Hannah Mills: Making waves in climate change

Today’s guest is the most successful female sailor in Olympic history - Hannah Mills OBE.

Hannah won a silver medal for Team GB alongside Saskia Clark at London 2012, before the pair went on to win Gold in Rio 2016. Hannah retained her Olympic title with new partner, Eilidh McIntyre at the Tokyo Games in 2021, and was also the Team GB flagbearer for those games.

Off the water Hannah’s hugely passionate about the environment. She’s an International Olympic Committee Sustainability Ambassador, who launched the Big Plastic Pledge in 2019, and co-founded Athletes of the World, an athlete group campaigning for positive impact around climate change. 

In 2021, Hannah joined Sir Ben Ainslie’s SailGP Team as its first female sailor as part of SailGP’s Women’s Pathway Programme. And in 2022 she returned to the water just a few months after the arrival of baby Sienna.

Hannah was awarded an MBE in 2017 & an OBE in 2022, for her services to sailing and the environment.

From her first experience on the water, through an extraordinary Olympic career, Hannah talks so openly about her journey to become the most decorated female sailor in Olympic history.

Her journey since Tokyo has also been incredible, and we explore Hannah’s transition to a SailGP team on the Women’s Pathway and what the future holds for women in this very male dominated sport.

Hannah is refreshingly honest about the challenges faced in returning to sport after having a baby, and it’s wonderful to learn about the support from SailGP that’s made this possible.

Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.

Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers

Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media

A Fearless Women production

Transcript

Hannah Mills: Making waves in climate change
Sue Anstiss  00:03

Hello and welcome to the Game Changers. I'm Sue Anstiss, and this is the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazing women in sport, exploring their stories as we consider wider issues around equality in sport and beyond. I'd like to start with a really big thank you to our partners, Sport England, who support the Game Changers through a National Lottery Award. 

My guest  today is Hannah Mills, the most successful female sailor in Olympic history. Hannah won a silver medal for Team GB alongside Saskia Clark at London 2012, before the pair went on to win gold in Rio 2016. Hannah retained her Olympic title with new partner Ailey McIntyre at the Tokyo Games in 2021 and was also the Team GB flag bearer for those games. 

Off the water, Hannah was hugely passionate about the environment. She's an international Olympic committee's sustainability ambassador who launched the Big Plastic Pledge in 2019, and she co-founded Athletes of the World, an athlete group campaigning for positive impact around climate change. In 2021, Hannah joined Sir Ben Ainslie's sail GP Team as its first female sailor and as part of Sail GP's women's pathway program. In 2022, she returned to the water just a few months after the arrival of baby Sienna. Hannah was awarded an MBE in 2017 and an OBE in 2022 for her services to sailing and the environment. 

So, Hannah, you've clearly had the most extraordinary sailing career and there's so much I'd love to explore with you. But can I start by asking you about your first experience in a boat? When was that? 

Hannah Mills   02:26

Yeah well, my first experience sailing was when I was seven years old, on a family holiday down in Cornwall. My two older brothers had been on a sailing course and I was just desperate to have a go. I just wanted to do everything they did and you had to be eight and so I got to have a quick go for an hour. They let me come out, and I just absolutely loved it. So the following year, when I was eight and we were back down on holiday, I got to have a proper go for the whole week and fell in love with the sport and begged my mum and dad to let me carry on when we went back to Cardiff, where I grew up.

Sue Anstiss 02:59

And were there elements that you felt when you were on the boat at that time that kind of stayed with you for all of sailing. Do you still feel those elements today? 

Hannah Mills 03:10

Yeah, 100%. Actually it's such a unique sport in many ways I think, especially for a kid. You know you're out on the ocean, which is just so vast, and that sense of freedom and being in control of a boat for any child, I think, is just the most magical thing and it just gives you such a sense of responsibility and confidence. I guess that you can, you can do something like that and and it's still still the same, in a different way, it's, yeah, it's so freeing being out on the water. 

Sue Anstiss 

03:42

Bigger boats now!

Hannah Mills 

Bigger boats yeah!

Sue Anstiss 

And in terms of that pathway then into competing, did you know from an early age that you did want to compete, or was it just something that you were doing for the joy and the fun of sailing? 

Hannah Mills 03:56

I mean initially, for sure, it was just the joy and the fun, but I was unbelievably competitive at everything, probably horrifically so for mum and dad. And yeah, it was only a matter of time, probably until I realised you could race boats. And then for me, that was just it. I was absolutely hooked at the possibility of racing other people and trying to beat them around a course on the water. Yeah, it was amazing. 

Sue Anstiss  04:24

Did your brothers go on to sail competitively? 

Hannah Mills 04:27

No well, my oldest brother didn't get past that first week. Actually he had a bit of an issue where he got stuck under the sail when the boat capsized, which is where it flips over, and so just hated it, but he wasn't really into sports that much anyway. And then my middle brother he loved sailing but he's not really competitive, and he now coaches sailing, actually at the local sailing club in Cardiff. 

Sue Anstiss  04:52

So still in the family there. And what was the process like? What was the competitive side? So what was the process like then to qualify in terms of team GB and that Olympic pathway.  

Hannah Mills 05:07

Yeah, well, my family weren't really sailing as a tool so we didn't have any idea about, well, the fact that sailing was even in the Olympics or the pathway. 

05:15

But it was really clearly mapped out, to be honest, which made it really easy to kind of follow, I guess for people that didn't know which was us. So you know, I got into initially the Welsh squads at sort of under 16 in the Optimus class, which is a single-handed boat you sail on your own, and then through that got selected for kind of some of the British squads. All the way through youth sailing in the different boats you can sail. And I knew in the back of my head, if I got a top three result at a world championships in that youth period I could make the jump to the Olympic development squad at the time, which is kind of the pathway, I guess, to going to the Olympics. So that was always the goal for me was to get that top three, which I managed to do and so jumped onto that development squad and then it's just purely racing the boats that you'd race at the Olympics and so it's very much like a trajectory of your results in international competitions to see if you're ever going to get to the place you want to get to. 

Sue Anstiss  06:15

Friend’s daughter’s, part of the GB windsurfing setup and I'm always amazed to see how global the sport is. I see her posts of where she is around the world and I guess that's the same for sailing and windsurfing. That so much overseas travels. That must have been a challenge for the family, but I'm thinking of that kind of a commitment that the family needs to make to support you in a sport like sailing. 

Hannah Mills 06:35

Yeah, it was. It was a good commitment from everyone, which was, which you know, so fortunate that that mum and dad were able to do that for me and, and, yeah, support me in that journey. Definitely, with the sport, it doesn't have to be that commitment. You obviously probably to go to the Olympics, you probably would need to do a lot of that, but there's so much now around the grassroots and just getting people out on the water and enjoying the sport locally in the UK and we've got endless coastline and possibilities and even inland. You know, I learned I really learned to sail on a on a reservoir in Cardiff. So so, yeah, there is a lot of work being done to try and make it just UK based and more accessible as well. 

Sue Anstiss  07:19

And obviously it's over a decade ago now, but what a place to start that Olympic career. So London 2012. What are your memories now when you think back to that home games, and lots has happened since then. But as you reflect on that, what are your kind of core memories of going into those games? 

Hannah Mills 07:35

Yeah, I mean, London was just everything for any athlete that had a shot of going to the Olympics like to get to a go to home games was just you can do it, have jumped it growing up really. So, yeah, just to get there was was a huge battle. In sailing there's only one spot per class. So there's 10 Olympic sailing classes and, yeah, just just one country spot for each one. So, just to get there was a huge battle. And I always felt like if you could get there as part of the British sailing team, if you get to the games, you're going to be with a shout of getting a medal because we had such good depth and inability so you kind of had to be in the top three or five in the world just to just to qualify for the game. So we did manage to qualify, which gave us a huge confidence boost. I was in a two handed boat at this point, 470 sailing with Saskia Clark. Saskia had been to the Beijing Olympics, so she's got that Olympic experience and that was a huge boost as well. 

And I remember like we just like,  everything about the London games was just like embrace, embrace the whole circus that is the games, because it is just unbelievable. There's just so much stuff going on. You know you're part of team GB, which is just like the most phenomenal thing. You really feel like you're in this family of other athletes and they make it feel incredibly special and, yeah, we just embraced everything that was Olympic and, I think, put that into our performance. Really, we didn't shy away from what we were there to do and I think for me, as a first time games goer, that was that worked really really well and, yeah, we had the most amazing, amazing time, except for the fact we got a silver medal, which, granted, is obviously great. But yeah, we, we, we went, we went there to win for sure. Yeah, it was at the time and even now it feels really bit frustrating and disappointing. 

Sue Anstiss  09:29

It's weird, isn't it? I remember that image of you in tears being comforted by Saskia at the end of the race and it makes me think it's so tough, isn't it? That's you, as you said, you win a silver medal at the Olympic, at home Olympic Games. It's a great sense of disappointment. So, at the time, how did you cope with that? Because you're young, you know young athlete coming into the games too. 

Hannah Mills 09:49

Yeah, I think,  I always think this with the Olympic. The Olympic is always about how you, how you win the medal, and for us in that moment it felt like we'd lost the gold rather than won the silver. And so you know, you, in the moment you're there with all these thoughts like should it would have, could have,   in hindsight, should have done this, should have thought about that, and you just don't know if you'll ever get shot again of being that close to winning an Olympic gold medal. You don't know what's coming in the future. You know, as I said, just to qualify for the games as part of the UK British sailing team is incredibly hard and I thought Saskia  might retire as well, because she'd already done two Olympics. So there was lots of just emotion and you're in front of your friends and family as a home games. You'll never get that chance again. So, yeah, lots going through your head in that moment. It took a long time to kind of, I guess, process it and bounce back and think do I want to put myself through all of that again without any, any sort of guarantee of an outcome at all.

Sue Anstiss  10:53

It's interesting, isn't it? I spoke to Holly Bradshaw on the podcast about that kind of post-Olympic blues period too, both for those that win gold and those that win any medals and those that don't win medals but almost have that impact. The athlete and I think sometimes as a spectator or a fan of the sport, we just watch it for the few hours that we do, or the few weeks it's on, and then we move on with our lives and you, you know, don't comprehend the impact that it has on on people's lives and well being throughout their careers too. 

Hannah Mills 11:23

Yeah, so it's a really funny thing. Don't get me wrong. It's the most unbelievably amazing thing to train and compete and try and get to an Olympics and then ultimately try and perform at an Olympics. It's incredible, but, like with anything that's, you know, incredibly challenging and takes almost everything out of you to be able to do it.  It comes with highs and lows and, you know, after the Olympics win or lose, there is this void of you know you've been working sort of your whole life, but definitely four years, towards something that lasts a day, a week or whatever, and then it's gone and all that support's gone in a moment and it's very isolating and lonely straight afterwards. It's a very strange feeling. Definitely. It's sort of swept out from under your feet almost and it's done and dusted and yeah, it's. I think people experience it in everyday life with different things. You know, a wedding, you know anything that's a big feature, can be weird afterwards because it's suddenly done and gone and it's like, okay, and everyone else has moved on with their lives and you're kind of still like, yeah, but what, that's only just happened!

Sue Anstiss  12:41

Yeah it's good, I think it's important. at least we're talking about it. I feel like we're discussing it more now, and that's a key part, I guess, for other athletes who are in that process now hearing that too. But you did go on, as you say, to compete in Rio in 2016, and you know what an experience it must have been then to finally be on the podium and hear the national anthem. So how was that experience for you in terms of the gold after the silver? 

Hannah Mills 13:05

Yeah, it was just unreal. I think the first Olympics is almost easier, in a way, because there's you know, you have your own expectation and obviously people have expectations of you, but there's nothing to kind of judge you against because you've never done it before. So, yeah, the second games definitely felt more you know we've got a lot to lose here. Nothing but gold is good enough, really, because we've won a silver medal, and so, you know, putting your ego on the line, putting everything on the line, is really really hard thing to do. But we had the most extraordinary journey actually in the build-up to Rio as a sailing team. You spend a lot of time in the Olympic venue because you have to get to learn the water, the tides, you know, the wind bends, everything that goes with it. So we spent probably 180 days in total in the two years building up to Rio, training there, and yeah, it was an unbelievable place With many ups and downs for us. We got mugged actually in 2014. And that kind of took a bit of time for us to build confidence again in just being in the venue and I was like God, we're going to have to perform in this place that I'm just struggling to kind of feel comfortable in. So some of those kinds of challenges were very different to London, but as a Games it was, it was a lot less Olympic-y, I would say, in how it felt. You know, you felt very conscious that there was this big kind of divide of rich and poor in the city and, you know, just felt uncomfortable that we were there competing at an Olympics but there was also, you know, a lot of poverty around and so it was a bit of a funny one. But obviously, as an athlete, you kind of have to try and put all that out of your mind and just focus on doing the job at hand. And the week was a bit of a blur, to be honest, it always is, it goes so fast. But to come out at the end, I remember just that feeling of we'd like we finished the final race and we knew we'd won gold and just like so much stress and relief just felt like it poured out of me in that one moment and my mum was out there to watch, which was just the most amazing thing to come in and see her straight away. Just yeah, relief is probably my biggest takeaway from that feeling. 

Sue Anstiss  15:30

So more tears, but tears of a different kind. 

Hannah Mills Yeah totally. 

Sue Anstiss  And then on to Tokyo, and obviously there's a strange Olympics for many people in terms of the delay for COVID, and you had a new partner then with Ailie Macintyre too. So what have driven you on to compete in another games? Because it's almost like you look at your career not that you should retire after gold, but you'd almost reached the very top of the sport. So what was it that encouraged you to go forward? Or did you automatically feel you would go on to another games after Rio? 

Hannah Mills 16:04

No, definitely not. I mean Sass retired after Rio, which was obviously a big deal.  We had such an amazing partnership and so I thought probably I would retire. But in that Rio cycle I'd become really aware of the plastic pollution crisis. Actually, it was becoming more and more obvious. Everywhere we sailed, and particularly in Rio, due to the topography and other factors, there was so much plastic waste in the waters we were sailing in and it definitely ignited something within me. At that point I was like, oh my god, we have to do something about this. 

After a while I came to the conclusion that actually, if I carry on trying to win an Olympic gold medal, this gives me quite a good platform to try and raise awareness and to try and ignite change when it comes to the plastic consumption, particularly single-use plastic, and it felt like something I had quite a lot of control of in my own life that I could make a change and so actually maybe I can inspire other people to do the same. So it kind of the two came hand in hand. I felt like I had more to give in the Olympic arena. I was excited by the challenge of sailing with someone new and trying to build a new partnership. But then I was also excited by the possibility of trying to make a difference environmentally as well, and so, that was, I guess, the main driving force. 

Sue Anstiss  17:34

And how different is it with a new, completely new partner, because I guess she must have known Saskia so well, having, you know, had that two cycles with her too, as a kind of a layperson that hasn't been in that type of partnership, hit a boat with somebody. But how important is that to absolutely get that right. 

Hannah Mills 17:51

Yeah, it's everything. It's so intense. A sailing partnership. You know you're literally like a married couple in many respects that you live in each other's pockets day in, day out. You know each other inside and out because you have to have the most honest conversations imaginable to try and get the best from each other and to understand each other when things aren't going so well. So, yeah, it's a real privilege and a real challenge to do that with somebody. So, yeah, the thought of doing it again with Ailey was motivating and exciting, also really daunting, and I was also really conscious that Ailey wasn't Sask and so we couldn't just copy and paste what it worked for Sask and I, because that was not going to work for Ailey and I, because you know, I was a different person in myself and she was definitely a different person to Sask. So, yeah, just so much learning, so much learning. 

Sue Anstiss  18:45

And how did it feel then? Obviously another goal and then to become the most successful female sailor in Olympic history. When you think back to that little girl, seven going up in the water, but kind of what your reflections from that, and then again also having that profile, then the message for kind of driving change in terms of its kind of social impact. 

Hannah Mills 19:07

Yeah, it's so bizarre when you because each Olympic cycle is so individual, like it always takes something very different to win each Olympic games in, particularly in sailing, because of the venue. You know, the venue is always different, so the wind is always different and so the some of the skills you have you need might be different, so they always seem very individual. And the challenge. So when you put it all together at the end and you've won two silver, two golds in the silver and you have this title of the most successful female in picture, yes, it's kind of crazy and definitely not something I the out to do, but was, yeah, obviously very cool. 

19:45

I definitely added a little bit extra pressure for the Tokyo Games, knowing that was a possibility, but at that point there's so much pressure anyway it's sort of all just bundled into one big pressure cooker of trying to perform under that huge weight of expectation. But, yeah, like genuinely for that Tokyo, tokyo Olympics. For me it was when it was really really hard and things weren't going well or you know, I was struggling with whatever challenge we were facing. It would always come back to the fact that if we won, I would have a bigger platform to talk about these other things that I really, really cared about and that that, for me, was so much motivation to really push through. 

Sue Anstiss  20:31

And was there ever a consideration that you might have continued on to the next game? So were you? You done, then. 

Hannah Mills 20:38

Yeah, I was done in many respects very hard to stop the Olympic Games, because it is honestly amazing, but it is also it takes absolutely everything from you and and especially, to stand on the podium. It's, yeah, it's all consuming what you have to give to it, which, yeah, it's, as you get older can can get harder with other things in life that you maybe want to do and think about. So, yeah, I was always pretty confident I was done and I definitely started planning my, my next steps of career around sustainability and sport and Howard maneuver and into that. And at the same time, this unique, incredible opportunity came along in the way of cell GP, which is what the time was quite a new global sailing league that was kind of taking sailing by storm and it was all dominated by by men sailing these 50 foot foiling cat and rounds that go like 100 kilometers an hour tops be like. They're just ridiculously amazing boats and I was just watching on in awe of these boats and thinking, oh my god, that looks absolutely amazing. 

21:51

And then, just before Tokyo, they launched a women's pathway program to try and get females into into the, into the league and I just jumped at the chance and tried out on the British team and I called up I mean, but okay, I'll get back to you after this is done. So yeah, so that that came became an option and for me so GP was the ultimate kind of career move because meant I carry on my athletic sailing career in a totally different environment In terms of the boats we were sailing, the skills I'd need, but also everything about surgery from the outset had been set up around purpose and sustainability and impact, and so, yeah, it felt like the perfect job rolled into one that's brilliant here, isn't it? 

Sue Anstiss  22:51

and I guess getting that call on the couple of days before you went through Olympic gold, but at least in you know, going into it, you kind of knew that you had an outcome at the end of it, that you had something to go to onto. 

Hannah Mills 23:04

Yeah, that's true, that is true, I can. I just can't even think about it at that point in time. It was just like, oh, that's for later. 

Sue Anstiss  23:13

And you took that fantastic role and then you felt pregnant. So what was the response like to can you're a new employer, as it were? Your new role? How did they respond to that news? 

Hannah Mills 23:34

I wanted a baby at some point, but you know, as a woman, obviously time is of the essence to a degree and there's a little sort of uncertainty around if and when and how. So, after Tokyo just felt like we should just crack on and try and, yeah, I felt pregnant really quickly and so I had to tell the team, which felt really nerve wracking, to be honest, because no one had had a baby, and so GP, as an athlete, prior to that. So, yeah, when I went up to Ben's house actually to deliver the bombshell and it was amazing, to be honest, it was just okay tell us what you need will make it happen and the spot will be ready for you when, when you're ready to come back and just like, the relief I felt in that moment was massive and it was great. You know, we made this plan where you still come to the events early on in the pregnancy and I'd help coach on the water with our coach, rob Wilton, but then I'd also take a lead in a lot of the sustainability stuff off the water and the projects we were doing through that, and so GP itself, the league, which is phenomenal in facilitating all of that as well, and I became their global purpose ambassador. 

24:55

So I did lots of work with them and it just I just made me think God, like if we can do this in elite professional sport everywhere, should be able to do this. Like it's a really challenging environment to facilitate somebody who's trying to have a baby, and it was done so so well. And I just thought, god, if people value their female that are trying to have babies and yeah, I don't know, just just make me think like if you really respect and value someone, you'll make it work. And they did. And yeah, I feel very, very lucky and actually we've now had two more babies in in. So GP athletes. So, yeah, it's it's really cool to see kind of people gaining the confidence to crack on and do all of the things they want to do and make it work. 

Sue Anstiss  25:45

So good, so good to hear, isn't it? It's interesting, isn't you? Look at UK sport updating its pregnancy guidance on the world athletes in the world class program. It's only in 2021. When you look back now, if things have been different, do you think you might have contemplated taking a break for a family in those Olympic cycles, or would that have been unlikely? 

Hannah Mills 26:06

Possibly. Yeah, it just never felt like whilst I was Olympic campaign never really felt like an option to me. It's really hard to stay, to be honest with you. I think, yeah, it's really really hard to say, but I think it's exactly the right step and, you know, obviously came maybe too long, but it's there and I think, yeah, it's really so important. It really is Like Olympics cycle is usually four years. Obviously, this one's been a bit weird and been three years, but usually four years. And so for me, you know, there is definitely time for female athletes to have a baby and start a family and come back to the sport they love and deliver performances, and we've seen it from many athletes, whether it's Olympics or outside the Olympics. So, yeah, the precedent set, which is great. 

Sue Anstiss  26:58

I've been really lucky recently to talk to quite a few female athletes who are sharing stories of motherhood and elite sport, and we're filming with them Abby Ward down at Bristol at the moment, who's hopefully coming back soon to play professional rugby, having had a baby this summer and it's been really interesting Some of the pieces around that feeling of pregnancy and how you identify as an athlete through that process and then coming back as an athlete as a you know, with having had a baby too. So how did you cope with all of that the physical and the mental side too? 

Hannah Mills 27:30

Yeah, it's really hard, to be honest, and I think for any woman having a baby it's very hard, because you do lose your identity, whether you're an athlete or whatever. You know, career choice you might have or life choice you might have. You for those months you can't necessarily do all the things you could do before and you can't be the same person. You're growing a tiny human inside of you and that takes a lot and, yeah, definitely for me I found it pretty challenging mentally during the pregnancy and actually afterwards. 

28:13

I was really lucky that I just it kind of felt like, once the end of it had been born, I kind of felt like, okay, now's my journey to obviously being a mum, but also finding my way back to being an athlete, and that was, you know, that was my journey. I know other people have different experiences, but yeah, it was. There is a big identity piece for sure. That's that can be really really difficult to navigate, but that's for me. That's why I feel incredibly lucky with with SOGP and the British SOGP team and the support I had around, still being involved and still feeling like I was a part of the team for most of my pregnancy. 

Sue Anstiss  28:56

And how soon after the birth of Sienna were you back on the water. 

Hannah Mills 29:02

I was back on the water. My first day on the water was the first of January, which was like two and a half months after Sienna was born. And then that was just locally, in Poole Harbour, just on the water, cruising around on something called a wing foil, which is kind of a vaguely new sport, but it's a lot of fun. So if you've not checked that out, check it out. It's great. 

Sue Anstiss  29:25

It's like a windsurfing. Is that a windsurfing foil? 

Hannah Mills 29:29

It's a little foil on, kind of like almost a surfboard, and you hold this tiny little wing, this blow up. Yeah, it's unbelievable, it's very cool. 

Sue Anstiss  29:36

I've seen that as a Bray Lake. I walk by past Bray Lake and I always think it looks like they're flying. It's like the most amazing sport. 

Hannah Mills 29:45

It is. It's unbelievable. And so I was really keen to do that before I went and sailed again with SoGP, because there's a lot of core work and stability and just that gave me the confidence. Then I was going to Singapore a few weeks later for the first SoGP event back, but I was obviously incredibly nervous because you can't there's no practice on SoGP you can't just go for a sail in these boats called the F50. Like they're just unbelievable machines. 

30:15

So, yeah, I was really nervous, but again, the team on SoGP just facilitated everything that they bought. We bought a second female athlete out, hannah Diamond, who was there to help me and but also, like if I needed a break during the training, she could jump on board and do my role there, and the same like if I didn't feel ready to race, ham was going to step in and do it, and so there was lots of things like that put in place that just gave me the confidence to go and bring Sienna, bring Nick, my fiance, and just see if it could work. And it did. It was amazing. And so, yeah, that was that was it. 

Sue Anstiss  30:51

Then back in full swing after that I saw a really beautiful video that you shared about. You're talking about the freedom you feel out on that water you know, to be back as yourself almost, and then coming back to lands and back into that mother role, with Sienna too. So do you feel you're getting that balance right? Does it feel like a thing to celebrate? It looks like it is from the outside in. 

Hannah Mills 31:13

Yeah, it really was. You know I was so nervous about leaving her for the five hours or whatever that I was going to be on the water. You know, she was three months old and I was still feeding breastfeeding and yeah, I was really nervous. But you know what you just like I got, I went on the water and it's weird to say, but you forget, you know, you forget you're a mum in that moment, you're just doing your job as an athlete. It was so freeing and just made me feel so I don't know, just gave me so much energy. And then to come in and know that she was going to be there waiting for me and yeah, it was honestly just the most amazing, amazing feeling Feeding her and then around. That was just an absolute logistical challenge. But yeah, again, we did all the things we needed to to make that possible and yeah, it was such a I'll never forget that. That trip to Singapore, that first trip away. 

Sue Anstiss  32:11

I spoke to Caroline Wozniaki for the podcast recently and she talked about the support that's needed to travel on a global tennis circuit with very young children too, and her husband and the role that he's taken to and you've mentioned Nick there as well. So how has it been sort of juggling that as a family to be able to keep competing with LGP? 

Hannah Mills 32:33

Yeah, it is. I'm not going to, definitely not going to try and sugarcoat it. It's a lot of planning, but we were really fortunate that Nick Nick decided to step back from his job. He had almost his dream job, probably coaching the British Olympic windsurf team, and we got to January 2023, this year, and we would go into Singapore and things just starting to ramp up for me and it just we put the calendar together and it was just like this is not the life that we want. We want to be able to do things as a family, especially in these early years. So, yeah, he stepped back and which allowed me to continue doing what I wanted to do, which, yeah, it's just a way of the way we decided we wanted to do it and it's made it all possible Because, for me, leaving Sienna is, I find, very, very difficult. I do, obviously go away and at times they don't come, but a lot of the time they do, and for me that definitely makes it possible to do what I'm doing. 

Sue Anstiss  33:40

It's interesting as well that that's that piece about partnership business. That's what it's Lizzie Dagon, too, about, and her husband coming on tour. But I think it's being honest and open about the fact that raising a family is. You know, it's a partnership together, isn't it? You can't just kind of go off and do it on your own and both have your in some cases both have your own careers. It is something about coordinating that together 100%, and that's that for me. 

Hannah Mills 34:04

that's where the communication comes in, and, you know, just being really honest about everything and putting everything down and and then making a plan together so that everyone kind of feels like there's a bit of give and take. You know, whatever works for you. 

Sue Anstiss  34:19

I spoke to the wonderful Fremorgan on the podcast who's director of purpose for CellGP, and she really enlightened me a lot about CellGP. So I suggest Lizzie go back and find her episode, series 11, I think it was. But she also talked about really openly about the challenges of getting women into a sport, which you kind of alluded to at the beginning. There, in terms of that female ethnic pathway, it just feels like almost when I look at Olympic sport it feels like it is fairly gender equal, the Olympic pathway and so on. But that isn't the same for other forms. It does feel like it's very it's been very male dominated. So is that changing? You're obviously part of that change. Do you feel kind of positive about how that is changing? 

Hannah Mills 35:01

Yes, I mean it is changing 100%. The women's pathway programme with cell GP is obviously a big part of that and there's lots of different sort of initiatives coming in throughout our sport to try and facilitate female athletes within sailing. But it's, you know, it's slow, it's never feels quite like enough being done. I think sailing, such a unique sport, and particularly with cell GP and the types of boats we're sailing now, these really high performance, foiling, fast boats you might think, needs, you know, the top athletic, physical people to be sailing them and you do need a certain element of athleticism. But actually a lot of the roles on the boat you don't at all. You know driver, the wing trimmer who's trimming the big sail and the flight controller who's literally flying a boat like a lot of those roles aren't physical particularly and so any you know male or female athlete could do those roles. 

36:07

So we are where we are in terms of experience and opportunity for the guys. You know these types of boats came in 10-12 years ago with the America's Cup, which was dominated by by the male sailors at that point in time. So their jump and experience is massive. You know it's 10-12 years to try and catch up. So the challenge is pretty big but with things like the women's pathway program and other things that are going on in the sport, there is slowly these opportunities coming and I feel like we're at tipping point within the sport where, if we can really start to push the envelope with, with the roles and responsibilities we're giving the female athletes, like the next generation, then they're just they're it's going to be. Doesn't matter who you are, are you right for for the role, and I think it'll be a very different story, which is really exciting to kind of be a part of that challenging the envelope and pushing the envelope. 

Sue Anstiss  37:04

I was. I really like I spoke to Tracy Edwards on the podcast too and I think, yeah, she's extraordinary, isn't she? And I think that she was so open about that inherent sexism that she's seen and experience and and so you know it's fantastic that things are changing. Do you think that the performance on the boat feels different when you've got a balance of gender there? Is it make a difference to the performance too? 

Hannah Mills 37:26

I'm such a believer that having you know, men and women in a team, whatever that team, is such a positive. It just creates a completely different environment. And even in our team I look at like when it's just me as the only female athlete which which we don't have anymore, but you know, to start with that was sometimes the case and five or six guy athletes all sat around the table with the coach, who's also a guy, like the, the dynamic was very different to when we have two female athletes and that makeup like it's such a different scenario and actually everyone is a bit more relaxed, a bit more open, a bit less ego, possibly on the table sometimes to have the conversations to help the performance of the team. I like I really have noticed that and so for me that's only a positive and it's been really interesting to kind of see that shift between one female, two females and just trying to get that balance, I guess, within the team and how that changes changes the dynamic. It's really really interesting. 

Sue Anstiss  38:31

That's fascinating, isn't it? And I'd like to close, if I can, just talk a little bit more about your work on sustainability and and you've talked a lot about that having that profile, then utilizing that profile to drive change, and clearly that's continued on with all the work that sales you do around the impact league and so on. So is that something you're still very much involved with now? Obviously, you've got quite a lot on your plate, haven't you at the moment, but in terms of competing and you know, and motherhood I mean part of the family too, as well as that element of driving change. 

Hannah Mills 39:04

Yeah, it is. I mean, like you said, there's a lot going on. I'm lucky that with Sergio P, it's kind of inbuilt. And so you mentioned the impact league, like, definitely go and listen to Feeds podcast, because you're all about it and the impact league is so innovative and it's where all sport and probably all business needs to start. Going is around the impact and maybe making a competition out of it. 

39:26

But yeah, for me it's more critical than ever, especially, I think, having Sienna and just seeing visually the next generation coming through in my, in my own life, I just think, my god, there's so much we need to try and do, particularly when it comes to the climate crisis, and I work. 

39:45

I co-founded an organization, athletes of the world, after Tokyo with a fellow athlete, melissa Wilson, which is all around athletes, using their voice and educating athletes to understand the climate crisis and to feel confident in talking about it publicly or with their sponsors or whatever it is, to try and push for change within their sport or within their fan base or within their sponsors you know, whoever their kind of sphere of influence is. It's all about trying to trying to capitalize on the power of the athlete and the power of sport to make change when it comes to the climate crisis. So, yeah, that's been, that's been an amazing project to be a part of and yeah, I guess you know I find I get so much motivation out of doing things outside of just my sailing, I guess, to try and make a difference in my own small way, and I think that's all all any of us can try and do really. 

Sue Anstiss  40:44

It was great to talk to Hannah. Do go back and find previous episodes of the podcasts that I mentioned, including Fee Morgan, caroline Wasniaki and Tracy Edwards, if you enjoyed the podcast. There are over 160 episodes featuring conversations with women's sport trailblazers and they're all free to listen to on podcast platforms or on our website at fearlesswomencouk. My previous  s have included elite athletes, broadcasters, coaches, administrators, scientists and CEOs from a vast range of sports. The whole of my book game on the unstoppable rise of women's sport is also free to listen to on the podcast. 

41:26

Every episode of series 13 is me reading a chapter of the book. Thank you once again to Sport England for backing the game changes to a national lottery award and to Sam Walker at what Goes On Media, who does such a great job as our executive producer. Thank you also to my brilliant colleague at fearlesswomen, kate Hannon. Do follow us now so you don't miss out on future episodes and, if you have a moment, to leave a lovely five star rating or review. It would be great, as it really does help us to meet new audiences. Come and say hello on social media, where you'll find me, on LinkedIn and Instagram at Sue and Stis. The game changes fearless women in sport.