need to do is is find a wall and go climbing. But now, even just I think, a day climbing can cost you up to 20 pounds for one person and a family. Then you know that's just one day of activity and then it's great if you children love it or you love it, but then carrying back it becomes even more expensive. So, as much as I think the fundamental, the fundamentals of climbing are very accessible, like all you're doing is doing up, I guess, and you can climb outside if you want and and nature is technically free. Um, I think there's a lot of work to be done to make climbing more accessible for those who don't have spare income.
Sue Anstiss:That's really interesting, isn't it? I hadn't thought about that. Of course, as it gets more popular and more clothing and equipment and everything comes into it, and more of an opportunity to profit from centres as well, too. Yeah, that does change and shift, doesn't it? It isn't almost like the assumption as we get more people doing it, it's going to bring the price down, but that isn't necessarily the case and I think that gardening has been.
Molly Thompson-Smith:It's such a niche for, and now that there are more people involved there's more interest. There's more development in it as well, and development is quite expensive, and but it also means that the products are getting better. The facilities that walls and gyms are offering are improving. You know, some car animals have got incredible gyms as well, like better than just a gym that focuses on gym, and so with all of this increase on our delivery of product, then I guess there's more costs that come into it as well.
Sue Anstiss:And you obviously had a really meteoric rise in this sport. You're ranked number one in the world, I believe, and World European Youth Cup that you won at just 16. So tell us about that. How did it feel, having so much success as a young woman, I think?
Molly Thompson-Smith:it was exciting but it was also kind of tough because there wasn't much to follow in the British climbing because climbing was such a young sport and we had just pretty much one professional climber, I think well, shorda Coxsey it. Rather it all looks like a long-term career path to me when I was younger. So it's kind of like all my friends would say, oh yeah, molly's off to her climbing thing, she's really good at it and it's cool. But it always had this feeling of at some point I need to snap out of it and find something real to do with my life. So it was amazing where I made so many friends and I think my experience on the youth circuit has really shaped who I am as a person today.
Molly Thompson-Smith:It made me super independent. I was such a great traveller at such a young age. If a robbery dropped me, I was such a great traveler at such a young age and you could probably drop me anywhere and I'd be able to get home no problem and just like, yeah, socially experiencing different cultures as well, it was such a unique experience. But I also was always kind of aware that I wasn't hanging out with my friends or I wasn't putting time into kind of building a career, like my friends were, or thinking about what I wanted to do when I was older, just simply because currently I don't absolutely feel like a career option at the time. But obviously it's changed a lot since I started doing and then it's disappeared and I'm glad I just kind of carried on with it and didn't think too much about the future and allowed myself to almost fall into this, this career that I don't, I don't plan with now and you specialize in lead climbing.
Sue Anstiss:So can you tell us about that and and maybe explain a little bit about the different formats of competitive climbing?
Molly Thompson-Smith:walk, sure. So lead climbing is like milk of their discipline, if you said, and that I would say is the endurance discipline of the three competitive bars that you see, um, and that you will see at the Olympics. So this one you need someone to hold your rope on the ground, called a belayer, and the aim is to climb as high as possible on a route that is set to be challenging, but you only want to try it in a competition. We also have bouldering, which is probably what more people have seen and it has become a lot more popular. We're getting loads of ordering carnivores and popping up around the uk and these are more skill-based problems that you have to try.
Molly Thompson-Smith:They're short, you don't need a rope, you're above the safety mat and a lot of these problems kind of you could mold your class as parkour in a way. They're quite showy and dynamic, but definitely also test balance and technical ability. So it kind of um, just look at all the skills involved in climbing and try and pass you on, though in a much more smaller and shorter space. And then let's see climbing, and I think most people saw that in tokyo at the olympics and it was incredible. I think it fits so perfectly into the olympic volumes. I thought it's literally just a vertical race up a 15-litre wall. Yeah, fastest person wins.
Sue Anstiss:And I think so many of us did fall in love, myself included, with watching the climbing and the speed climbing from Tokyo. Because how different is it as an athlete, as a climber who specialised in lead climbing, to then need to take on those different disciplines as you did? It's different now for Paris, but for Tokyo, um, how, how hard is that when you haven't climbed at speed in that way?
Molly Thompson-Smith:yeah, I say that I only tried speed climbing for the first time, I think three years before the Olympics, and I never tried it after the last competition again and I think an incredible sport at a discipline within climbing. But it's so different to lead climbing and bouldering that you know that they're completely different. Just because sports, um, there's not really much crossing or merging your, the athletes participating in one or the other and and yeah, I think it kind of is more like your other mainstream sports in the way that you train for it. It's very repetitive. So if you kind of put all the things that are involved in speed down on paper, it's pretty much the complete opposite to what you train for when you find a need in boulder and I'm not sure how many other sports exist where the challenge of the competition is unique every single time. I'll never climb the same routes or boulders that I've climbed in previous competitions again. It's like one shot and that's it. Where speed climbing is is the exact same where every single time you go to the climbing gym.
Molly Thompson-Smith:So it was super challenging to add another discipline into training.
Molly Thompson-Smith:I mean, most of us have gone from specializing in one discipline to then having to do two and then three, the third one being a discipline you've never even tried before and requiring completely different training.
Molly Thompson-Smith:It doesn't hinder your climbing ability and lean your boulder, but it definitely hinders your ability to train for them, as the training for speed was so physically demanding it was applying metrics and having gym work and we'd feel absolutely battered after that and then the speed climbing on top, to then go and have to train for your lead in Boulder.
Molly Thompson-Smith:It was really challenging and I think we saw a lot of people either suffer from injuries or get to the end of the Olympic cycle and just be like well, I need to break after that, and I'm really glad they've separated this predicelle for Paris. Firstly because it will then have to train as food climbing, which is a matter of I love watching it and enjoying what is not free, and it means that I can be a better lead climber and boulder athlete. But also I feel like we'll actually get to see the best speed climbers in the world at the Olympic Games, which is where we should be, and so the general audience can see how incredible these climbing athletes are and hopefully the world record's broken, and I think that's that's how it should be.
Sue Anstiss:Yeah, absolutely. I was right, maybe in Tokyo to get it started and to kind of share the house for Just going back to league climbing. So do you compete inside and outside, or is all your competition inside?
Molly Thompson-Smith:So always on an artificial structure. There's not really any competitions that happen on that floor, but a lot of the competition walls that we compete on are outside, which is incredible. One of my favourite competition venues is in Shannon just this little climbing wall although it's not that little, I guess, but it looks little and looks the mountain, yeah and yeah, just having that as your backdrop to the competition is just incredible.
Molly Thompson-Smith:But yeah, so most of our competitions are outside, but on artificial walls, which leads to some interesting weather, especially in mountain areas. I've climbed in clouds, I've climbed in heavy rain, I've climbed in 35 degree heat. It's kind of, yeah, you've got to be prepared for anything when, when cold feces are outside and you talked a little bit about training and obviously training for different elements.
Sue Anstiss:But can you just give us a, an average day of training? What does that look like for you, if there is such a thing? But what? How much is gym based? How much is climbing on a wall, etc yes, there were the two disciplines.
Molly Thompson-Smith:I guess the training was a lot more varied than it would be if you were a specialised one, but one of my standard days I guess which is more neat climbing is. I'll start with finger training and I'll usually do that in Rosella. I have a small climbing wall and finger training set up with some weights downstairs tell us about that.
Sue Anstiss:Sorry, just I've seen it on Instagram, but tell us what that is.
Molly Thompson-Smith:Yeah, yeah that's actually really like a classic step field thing to have like a training race for. I guess we've got this small board it's only like I don't know, less than three years, not that much, and tall but very steep about 50 degrees steep and we've got some holds on there and then we have these things called fingerboards and that's what you train your grip strength on. So you'll there'll be, um, like grooves through the fingerboards and that's what you train your grip strength on. So there'll be grooves to your fingerboards for you to hang off of varying edge sizes. You're down to like six millimeters, so quite small, and I'll go and hang off of those edges with some weight and just progressively overload my fingers so that I'm stronger and stronger and I can hold smaller and less positive holds on the wall.
Molly Thompson-Smith:So I'll start with that and then I will go to the climbing wall and I will do either some bouldering, skill play, practice for a couple hours of working on the common moves that you'll see on the climbing wall. Now that climbing or bouldering has become more dynamic and similar to parkour, you kind of see, you might not see the exact same move in competition or in the climbing wall, but you can kind of practice, the general movement patterns, and so, yeah, I'll spend a few hours doing that and then I'll work on some endurance. So that usually involves just going round and round on the climbing wall and not stepping off until I literally can't hold on anymore and my forearms feel like they're going to explode. And then I'll finish off with some conditioning. So usually some pulling exercises, whether that's pull-ups, weighted pull-ups or through a bench part of just like basic gym work as well.
Sue Anstiss:Wow, yeah, very full-on. And how much when you're competing, is it the clearly a huge amount of physical training there, but also the psychological side and the mental side and, like I imagine, you don't feel fear in the same way of height, in the way that someone might do for the first time climbing a wall, having done it so often. But but how much is it that balance of what you feel you can do and what your body actually can do? I think it's.
Molly Thompson-Smith:I always find it interesting because I'm not. I'm not a massively scarred person, but if I go climbing outside which would be kind of not as regularly as I'd like to, but when the off season I do I do definitely get scared. If I'm high up outside feeling exposed, or even if I'm trying something in the carnal wall and it's you know, I'm at the top of the wall and I have to stand on something that looks really bad and I don't trust my feet, I get really scared and I'll bail. But in a competition, I guess it's the adrenaline and the experience of it all kind of takes over and I find that I'm never scared in a competition.
Molly Thompson-Smith:Whether it's knee-carving or bouldering, I completely trust in my body to do something. It's not even a trusting. I just have to force myself to believe that I can do it, otherwise I won't be able to. The rules are so corrupt and it's so tough and challenging that if you don't have full belief in yourself, that little bit of doubt will be the difference that makes you fall off and makes you unable to progress on the lead route. So I always find it funny how I'm able to do things that I never expect or I wouldn't expect myself to be able to do outside that environment at competition, expect myself to be able to do outside that environment at competition.
Molly Thompson-Smith:But, like you said, the psychological element is leaving, timing and with this problem solving element, that is often a difference between nobody the actual best climber in the world winning and someone else managing to beat them on that day because they could see the method or they could figure it out or they had the mental resilience to push through the fatigue and stay focused long enough to figure out what was required of them to walk to the top.
Molly Thompson-Smith:So I always find that fascinating about climbing. I'm not sure. Obviously all athletes have psychological pressures and challenges when they're competing on the big stage the internal and external pressure. But I think that their problem solving element of climbing is so walking special and the fact that it's so influential on the results. I think this makes it you know, we'll never know who's going to win. Really you can have a good idea, but if they don't see something or yeah, if it was a hold or they just can't, they get frustrated and they can't get out of their head and they can't see the way through, and you know it's anyone's game really that's brilliant, isn't?
Sue Anstiss:it's fascinating. And how do you get better at that? So you can't. You're obviously training with the finger holds and your endurance on the wall, but is it just time and experience of learning to seize? The more that you climb, them more that you will be able to see those things yeah for sure, experience is huge on climbing and we often see that.
Molly Thompson-Smith:You know, they're my all young talents who come on the scene who are probably very capable of winning world cups and challenging tips, but they just lack the experience of competing across years and competing at many competitions that the older athletes have, and I think they're eager. You can obviously train as thoroughly as possible or there are groups or boulders in competition that you didn't manage to do. You can go home and and maybe they'll be on the climbing wall or for summer teams they'll get setters to come in and set them for them and you can practice stuff that you didn't manage to do and and there I guess you've added that skill set to your repertoire. But I think just competition carnival is trying to cover as many bases as possible and hoping that we've got the body, portability and awareness to just learn on the fly.
Molly Thompson-Smith:With bouldering we have five minutes to try and climb the boulder, so a lot of the time we'll see someone's first go and they won't look like they've got it at all. They might be really far off of doing it, but it's quite cool that you can really see their, the thought process. You can see the progression of that climber through each go. So you know before after like okay, lulby, I needed to put my left foot slightly further to the left, or and you can see the small changes that happen in the best climbers and the time it takes from the first go to the go. When I do it is just much smaller than everyone else because they're so good at total operation when they're climbing and then using it to improve the next goes that they have.
Sue Anstiss:We did some when I used to run a PR agency sports PR agency we did some work for a climbing wall.
Sue Anstiss:It wasn't well, we worked for Westway, but it was another climbing centre opening in London and one of the things I remember that was fascinating was around how good it was for kids with ADHD and on the autism spectrum in terms of that, fully focused, engaging your mind, and I know Tess, my youngest, has said when she started it she just loves the fact that she doesn't feel any anxiety, you know, in terms of her mental health, just to be there for a couple of hours completely focused, which is in a way different, isn't it, to other sport where it's fabulous because you might switch off and find your flow in running or whatever, but with climbing she loves the fact and these families said exactly the same because you had to be fully organized, engaged in it, you couldn't think of other things because you have to be so focused yeah, for sure, and that's one of my favorite things about climbing as well, and you know I've got a great attention span at all.
Molly Thompson-Smith:But I find I'm terrible, for, you know, sitting on the sofa watching somebody also scrolling on my phone or reading a book or doing five things at once. But when I go climbing that's all I can do and I really have to focus on everything that I'm trying to do on the wall. Otherwise I just can't do anything. And I think it's really cool that the sport requires full attention, because there's that mental element, there's the physical element, there's also a safety element as well, like you can't really just stop paying attention because you can hurt yourself for climbing more. And so, yeah, I think it's quite rare to find a sport that really kind of captures the full attention and pulls on all of these different aspects. I think it gives a really satisfying experience and takes you far away from wherever you are in your day-to-day life. You can lean, escape.
Molly Thompson-Smith:I go climbing for so many different reasons. Obviously, I go climbing to train, for competitions and kind of work, but then I'll also go climbing with my friends and maybe we'll drink more tea and do that till climbing, or maybe I'll go climbing for a couple workout where I want to get a sweat on and I want to feel like I've worked really hard. And sometimes I will climb just because I'm really stressed in daily life and I want to not think about everything that's going on in my life and I just want to go and feel connected to my body and be one with movement and expression on the wall. And so, yeah, I love that climbing can represent so many different realms for different people.
Sue Anstiss:That's beautiful. That's very lovely to hear, very lovely to hear. You did talk about, obviously, the safety side, and you did have a pretty horrible injury at the end of 2017. I'd watched some of the pictures, but tell us about that, and I guess how tough it was to come back from that too, yeah, so.
Molly Thompson-Smith:I've been pretty unlucky when I had two major injuries in my career. The first was in 2017, when I ruptured three pulleys and one finger, which is probably not that big a deal to most, I guess, average people who don't climb, but as a climber, your fingers are your own tool. Without your fingers, you can't really do too much. And so it was a devastating injury injury and it was at the end of my best World Cup year so far. I'd only did my first final and then made some more and then ended the year. The last competition would have brought this medal at a World Cup and achieved something I never thought I would achieve within the first few years of doing senior world cup competitions. And so I was.
Molly Thompson-Smith:I was riding a high from an amazing year and I was so motivated for the next year to be even better. And then it kind of I think it's December I did it. I ended up rupturing three pulleys in one year and near any big surgery because I couldn't. I couldn't move my finger. Pretty much it was. I was just stuck in a bowstring position. But as challenging as it was, I'm always kind of grateful for injuries because they remind me why we do things and how much the walls. We and I think it's easy to not be complacent, but get a bit either tired of what you're doing or think that there's something else you should be doing or yeah, not really have the right mindset for it.
Molly Thompson-Smith:Sometimes just finger injury, really testicle.
Molly Thompson-Smith:It made me question whether I wanted to do khanning or not.
Molly Thompson-Smith:And it kind of came at that point after school where I was like I should probably get a real job or, you know, actually do something with my life, like look for a career, set myself up, and I was like I should probably get a real job or, you know, actually do something with my life, like look for a career, set myself up, and I was like hang on, no, I really love climbing, so important to me and to my mental health as well as physical, and I know I can make a career out of it.
Molly Thompson-Smith:And I was able to kind of help a lot of people through their injuries at the time as well. And that was maybe the first time I'd felt the power of social media in a really positive way and the impact I could have as a professional athlete, as a public figure, connecting with people, really providing some motivation or inspiration and helping them through their challenges as well. And so that was kind of a pivotal moment in my career really, and coming back from that just showed me how resilient I could be as well, and I never really faced any challenges like that all my life, and so it was really challenging and really difficult, and I never wish injuries on anyone, but I think there's always some good stresses to come from them that will help us become better and stronger people.
Sue Anstiss:And you came back remarkably quickly, I think. From an outsider's perspective, I guess that's the support that you have around you as a GB athlete, etc. But you were back, I think October 2018,. You won the national championships and that happened only in December before, so I can only imagine the amount of rehab and work you had to do to get back.
Molly Thompson-Smith:Yeah, as a professional athlete, I was lucky enough to have the time to really dedicate myself to the rehab process and make sure the people around me were the people I needed to help me get back to it, to remind me why on the days where I would forget, or to just make sure I always had something to be doing. So I felt like I was working towards getting back to fitness. So I was back at World Champs in September, I think, and I had my best result there, and then I managed to win the national championships again in October. So it was a difficult year, but there was also a lot of good that came out of that year as well.
Molly Thompson-Smith:And I remember being told just before I had surgery in January, by the surgeon like oh, I'm not sure if you will be able to climb with S&B again. This is a pretty devastating injury and I'll do my absolute best. But you know, you just have to be aware that you might not be able to be what you once did. And so, yeah, that was. That was obviously not very nice to hear before going into surgery, but it kind of fired me off and made me good time and to prove to my surgeon that I could get back to the level that I was at before and and go beyond basically, and I did, and, and that thing will give me absolutely no problems and that's what we've been doing.
Molly Thompson-Smith:I see no problems nowadays. So thanks to the surgeon for doing an excellent job, but also thanks to the reason they're not really wanting to prove people were awesome.
Sue Anstiss:It's funny because I do. I have spoken to, we've been very privileged to speak to lots of athletes and I do often hear that people saying, oh, the surgeon said I'd never walk again.
Molly Thompson-Smith:So I came out and I didn't. And you think what would those surgeons know? That they're just feeding in the whatever to make you come back even harder. I think there's like the personality trait of most athletes is written out really, really stubborn, and proving people wrong is like something we love to do. Um, but I think that that comes from you know, coaches, surgeons, always telling us we can't do something. He loves, that it fires up to them we know their secret.
Sue Anstiss:Now, moving on to tokyo, we talked about the, the, obviously, um climbing being there for the first time, but sadly you missed out on a place in tokyo and I think I'm obviously must have been very tough, but many athletes might have switched off completely and I know some don't then watch the games they're not in. But you almost took a different route and got very involved. So tell us about your activity there.
Molly Thompson-Smith:Yeah, I was actually guided to Ristau and take it for a vacation and qualify for the Olympics has been a dream of mine and so, as devastated as I was to not be there in person, I thought that I would love to still be involved because it was such a special moment for our sport, like an Olympic debut. It's pretty cool to just be around at. The opportunity came up to kind of do a bit of commentary for the BBC and to all the point about climbing to a wider audience, and I was like you know what? This is probably the next best thing for me. I love talking to people, I love introducing people to climbing and so to have the opportunity to be the person that people see in horror yeah, an absolutely easy decision to kind of take that opportunity to be the one he should explain what was happening, hopefully kind of lure people on and get them interested on this sport.
Molly Thompson-Smith:that has completely changed my life was what a no-brainer, and I absolutely loved the opportunity to also just see a different kind of element of of the world that I operate in. As an athlete, I'm very selfish and very focused on exactly what I'm doing, but it was really cool to see the other side of the camera and see what happens behind the scenes and see how what we do is kind of portraying war to people who are giving us the motivation to train really hard, to go out and compete and to support us. So, yeah, I absolutely loved that experience. It was so cool.
Sue Anstiss:Would you like to do more of that in the future? Is that something you enjoyed? Yeah, I think so I love.
Molly Thompson-Smith:I love taking people carning for the first time, like seeing that almost light bulb moment and seeing that kind of seed of um fiery, like passion and motivation and so inside them when they overcome something and achieve something or get anything they should do.
Molly Thompson-Smith:Like when people walk into a carnival for the first time and they look up and they're like absolutely not, like I cannot do that. Or they start climbing and they're like but I can't get up there and like I can't do it. I hear I can't, I can't, I can't so much. But with a little bit of gentle persuasion and some help, some little, some tips, like seeing people overcome this such a strong word of I can't is just such an amazing experience and I absolutely love it. And so I feel like the presenting is kind of always the first step being able to make curling accessible and make it feel attractive and hopefully make people feel connected with the sport and inspire them to then go try it and maybe find something that's going to use their life, whether it's for their physical health or their mental health, their social relationships, like there's just so many bits of climbing that I think will improve people's lives oh, you make me go.
Sue Anstiss:I have to tried a little bit in the past but you even talking to you, it's like, oh my god, I really should get back down to that wall. In reading you said you've kind of brought people into the world of climbing through the punditry and so on at olympic games. How much do you think climbing's inclusion in the games did generate more interest in the sport and and participation? Have we seen a kind of uplift because it had that exposure? I think for sure.
Molly Thompson-Smith:Like climbing was building on ways and popularity. I think it was inevitable for it to reach more people with time because it is such a cool sport and there is this kind of new interest in these urban sports like skateboarding, climbing, dmx, breaking. But I think the Olympic Games obviously points the sport to a whole new audience and a whole new level of viewership and visibility, and we're seeing so many new climbing walls pop up over the country, like London. There's just there's climbing everywhere and it's great that there's now. Pretty much everywhere you look on the map there'll be a climbing wall, whether it's a very small basic one or one of the kind of chains that are very popular within climbing. I think that we're becoming more fundamentally accessible in that there are more climbing walls around in the UK and, yeah, I think the Olympics definitely to thank for that.
Sue Anstiss:And in terms of Olympics for Paris coming up. So what's the qualification process there and where are you?
Molly Thompson-Smith:So the qualification process is almost in our spartan. The first few spots were handed out last summer at the World Championships. The podiums got their tickets to the Games, so there were three there, and then after that, towards the end of the year, we had all the continental championship events and each winner got a ticket there. So now we're left with I think it's 12 spots out of 20, 20 men, 20 new women, and we've just had the first Olympic qualifier series event, which also included breaking BMX and skateboarding as a multi-sports event, and so I was just in Shanghai for that. I got back just over a week ago. And then there's a second one in Budapest in a three and a half weeks time. There were points you could win in Shanghai and there were points in Budapest, and then a combination of those two points will leave us with the top 12 ranked athletes and go all that net tickets to the bronze, which is super exciting, but also it's all kind of happening very last minute.
Sue Anstiss:Isn't it, I know? And how did you get on? And how are you feeling about qualification?
Molly Thompson-Smith:Shanghai went pretty well for all. I finished up 13th place and so I guess technically one spot out of qualification. But we have this country quota rule for climbing where there are only two athletes um eligible for the goals per country and because one Japanese athlete had already qualified at world championships, one, maybe four Japanese women at the quarterfinal series, but only one of her was eligible for a and I had got two of them above me, so it kind of brings my score up. So I'm in the qualifying 12 at the moment. But yeah, there's still one more event, but I'm really looking forward to Budapest.
Molly Thompson-Smith:Shanghai was incredible. The urban park where the competition was held was amazing. I thought the climbers were still very new to this multi-sport. Being included in the fun part of things is still quite new for us. It was incredible to be around so many other athletes from different emotions and sports. It was incredible to be around so many other athletes from different regions and sports and to feel important in a way, to feel, yeah, like we were a big show. So it was an amazing event. But China definitely comes with its challenges and so I'm very much looking forward to Budapest, which should hopefully be a little bit more comfortable, and my partner and my parents will also be coming out for that one, so I'll have their support and I know that will just mean so much to me to be able to compete with them on the sidelines.
Sue Anstiss:And it does as you say. It feels quite late. It's June, isn't it? Mid-june Budapest.
Molly Thompson-Smith:I know by the time Budapest is done, it will be like the 28th or something like right at the end, or 23rd, so there'll be. I think it was like six weeks between the last co-pilot and what was starting, so it's a really small time around. But I think after the pandemic, most of co-pilots, like Olympic ticket holders, won their spots almost two years before the grains, I think, and so obviously you couldn't predict something like the pandemic.
Molly Thompson-Smith:But, yeah, this time we wanted the very best current athletes to be at the gold, so they opted for kind of the shortest weather possible, which I understand but has made it very stressful, yes, yeah, and a very hard to plan the next few months, because it's like well, I don't know. I might need to be involved, but getting out, or I might need to be in here for the goals, yeah it's weird as well, isn't it?
Sue Anstiss:I'm so pleased you've explained it.
Molly Thompson-Smith:I did try to follow and your lovely uh team did send me some links, but you've explained it much clearer, I know it's funny, primal has changed a lot in terms of, like, the competition format and all the points, and even sometimes we're just like who's gonna win? What's happening? And the qualification system has been complicated and I'm often asking my coach oh, but does this mean this? And and is this still available? And right, yeah, we're, we're getting there and I'm sure that we'd hope, through more Olympics to come kind of we'll settle into a more simple and solid cruise festival.
Sue Anstiss:You've talked so passionately about climbing and inclusion and bringing more people into climbing. I did see some really shocking statistics that 90% of the UK's black population have never tried climbing or mountaineering. So I'm really interested in your, your thoughts on that and I and clearly I can see how passionate you are, as I say to to drive that change yeah, and I guess until I properly started climbing was part of the national theme.
Molly Thompson-Smith:I was probably one of those people included in that statistic. Like my parents and I, we'd never been to the national park as a family, as when I was a kid we'd never been on a walking holiday or kind of done anything outdoors like that. We went to Brittany and we had a beach holiday once a year and that was kind of the extent of it. So I can totally see how we've kind of got to that point and how underrepresented some communities are, because my biggest thing is that you can't see it, you can't be it for a lot of people, and so the fact that there's only 1% of representation in these places it kind of just trickles down and it means that there's less of an incentive for those communities to visit those places because they seem even more alien without people that they might as well can connect to there. So hiring has a long way to go, like it's. It's improving, as most things are, I think, but very slowly and it's requiring like a lot of hard work from very few individuals because, like those are the only individuals that exist in this space for everyone. So you know, there's so much a person or a small community group can really do on their own. There's only so much they can bring about without, you know, having a huge impact on themselves really. And so, yeah, I think climbing is definitely getting better and I'm really passionate about improving all people in their destiny in climbing. It's hard to do as much work as I'd like to at the moment, with training and competition has been so demanding and being away so much of the time.
Molly Thompson-Smith:But there's some incredible community groups who are already putting on sessions, talking people outside for the first time. There's one in London called Climax Star and I love those guys. They're amazing. They've been going for I think they just had their fifth birthday or something, but I remember joining their group. I had my first session with them. It was almost like the missing piece of the puzzle that I'd never even I'd kind of maybe been in denial that it was missing and then, once I'd seen it, I was like, wow, this is kind of the environment that I'd been wishing for my whole climbing life, as this little girl who felt so different, who hated putting a helmet on her brushy hair and an instructor like wiggling it on because it didn't fit on like the other girls from you know, having comments about my hair or my skin tone or where I should be, from being stared at.
Molly Thompson-Smith:When I went to National Park, the board feeling extremely out of place and in fact I was pretty much the only person of colour on the competition circuit for years during Ross Community Group was like oh, now this is what climbing could be for me and for other people as well, and it just felt amazing. So I'm a huge supporter and partner of the work that they're doing and really looking forward to once I slow down the competition to there and have more time, to actually maybe be the person that takes those communities outside for the first time or introduces them to climbing. So yeah, for now I guess there's a bit of a tool, I don't know. Just being a public figure and going to the competitions and showing up and representing is how I'm not just me trying to tackle inclusion and diversity, because that's kind of all I've got time for right now, but once I have more time I'm so excited to where I really do some work.
Sue Anstiss:I spoke to Sabrina Pace-Humphreys on the podcast as well, who does a lot of work in the space around trail running, and I think that really resonates with me your comment of going to that group and and seeing how different it could be and the events and the groups that she's created or she's been a part of creating how different that then really feels that environment in terms of I guess that wider outdoor space and I think Sport England actually have done some good work with this I can a recent iteration, but in terms of bringing people into the outdoor space, because it is something that's so overlooked, I think that when it's been done in a way for so long and you're kind of new to it, you don't want to make a mistake or you don't want to do something wrong, you don't want to get caught and what's the reason to kind of look at your different laws.
Molly Thompson-Smith:So I can still see why people are intimidated by going outdoors, even though there's this whole narrative that the outdoors is wanting to go outside, it's free, it's there for everyone. But you know, when it's been operated in a certain way for so long, I can still understand why people are nervous and intimidated or go to see themselves in that space and being able to be comfortable. It was such a journey for me to learn how to be comfortable and save from confident in and outdoors. When I was younger it felt so foreign to me. It was like a multi-year journey really, and I was able to do it because I had people who supported me through it and who cared about my experience and who really, you know it was like don't do this or we do this because of this and it just, yeah, made me feel comfortable.
Molly Thompson-Smith:And I think there's also the again the safety element as well, like when people are going outside there is. It can be dangerous like a foreign mountain rescue on on Instagram or Facebook the rescue group a few years ago, and wouldn't they just see a matter of injury? You know people who suffer from a war, porn or whatever, and it's crazy. And so I think when there's that like safety danger element as well, it's even harder to put yourself in a new environment, because there is there is a risk as well, and and so I'm really continuing to run very hopefully, like you know, take people outside, teach them how to operate in the outdoors safely, and then they can go and use it however they want, for whatever reasons they want. And, yeah, just having that confidence in themselves that they can use it how they like and they'll be safe and they know what they're doing, I think is key and just in closing, I almost feel you have kind of answered this in terms of the why.
Sue Anstiss:But if we were to encourage more women, men and women but to come to climbing perhaps that haven't tried climbing before what would you say in terms of the reason for people to come and get involved in climbing now? Why get?
Molly Thompson-Smith:involved in climbing. I would say get involved in climbing because it's a sport that well, it will take over your life. Really it's a lifestyle sport, but I love it because it can be molded to whatever you need it to be. Life is stressful. We all have our challenges and things going on in life that are really hard to deal with. But hiring is that escape that's good for you mentally and physically, like you are working out, but sometimes it doesn't feel like exercise and you know there's a huge community where that will welcome you and you can tackle it here. And, and I thought that it's such a unique sport in that you can completely take your mind away from everything else that's happening, or you can, you know, push yourself physically or you can find people there and there to support you. And so please come and try climbing. Please come and make climbing fit in with your life, because it has the power to do that and to be only for you to be at any time.
Sue Anstiss:I hope you enjoyed hearing from the incredible Molly Thompson-Smith. What an inspiration she is and we wish her well for qualification for the Olympics this summer. If you'd like to hear from more elite female athletes like Molly, there are over 180 episodes of the Game Changers podcast that are free to listen to on all podcast platforms or from our website at fearlesswomencouk. Along with athletes, my guests have included broadcasters, coaches, entrepreneurs, scientists, journalists and CEOs all women who are changing the game in women's sport. Changing the game in women's sport. As well as listening to all the podcasts on our website, you can also find out more about the Women's Sport Collective, a free, inclusive community for all women working in sport. We now have over 7,500 members across the world, so please do come and join us.
Sue Anstiss:The whole of my book Game On the Unstoppable Rise of Women's Sport is also free to listen to on the podcast. Every episode of Series 13 is me reading a chapter of the book. Thank you once again to Sport England for backing the game changes through the National Lottery and to Sam Walker at what Goes On Media, who does such a brilliant job as our executive producer. Thank you also to my lovely colleague at Fearless Women, kate Hannan. You can find the Game Changers on all podcast platforms and do follow us now so you don't miss out on future episodes. Come and say hello on social media, where you'll find me on LinkedIn and Instagram at Sue Anstis, the Game Changers fearless women in sport.
