Laura Woods: Blazing a trail in sports broadcasting

It’s little wonder that broadcaster Laura Woods is so admired by men and women alike - her warmth, humour and humility are all on full display in this delightful interview for The Game Changers podcast. 

We’re re-releasing it today to ensure that Laura’s wise words and authenticity reach an even bigger audience. 

Twice voted the SJA Sports Presenter of the Year, Laura openly shares her journey to the high profile roles she holds today as host of talkSPORT’S flagship Sports Breakfast Show and presenter for ITV Football, DAZN Boxing and NFL UK.

Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast through a National Lottery grant.

Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.

Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers

Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media

A Fearless Women production

Transcript

Sue Anstiss (6s):
Hello, and welcome to The Game Changers. I'm Sue Anstiss, and this is the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazing women in sport, who are literally knocking down barriers and challenging the status quo for women and girls everywhere.

Barclays (21s):
A massive thank you to Barclays for once again, sponsoring this series of The Game Changers. Few brands have done more for women's sport. Barclays are the title sponsor of the Women's Super League, and they're also backing the FA in the fantastic work it does, to ensure that every school girl across the country will have a chance to play football by 2024.

Sue Anstiss (44s):
My guest today is Laura Woods. Recently voted the SJA Sports Presenter of the Year, Laura is a regular on Sky Sports and is also host of talkSPORTS, flagship sports breakfast, one of the most listened to shows in the UK. Laura talks very openly about her journey from joining Sky Sports, in 2009, and working as a runner, working her way up the broadcasting ladder, in production, before moving in front of the camera at Sky. She's gone on to have an extraordinary career, working on some of the country's biggest sport shows. She's much admired for her relaxed, outgoing nature and her unflappable personality, making her one of the most in demand sports presenters, right now.

Sue Anstiss (1m 28s):
I began by asking Laura about her recent award as Sports Presenter of The Year. Was it a shock to win?

Laura Woods (1m 36s):
It was a shock. Yeah, because I think everyone wants to think that they're in there for, you know, there's a potential to win it. And I did think, I thought, well, I'm in there. So I've got a shot sort of thing, but I did look at the other people in the category and I thought, "Oh my goodness. They've, you know, they are really big presenters and really established presenters. So I kind of, I thought it'd be nice, but don't go over excited. And then when the ceremony actually started, we were all on Zoom. So me and everyone from talkSPORT, all had a little Zoom set up in one window, and then in the other window, it was the link to watch the awards live. And the first award that they gave, they did a prerecorded interview for.

Laura Woods (2m 17s):
So me and Sam motivates with texting each other. We were like, oh, they've already interviewed the winners. So we definitely haven't won, cause he was in category for commentator too. And then as it went on, there was one that wasn't interviewed. And I was like, oh, hang on a minute because my family would text me, go and we're watching as well. And I said, don't bother, they've already interviewed the winners. And then I think when it happened, I was really shocked and everyone else was, because I'd sort of said, no, I won't win because they've already done it.

Sue Anstiss (2m 43s):
There's a massive outpouring of love, especially on social media, in terms of messages and tweets and so on too. And previous women that have won that award include the likes of Alice Mitchell and Ellie Oldroyd and Claire Balding. So how did it feel to hear your name in a sentence with those trailblazers?

Laura Woods (3m 0s):
It doesn't feel right. Honestly, it doesn't feel right because I, cause I feel like what I'm doing, feels very separate to what they've done, to what they've achieved, because we talk a lot about paving the way for female journalists, especially in sport. And I feel like I'm just following on. I've always felt like that. I felt like it was harder for the likes of those women to actually pave the way, because the world was so much more unaccepting to females than it is now. So I feel like it's actually them that had done a lot of the hard work and I'm just sort of benefiting, because I feel like they've massively opened the door for us. It's still difficult, you know, it's still different, but yeah, to be named alongside them is very strange for me.

Laura Woods (3m 45s):
It feels like they're giants then. And then it's like... [Inaudible]

Sue Anstiss (3m 51s):
Were there women that you saw doing your job on TV and radio as you were growing up as a girl?

Laura Woods (3m 55s):
Yeah. Claire was actually one of them. And so was Gabby. I've talked about Gabby before, because I remember seeing Gabby and for me it was never that she was a woman. I just didn't, I don't think when you're younger, you have that kind of perception of a man being able to do something and a woman not, because you've just seen them do it. So it doesn't stick in your brain that it's more difficult for them or they've had to overcome certain things to get there. And so I never really saw it like that. And I used to watch A Question of Sport all the time, which is why it's funny now that I work with Ally, because you know, there's a great mix of men and women on that program. So it's weird, I think it's when you are old enough to really understand what sexism is, that's when you start noticing it.

Sue Anstiss (4m 38s):
Yeah.

Laura Woods (4m 38s):
So for me, when I was younger, it was those women, they were the women that were there and I liked them just because they were brilliant presenters, not necessarily because they were women.

Sue Anstiss (4m 46s):
And who were your other role models growing up? Who inspired you?

Laura Woods (4m 50s):
For me, it's much more closer to home. So you can have those people that are on screen that you look at and think, wow, they're amazing. But my mum was always, now I look back at it, I can really, I can see it much more clearly, but she was like my hero when I was younger. My parents separated when I was about three, and she had three babies. So we are, there's three of us, me and my two older brothers that are all within four years of each other. And my mom was young. She was really young when she had us all. So she had my big brother probably when she was 20. So when they broke up, she had this job to bring up these three little kids that were all the same age, and it was really hard for her really. And then, though her way of integrating us and keeping us all together and keeping us happy and safe was taking us to the rugby club and taking us to afterschool sports clubs and things like that.

Laura Woods (5m 40s):
And the rugby club for us became this massive community. And it was where all of our friends were and she became a coach. So she was a coach as well. So my brothers were each playing in different age groups and I was paying at my one and I was the only girl. And I could recognize that. I knew that. And I knew it was like a thing for other people, but it wasn't a thing for me. And it, especially, wasn't a thing for me because my mom was one of the coaches. So you can, you know, the noise is there, but it was never negative, really. It was really positive. It was like, wow, there's a girl on the team. And wow, there's a woman coaching that team. And my mom's team was the best one as well, by far. They won everything. They were in the age group below me. And I was like, mom, like, why aren't you, can't you come and do my age group?

Laura Woods (6m 23s):
But she was like, no, no, no. She liked to keep everything separate. I think so. Yeah, she was amazing.

Sue Anstiss (6m 28s):
Excellent. I think, do you think seeing her so comfortable in that man's world had that impact on you then, in terms of normalizing it, really?

Laura Woods (6m 37s):
Yeah, a hundred percent. She was so comfortable. And then when I ask her now, what's funny is when she talks about when she was younger, being really shy, like painfully shy. And then I think she kind of went through a lot of trauma in her life. And then her release was probably that rugby club as well. And it just gave her all this amazing confidence because we talk about, now, we say how men can strip away confidence, but they can also give it to you and really build you up. And I think because she was so good at this job and her character is huge, you know, she's very charismatic. She's full of personality. And I think that really made her come into her own and she found a community that was hers.

Laura Woods (7m 19s):
Nobody else's. It wasn't her parents. It wasn't her husbands. It was a community that she had forged her way into and was accepted in. I think that just gave her this lease of life where she was just so comfortable. So I saw her around men and, and I saw her around women. And she was comfortable in everybody's company. So I think that's where I've learned that from. And, obviously, I have big brothers, so for me, that sort of environment, isn't very alien.

Sue Anstiss (7m 45s):
Yeah. I've got three older brothers and I certainly think you just kind of grow up with it, really. In terms of... Yeah. I joked with, I said to Kelly Cates for this podcast and she, we don't, [inaudible] a mathematician, if you follow her kind of history, because she studied that at university, but was it always sport for you? Was school always the kind of target?

Laura Woods (8m 6s):
Yeah. So for awhile when I was younger, I suppose, you're put into brackets at school, aren't you? So you're either booksmart, or you're either sporty. You either this, you're either that. You're girly, that sort of thing. And I was always put into that bracket of being sporty and I didn't mind that. I enjoyed it. Cause that was what I knew and that was what I enjoyed. And then as I grew older, I really wanted to be a vet, when I was little. So, because I think you don't really know, do you? You've got no idea. People say to you, when you're young, what do you want to be? And I'm like, well, I like animals. So I'll be a vet. And then when I started doing science in secondary school, I realized I wasn't top of the class at science. I was top of the class in English, but I wasn't at science. And I sort of sat there thinking, right. And then a teacher had a really harsh word with me.

Laura Woods (8m 49s):
And she said, cause I was so disruptive at school. And she said, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I said, I want to be a vet. And she went, well, you know that you need all your sciences. You need to be very good at them and you're not. And I was like, okay. So instead of knuckling down in science, which is what she wanted me to do, I just decided to find something else that I was good at. You know, that was my way of fixing things. And I loved English and I loved it for a really long time. And I remember watching, do you remember, Press Packer and Newsround? So you had Press Packer if you wanted to. So you'd send in a letter and explain why you'd want to be a press packer. And I remember sending one in and I never heard anything back. And when you're younger, you just assume, it's like when you enter a competition in Live & Kicking.

Laura Woods (9m 30s):
So I used to watch Live & Kicking for however many hours it was on. And when there was a competition, when my mum would go out the room, I'd call the number. And I think that just because I called that number, I'm definitely gonna win and I never won. I never won anything. And I was never invited back to be a Press Packer or anything like that. So those kind of little knocks were like really hard to take when you're little. And now you're like, well, I want to be a Press Packer. So that was always in my mind, but it took a long time to kind of connect the two together. And I think I was doing college well, six form, really? And I was doing English there. And again, it was always, my English teacher was probably, she was probably another one of my role models, but it was a real love-hate relationship, you know, for a really long time. She was my English teacher from way back when I think I was in year nine.

Laura Woods (10m 14s):
And I had a lot of issues when I was about that age and I just wasn't into school. I didn't want to be there. I felt really, I just felt like I dreaded it. I dreaded going in. I refused to do the homework. I used to be able to hide things really well from my family. I think when there's three kids to worry about, it's quite difficult for your mom to kind of hone in on you specifically. And one of my brothers, my middle brother, Lukey, he had quite a really strange illness, but it took a lot of my mom's attention. So I just kind of rebelled and I just went one way completely. And my English teacher, Mrs. Borough, was so hard on me, you know, for good reason. I'd walk in with earrings in and she'd say, why are you wearing hoop earrings?

Laura Woods (10m 54s):
And I'd say, well, I like them and she'd say leave them here and you can have them back next week and roll your skirt down. And you haven't done your homework and you're late. And I just felt like she was always on my back. And obviously, because I wasn't doing what I was supposed to be doing. It makes loads of sense now. So she was the one really that, she kept a lot of enthusiasm in me for school. And she really hammered that home. And I loved the English classes. I realized that if I sat down and actually did it, I really enjoyed it. So that was what got me engaged. And then I suppose it wasn't really, until I was at university. I studied print journalism at Kingston University and they didn't have an option for sports journalism. So there was everything else you could think of.

Laura Woods (11m 36s):
Politics, you know, there was all, creating web pages, writing for newspapers, creative writing, all these different things. And I was like, yeah, but what if I want sports journalism? And they said, oh, we don't do that. So the only thing that they did do, which really bugged me, actually, if anything they did do is they had, well, a newspaper that was run by the, what do you call it? By the journalists that were in their actual third year of school. So it's part of the curriculum as you run that newspaper. And you have to cover everything from finding sponsorship, finding the actual news stories, getting it printed or that sort of stuff. And then there was a student union newspaper as well, which anybody could contribute to. So I went to see them and I said, can I just do some sports stuff for you?

Laura Woods (12m 17s):
And they said, yeah, of course. Cause they want the content. So I went off and did football reports and rugby reports of the teams, and they were all our friends. So it was easy and I've still got the cuttings and they are dreadful. They're so funny. It was once every two weeks that it was published. But on the second week, the deadline was right after the game. So one of the reports would be brilliant and really well thought out. And the other one would be dreadful, littered with spelling mistakes or the people's names wrong, you know, just scores were wrong and the boys would go, this is great. But what, like, what were you watching? It was just funny. And then your whole idea would be, get it to print and then go out and get drunk. And that was kind of the way it worked at uni, wasn't it?

Sue Anstiss (12m 58s):
A Wednesday night or Wednesday coverage.

Laura Woods (13m 1s):
Exactly. As the boys are playing on Wednesday, I do the match report and then I'd go out. And that was my job. And then following Wednesday was easy because I had loads of time to do it, but I loved it. And I loved the experience of standing there and I can see myself doing it. I had this pad of paper and a pen. And I'd watch the reports and I know exactly what I was going to write everything down. And I felt like a journalist. I was like, this is great. And it was so exciting. And the boys really loved reading it, even though it was crap. Like they loved reading it because they were like, wow, this is actually, this is our game at uni. And they had a photo of the minute as well. So they felt like, well, not like superstars obviously, but felt like they'd actually done something cool. So that was, I just got this buzz from it. I was like, this is wicked.

Laura Woods (13m 41s):
Like I love it. And it wasn't really, until after I left university, that I thought I could do it professionally. You know, you still don't really think you can kind of do that sort of thing professionally.

Sue Anstiss (13m 51s):
Yeah. I see that, you kind of love that whole being on the side with your notepad and reporting in terms of written word. So what was it, do you think that made the TV presenting so much more attractive to you?

Laura Woods (14m 2s):
I think from watching when I was younger, from watching people in front of the screen. I remember watching Fearne Cotton. She was on this show called Finger Tips. And I remember watching it thinking, well, what makes Fearne so good? And I know now it's just this natural [inaudible] that Fearne has, but also just being completely yourself and comfortable in your own skin. I remember thinking that's great and I didn't know why I liked it, but I really liked it. And I think if I really delve into the sort of psychology of it, I think that for me, being comfortable in my own skin is something that I've never really managed to achieve, especially when I was younger. I was so painfully awkward in certain situations, but then really confident in others.

Laura Woods (14m 43s):
Like when I was playing sport, I knew I was good at it. And I felt really strong. And really no one can judge you in that sense about the way that you look or what you sound like. They're only judging you and your ability on the pitch. And I felt really comfortable and I knew I was better than all the boys and I knew I could run faster. So I loved that environment. It gave me so much strength and acceptance. So then when you kind of think about being, becoming a presenter, I suppose, really, for me, you're clutching at something. You're really clutching to be good and to be accepted and to be as much of you as you can physically be. And then trying to click that and trying to make that happen is something that you just can't make happen overnight.

Laura Woods (15m 28s):
And I went traveling and while I was traveling, I had already done a piece of work experience at Sky Sports. And because I'd met someone, this is a bit of a long-winded story, but I'd met someone when I went to Australia before. He was working at Sky as a runner. And he actually gave me the email address and I just hammered this poor guy with emails, please let me come and do some work experience and I eventually got it. And then it took a really long time of understanding what I wanted to be and thinking, maybe I should just be a producer because my producer has told me I'm good at that. And he's told me that I shouldn't be a presenter. So you do get a lot of that as well. You get a lot of people telling you what they think you should be.

Sue Anstiss (16m 4s):
And why did he, why would he have said that? I mean, you obviously were a great producer on that pathway, but why would he have said he didn't think you could do it?

Laura Woods (16m 12s):
Because his perception of presenters was, it's an ego driven job. So it's ultimately you are feeding your own ego by being a presenter, but he's got it so wrong, because it's almost the opposite. It's almost that you don't have any ego. You're very insecure. And actually what you're doing is trying to feel secure. It's kind of, it's really hard to explain that, but he just believed that. And he believed that I was more than a presenter, because he's never been one, he's a producer. So his idea of what success is, was to be a producer and that person in front of the camera is just a dolly or less than that. But it's so much hard. It's not that at all.

Laura Woods (16m 52s):
And when you walk into somewhere like Sky Sports, I remember the first piece of advice I was given was don't tell anyone you want to be a presenter. And I said, why? Because everyone wants to be a presenter. All the girls that walked through the door want to be a presenter. I said, but what if I do, what if I genuinely do want to be a presenter? And I think I could be good at it. Oh, but your job is to be a runner at the time. And you're essentially telling that person, you don't want to do your job. So I found it really confusing. And it takes a lot inside you to say to that person, no, no, no. I can do it though, because then when they give you the chance and you're crap, but [inaudible] they go, what was that? And you're like, yeah, just give me another chance, because you're never good at it.

Laura Woods (17m 33s):
And you're not good at it for such a long time. And it's really hard.

Sue Anstiss (17m 37s):
How tough was it at that, I guess that point, you remember that point to the first time you're in front of the camera or, you know, the microphone?

Laura Woods (17m 45s):
Really hard because the voice that comes out of you is not your voice. So we sit here and say the best presenters and the most authentic, but trying to become authentic is really hard because you've got this microphone and this camera lens and you know, people are watching. And I remember trying to do a show reel. So someone said to me, right, you know what, a friend of mine, a cameraman, I said, I don't know how to do this. And he said, let's make a show reel together. And then he said, right, we're going to go look, we're going to go to loads of different places. And we're going to film in fields. And we're going to go to what I was working on [inaudible] at the time we're going to go to a Speedway track and do a link in front of a camera. And I was like, how long does the link have to be? And oh my God, it was painful.

Laura Woods (18m 26s):
I could see it on his face. He was so energized. And then he just lost it all. And by the 25th take, he was like, he went, should we just tinker with the words? And I'm like, yeah. Okay. And then [inaudible] somewhere else. It was kind of like three words here, five words there. And yeah. And it was dreadful. I remember driving home thinking this isn't for me. So those early days of trying to be a presenter were just the most painful of my life. And I don't know why I kept doing it. I think what it was is I get a real buzz from other people. So I really liked talking to people and finding out who they are. And I just find humans interesting. And I find the psychology of humans really interesting.

Laura Woods (19m 8s):
So if you look at it like that, whereas a human being is a bit like a Rubik's cube and you're trying to figure out how to open them up and how to get the best out of them. It's really fun when you do. And it's really fulfilling when you get that and you go, oh, like I've asked the right thing or they trust me enough. And I've obviously mastered something in the way that I'm talking to them. That means that they trust me. And I really loved that. And I used to do these interviews with [inaudible] players behind the scenes. So only their answers would be we'd go to air, but it was my job to get those answers. And I used to go back to the truck and cut it together myself. And then that would go out and it was honestly, they used to call them shit quotes. So who's going to do the shit quotes today?

Laura Woods (19m 52s):
Obviously the quotes and the players. And I was like, always like, me. And they were like, yeah, let her do it. Cause no one else wants to bloody do it. No one wants to talk to these darts players and ask the same questions. But I took great pride in it. And I always did. And that was when I was a runner. So I always had that part of my job wherever I went, I felt was working experience for me. That's probably where I think I kept that drive because I thought I want, I love that relationship with someone and that's where I am good. So if I can try and get better at the pieces to camera on my own, then I can link the two together. But I avoided it for as long as I could actually.

Sue Anstiss (20m 29s):
And where was that step away from the shit quotes on to, I guess more when you're in front of the camera and doing that, how did you make that transition from executive producer?

Laura Woods (20m 39s):
There was so much. I did a couple of screen tests with Sky Sports News. Yeah. And it was awful. Oh God, it was awful. I realized, and I don't know why I was so young at the time, so I don't know why I didn't think this through, but I am not, or I wasn't at the time, a very fluid reader. And I actually thought for a really long time, I might be dyslexic. That's how bad I thought, shit, why am I not? Why can't I do this? It's just reading. And I'd watch the other girls practice and they'd be so fluid with it. And I was like, why am I tripping over everything? That's obviously a big thing, if you want to be a presenter...

Sue Anstiss (21m 16s):
They all took you.

Laura Woods (21m 17s):
Bring a sentence together and yeah, they would pick you. Anyway, I couldn't do it. And I did this one screen test. It was dreadful and it really knocked the stuffing out of me for probably about two years, I'd say. It was horrible. I didn't get any feedback. So I decided to go and ask. Knocked on the boss's door. And he said to me, go and look at other presenters on Sky Sports News. See what they do and do that. And I was like, well, no, but like, why stop it? Like, why is everyone saying these things? And it really frustrated me. Yeah. The whole reading thing, I just kind of thought, well, I'm, you know what, I'm going to avoid it altogether, then. I'm going to find a way around this. So I'm a presenter that doesn't use autocue because I spoke to a few people and they said, everyone does it.

Laura Woods (21m 58s):
Like some people don't they feel comfortable without it. So I was like, right, I'll be that presenter then. So I just kept cracking. I kept trying to get bits and scraps from different places. I did a little bit of NFL. I emailed everyone at Sky really. I mean, I emailed all of the producers that I knew from running and working on different shows and just said, do you have any opportunities? Is there anything small I can do? Prerecorded things, if you don't trust me to do it live? And I ended up getting a pitch side gig at the NFL, two or three times a year, but it was amazing. And then I started doing bits outside of Sky with matching sport. They just gave me a few golf things and that was memorizing lines and delivering them. And I was dread, I don't know. I think it helped a lot, but that we are all friends, because if we weren't, they would have sacked me much sooner.

Laura Woods (22m 44s):
And then really what it was with my boss is I said to him, look, can I use one of the spare cameras? I'm just going to go and interview the players because they have much bigger personalities than we ever give them credit for, because the post-match interviews are just in and out. How do you feel? Blah, blah, blah. Done. But they're so funny and they've got real quirky personalities. So he was like, fine. You know, go ahead. And I just used to interview them with silly questions. I'd ask them some serious ones, it was about the Premier League at the time - Premiere League Darts. I'd ask them some serious ones and then I'd follow them up with silly quizzes that related to their nicknames so that there was one called Andy Hamilton and his nickname was "The Hammer". So I always remember, I gave him a quiz on hammers and he knew them all because he was like, yeah, that's great.

Laura Woods (23m 28s):
And one of the answers [inaudible] and you know, there's just some really silly things in there. And I cut it altogether. I'd script it. And I do a voiceover for it. Put some music on and then stick it out on YouTube. And I didn't have the confidence to do pieces to camera. I still try to avoid those. So stacked them on YouTube. And then that led to other things basically, and that just rolled on. And there were a million other little side bits and jobs and stuff that eventually led to kind of a proper job as a presenter. And that was on the Soccer AM online.

Sue Anstiss (23m 59s):
And have things ever not gone to plan in terms of your career path? You've got to look at that trajectory, but are there things where you've lost out on things or?

Laura Woods (24m 8s):
Yeah, I lost that job, the [inaudible], the sorry, the golf one I was telling you about. I actually lost out on that to another girl. And they said that she was cheaper, because what they did halfway through was they said, we're gonna drop your rate. And I said, you can't drop my rate. You've agreed to these dates. I said, that's really unfair. And there was a lot of pride in me that just, so I can't allow this to happen.

Sue Anstiss (24m 34s):
Yeah.

Laura Woods (24m 35s):
But then for the next season, they said they found someone else who was cheaper, but I think she was just better. And I watched her and she was miles better than me. And I understood why. And I thought, oh God, like, how do I process that feeling of like rejection? And then knowing that it's because you're not good enough. And I did struggle with that, actually. I struggled with it for a long time. And I went to see this woman who was really, she is a classically trained musician. So she's a harpist and her ideas in training herself, classically and being the best of the best, translate to other performance-based jobs. So she essentially is a performance coach.

Laura Woods (25m 16s):
And I met her because I knew someone in the world of sport that used her for sport, but she was so unlikely. She was tiny. Her name's Fiona, really parched. And I walked through the doors looking up and down. And I remember thinking she's shaking her head at me. And she doesn't like what I'm wearing. She doesn't like the way I'm speaking. And she didn't like the way I was speaking. And she said, why do you, you're coming off on the end of your sentences. And you're not being, you're not saying the words properly. You're not pronounciating your vowels and your whatevers and all these different things. Anyway, worked with her for a little while. And she said, why what's the struggle at the moment? And I said, I can't remember my lines. I'm really struggling to remember my lines.

Laura Woods (25m 56s):
And she went, right. Okay. So your eyes aren't turned on. Your ears aren't turned on. The two sides of your brain aren't connected. And she taught me to do this thing called [inaudible], where your right hand goes to your left knee. And then your left hand goes to your right knee. She said, do it for me. And my right hand went to my right knee, immediately. She went, see, that's because you're one sided. You need to cross over. Even your brain isn't doing what you tell it to. So we used to do all these really weird exercises. So before a show, I would practice those exercises that she taught me, [inaudible], like this, doing this sort of stuff, holding a pen in my hand and then doing a figure of eight. So that would open my eyes up and make my eyes connected with my brain.

Laura Woods (26m 36s):
Rolling me outside of my ears, like this. Pulling the buttons down, there was a big process, a big sort of thing, and had it all written down. And I learned off by heart and it worked. And I have no idea why it worked, but it did. And I actually went to her and I said, I've lost that job. And someone else has got it. And she went right, find me her. So I Googled her on the internet. I found her on Showroom and she said, right. And she said, that girl does her, very well, but she can't do you. And you can't do her. And I thought, right. Okay. She said, so all you can do is be the best of you. So let's make the best of you. And it stuck with me and I thought, God, she's so right. And that's every time I think about comparing myself, I think about that because there's just no point.

Laura Woods (27m 20s):
There's no point in looking at someone else and going, could I do that really well, because yeah, they do, but they won't do what you do really well. So that was a big kind of step forward in accepting rejection, which I think is, comes with being [inaudible], a lot.

Sue Anstiss (27m 35s):
Huge. I want Fiona's details. She sounds absolutely fascinating.

Laura Woods (27m 38s):
I will send it. Honestly, she would be great to speak to, just amazing. She's really, really amazing.

Sue Anstiss (27m 46s):
You mentioned you covered a lot of sport in those early years, as some of the less mainstream sports, I think like ten-pin bowling and table tennis. So how would you learn to present sports well, that you don't know or that other people don't know well?

Laura Woods (27m 60s):
It's really hard actually, because when you're trying to get opportunity, the easiest thing for someone to do would be to give you an opportunity in something that, you know, so that would be great. But when you're trying to get those opportunities, they're inevitably only in things that somebody else probably doesn't want to do, or that is quite niche, which makes the job 10 times harder. It would be now, you know, now that I'm an experienced presenter, they said to me, go and do ping pong. I go, God, like, because I know how much work is and I wouldn't be the best presenter at it. So all of these things, when you're thrown any kind of scraps, you know, when you're given any kind of opportunities and that's how it felt.

Laura Woods (28m 41s):
But at the time I was like, yes, like I love scraps. Give me anything I can get. All you have to really do is just go and absorb yourself in it completely. So I would sit at my desk and I would watch programs in the last three years. I'd fast forward the actual sport, because that's fine. Those are the bits that you know. But it was all the bits in between the presentation parts and the interviews and the way that you were being questioned and personalities that you're getting back because they usually the same players anyway. So I'd really go and do that. And then I would research, and it was a lot, you know, it's a lot to do, but you're trying to be confident and you're trying to be comfortable and make the viewer feel that you have control of this whole thing.

Laura Woods (29m 26s):
And you only have that with knowledge.

Sue Anstiss (29m 28s):
Yeah.

Laura Woods (29m 28s):
If I've gone into something and I've not been fully prepped, I will slip up and I will be found out immediately. And those are the kinds of things, you know, I experienced that actually when I was interviewing darts players. So sometimes there were so many games and those early rounds of darts, you might've been working on something else that day. So you missed a game. So you'd interview this guy and you go, oh, wow. What about the 170 checkout? And he's like, yeah, but I lost the leg after. And I was like, yeah. And you know, little things like that, you think, oh God, you can't miss it. You can't miss a trick because you are interviewing the person that experienced all of it. So it's up to you to absorb all of that information, regurgitate it. I tell people around me, I tell my boyfriend at the time, I'd tell my mom, I'd be like, ask me about what happened in this.

Laura Woods (30m 12s):
She'd go, okay, what happened? And I say, well, and then just reel off, this useless information, but it helped me. So that's the only way you can do it is just arming yourself with as much information as possible and then managing to get confident in that zone. But yeah, those, I loved all of those things. I loved those sports because it felt like a Champions League final for me. It was the biggest thing ever. I was live presenting and live reporting. And I got this unreal buzz that that's how I know I'm meant to do it, because there's just this feeling of there's something about being live and doing live telly and working in sport, that it's so unpredictable. I don't know where you can get that from anywhere else.

Sue Anstiss (30m 54s):
I suppose. I was gonna ask you, I'm gonna go on to talk about the breakfast show, but how would you then I hear you, kind of on a Monday morning, how can you absorb all the sports that's been on that weekend? I mean, that must be such pressure to have watched all the key events. There's so much happening. You clearly can't physically watch it all. So how do you juggle that with having enough knowledge, to be able to engage in conversation?

Laura Woods (31m 15s):
What's hard about that job is the early morning, because you absorb everything and then you have to get up early. So you can't stay up too late. So you can't [inaudible] the day, like I can't, because it's too late. So what happens for me is the longer you're in that job, the more it's like in your paws, you know, you're just, you don't realize you're absorbing information, but you are. And you're so comfortable with that topic that I go to a game at the weekend. So it means I can't watch the other games live because I'm watching that game live and then I'm driving home. So then I'm going back over and I'm watching the highlights and I'm saying, okay, fine. And it just becomes easier, the more you do it. It's kind of like, you're riding a bike. It just gets easier and easier.

Laura Woods (31m 56s):
But also you kind of have to, sometimes your boss doesn't like you saying, well, I didn't watch that game because I was at this game. He doesn't like you saying that because then you've got to really analyze it. So sometimes it's about trusting that the person that you're with, the expert, trusting he's watched all the game and making sure you just know the right questions to ask and yeah. And taking all the highlights in. And what else I find really great is I read a lot. So I'll read a lot of things I can. The newspapers, obviously we do them in the show anyway. So I'll read a lot of the opinion pieces and I'll go, that's interesting. And then you always have to give credit to the person that's written. I kind of believe quite strongly in that it's not just to read an article and then pick up a piece of information. I always think, well, this is interesting to say that.

Laura Woods (32m 38s):
Henry Winter said this in The Times, in his piece or whatever, or other journalists are huge in that kind of thing. But again, if I have had an early night and I go to where not having watched as much football as I feel like I need to, found out immediately, and I ended up just going, I actually didn't watch that game, because I can't do it. I can't fake it. So it's a real, it's a juggle because the alarm goes off at four and you just think, oh, sometimes if you want to do all the work, you're up until 11. So it's a real, it's a hard balance.

Sue Anstiss (33m 12s):
Indeed. Indeed. You once said, women can be brain surgeons, but heaven forbid they dare talk about football, but how do you deal with the criticism that comes your way simply for doing your job?

Laura Woods (33m 25s):
It's really strange because sometimes I feel like I've mastered it and I'm like, oh, it doesn't matter this week. And then next week when I'm much more emotional, my hormones have changed, it really hurts me. So it's like walking down a road with a load of potholes and sometimes you can skip over them and sometimes they completely suck you up. I find the kind of get back in the kitchen comments. I find those, they annoy me a little bit, but then sometimes I'm kind of like, well, that's such an old joke. And if you haven't come up with anything new for the last, however many years, I feel sorry for you. If your opinion of a woman is genuine in that she needs to stay in the kitchen, you haven't evolved either. Like, what are you doing?

Laura Woods (34m 5s):
You know. And there was one the other day. It was, and it genuinely made me laugh. He said, talkSPORT is shaped. You're a terrible presenter. You don't know anything about football, go and work on something like netball. And then there was like a question mark. So it was like, netball? And it made me laugh. And I genuinely laughed at him. And I sent loads of laughing faces back. And then I looked at his page and I realized he'd sent almost like same, that exact same message to a load of different women. He sent one to Jules Breech, as well, but he changed it to BT Sport. And then he sent something else to a load of journalists that were working at covering the horse racing. The exact same one, I thought, is he a bot?

Laura Woods (34m 46s):
What is he? And I realized that a lot of the time, these people, we give them so much credit where we shouldn't, because these people are probably hurting in their own lives. And what makes them buzz is sending someone a nasty message. And then you acknowledging it. They know one of their arrows that they've fired at you has landed and it's hurt you. So I've learned to ignore a lot more than I ever used to, because I used to be quite, I don't, I used to be quite sparky with them. You know, I would really react. So, now I don't react as much, but it hurts. And I suppose it hurts more when it potentially comes from somebody that is in your industry or someone that you respect.

Laura Woods (35m 28s):
And that doesn't happen often. I have to be honest, but it's those people that I would rather take their opinion on.

Sue Anstiss (35m 34s):
You've mentioned the breakfast show there. So how tough was it for you to take over that flagship talkSPORT's show, both the breakfast show and, you know, taking over from a legend like Alan Brazil, who'd been there for so many years?

Laura Woods (35m 47s):
That was really hard. I think the hardest thing about that was that Alan is someone that I've listened to for years and years. And he's one of my dad's heroes and my brother's heroes, and we've all listened to him as a family. You know, my dad would come and pick us up from my mom's house and drive us back to his and talkSPORT would be on, whether we liked it or not. When you're a little girl, sometimes you want to just listen to Capital or Radio 1, or you want to hear some songs and it would always be talkSPORT. And I learned to love it from a really young age. And that's probably really fed into why I want to do it. So that voice, Alan's voice was always a comfort to me. So then having to replace him was a struggle for me, because I knew how the listeners felt if they were saying, oh, what, like, we want to hear Alan, right?

Laura Woods (36m 30s):
There was part of me that thought, yeah, me too, the timing of it as well, just as you're going into COVID, just was really hard for me because I had no release though. I had no sport to talk about. No co-host and that could be hard because it was, there was always a delay in the early days. It was a delay. We didn't have each other on Zoom, either. So...

Sue Anstiss (36m 49s):
Oh, wow.

Laura Woods (36m 50s):
When each other were talking and it was just so for four hours like that, your brain just fries. And then it was really hard as well to create a rapport with somebody. And our co-hosts were changing all the time. So even though Ally was consistent, we'd have another co-host, we'd have Freddie. Freddie joined after a while. And then it was about making Freddie feel comfortable. So yeah, those early days are really hard. I don't think I've ever experienced anything like that difficult. And then you'd come home and all you'd want to do really was go to the pub or see your mom, or see your friends and stuff like that and take your mind off of it. But there was none of that because we were isolated, essentially. So yeah, I found it really difficult. And I really wanted to say to people, please don't judge me on what you hear now, because this isn't and will never be the breakfast show.

Laura Woods (37m 35s):
This is all of us trying to survive in a world...

Sue Anstiss (37m 38s):
To get through yeah.

Laura Woods (37m 40s):
And no anything else. So yeah, it was, they were hard days, those ones.

Sue Anstiss (37m 45s):
And was there a moment when things turned a corner and you felt more settled in that role?

Laura Woods (37m 50s):
Yeah. I think as soon as sports came back and, genuinely, it was overnight. As soon as it came back, I just went, oh my God. Now I can talk to you. Like I would, and I can show you how I feel about these games and show you my knowledge. And it was just like this veil had been sort of lifted. It was so different. I've managed to find a better way of connecting with Ally so that we weren't talking on top of each other. And, you know, you were kind of laughing for no reason in the early days to fill air, where there was a delay, you kind of, [Imitates Fake Laughing] the feeling of what could last to sort of fill the time. I remember getting a load of messages saying, stop giggling. You're such a giggly little girl. And it really affected me because I was like, am I not allowed to laugh at things?

Laura Woods (38m 31s):
And I actually stopped laughing, genuinely stopped me from laughing. And even now it still affects the way I react to things because I lean back and I don't want to laugh on the microphone. And I, even though I want the guests to know that I find them funny and that's sometimes that's what that's all about, isn't it? Acknowledging...

Sue Anstiss (38m 47s):
Yeah.

Laura Woods (38m 48s):
...reaction to somebody. It has affected the way that I kind of react to things. Other than that, I've now found, now I'm a year on, I've suddenly relaxed into it. And I feel like I've experienced almost everything that we could possibly have experienced, in a year. You know, there were so many different issues that came into play. You know, when #BlackLivesMatter came about, we covered LGBTQ issues. We covered domestic violence. We've really had a lot this year because we know sport, the social issues became even louder. And I'm glad they were to be honest. I'm glad that we had a platform to talk about them on air with.

Laura Woods (39m 29s):
And I know that it's been good for a lot of people. So, but you know, reflecting on it, if someone had said to me, this is what's going to happen in the first year, I honestly don't know if I would have taken the job. I just don't think I would have.

Sue Anstiss (39m 40s):
And has that negativity reduced now? I mean, clearly, you winning amazing awards must help. And the fact that you're a year in, but have you seen that die away, those voices?

Laura Woods (39m 50s):
Yeah, I have, actually. It's suddenly, I don't even know when it happened, but people like to get on the bandwagon. So when someone goes, this has changed, everyone goes, I don't, we don't like change. Can you change it back? And then like, no, no, no. It's not going to change back. And then for awhile they hate you for it. And then eventually it dies down and the best kind of feedback I get, that I will take on board of the people that say, you know what, we weren't keen on this at the start, but now I really like it and you've changed my mind. And my boss actually said to me, when I was struggling, he said, look, do what you've always done and just win them over. And I do feel like I've, it's been a kind of life of winning people over, trying to win people over. So yeah, there's a big part of that in my mind, that I just think, well, yeah, you know what, that's part of the job.

Laura Woods (40m 32s):
You are a presenter if you've put yourself out there. So yeah. It's your job to try and look after and entertain these people. And it did. Yeah, it definitely did change.

Sue Anstiss (40m 42s):
And I know you've supported other female broadcasters and journalists in the past that they've come under attack. So how important is it that we can hold each other up? And how important do you think it is that male allies play their part? I know you've had great support there too.

Laura Woods (40m 55s):
Massively, massively, because I love the support that I have from that community, the female community on Twitter, who are also into their sport. And there's so many young girls that are writing things and I think, wow, like you're writing match reports and you're having the confidence to put them on Twitter. And then you're getting dogs abuse from men that are telling you to get back into the kitchen, you don't know what you're talking about. And I really like engaging with these kind of girls, because I think I don't realize I'm that person now. It's still very strange to me because I'm still treading water in many aspects. So I'm sort of like, hang on a minute. You won't, you're looking to me for inspiration, where I don't know if I can give it to you.

Laura Woods (41m 37s):
So I'm finding that, that I find amazing. I'm getting to grips with it, but also talking to those guys, I love it, because I'm like, wow, well, you know, what are you doing? And what are you going through? And you know what, don't worry about it because like, I'm experiencing that too. And I'm going to be a weather presenter now. So it's important that we all kind of have those experiences and talk about them and share them so that we can support each other because it makes a big difference. It's strange, isn't it? There's a thing in the world I think, where women are naturally pitted against each other and we can't all exist in the world of broadcasting without one of them being the best or you two are good, but you look better or you two are good, but you sound better.

Laura Woods (42m 20s):
And actually your knowledge is better. And it's like stop comparing. It doesn't need to be like that. There are enough jobs for all of us and everyone is brilliant at their own thing. So that part of the world, I think, is great in terms of women supporting each other. But I do think that there is a huge place for men allies, Gary Neville, I find is amazing. Just so brilliantly supportive. You might do something and he might retweet it. And that's all he needs to do, to show his support. He's not quite retweeting going over the top and saying, oh, this is amazing. You all should support Laura. She's a woman, but it doesn't matter. You know, he does it and it's natural and seamless. And I genuinely don't think he does it because we're women. I think he does it because genuinely he believes in uplifting people that he thinks are good.

Laura Woods (43m 1s):
I think those are the kinds of levels of support from men that are crucial because they are norms. So it's just Gary going, that person there is a colleague of mine. It doesn't matter if she's a woman or a man. She's a colleague of mine. And I think she's doing a good job and I'm showing my support for her because then people go, oh, if Gary thinks she's cool, then yeah, maybe we think she's cool as well. And it happens with all of the guys I work with on talkSPORT. I really appreciate it when they show me a level of respect, because you can hear it. I said, this one, Karen [inaudible] called this abuse. I said, unfortunately, the playing field isn't level. The reaction isn't equal, yet. For example, for Leeds to have put what they did on their social media about Karen, oh, but we would have done it if it was a man and we're sort of stuff.

Laura Woods (43m 48s):
But the difference is the reaction to a man saying it wouldn't have been the same. And that's the kind of naivety that I think people need to accept is it's not a playing field yet. So you do have to help along the way, because until we get to a level playing field, Karen will always get more abuse. I will always get more abuse for any of my opinions than a man will get. But also when a man gets abuse, sometimes it doesn't affect them as much because they are generally, they feel accepted in that world. That's where the, I suppose, the goalposts are different. And that's where I think male allies come into it and are so important because they can change perceptions. They can change perceptions of the general public just by accepting you.

Laura Woods (44m 32s):
And just by showing you that kind of subconscious support, it does impact people.

Sue Anstiss (44m 38s):
I loved your point about the retweeting. I read something yesterday from Julie DiCaro, who's American, wrote the book, "Sidelined in American Sports", presenter, a female sports presenter, but she was encouraging men rather than just like, if you can like it, retweet it. The power of a retweet from another male presenter of a female's content is massive.

Laura Woods (44m 57s):
It really is. And it's, I love that someone else is talking about that, because it genuinely, the first time Gary Neville ever did that to one of my tweets, I honestly, I went, oh my God. And I lifted up my phone and I went Gary Neville, just, and I sent it to my mom. I said, Gary Neville has just retweeted my tweet. I can't even remember what it was now, but it was obviously something back in the day. So it's like maybe four years ago or something like that three, four years ago. And it was such an impact on me, but I thought, well, that's going to have a massive impact on everyone that follows him as well, subconsciously. And then they were, well, he's retweeted, but they'll go cool. He has respect for that woman. So you should too.

Sue Anstiss (45m 36s):
It's below the radar, isn't it? I like that it's not obvious. And obviously with Alex Scott, officially announced as a new presenter of BBC's, that we'll focus this week. Do you feel that we're finally reaching a tipping point for women in sports broadcasting?

Laura Woods (45m 50s):
I think so. I think I'm always careful with how I approach this, because it's, like I said earlier on, what I'm really aware of is, you know, and there's been interviews I've done in the past, where people have said that I'm blazing a trail and I might be in my own way, but I feel so strongly that there are so many people before me that have blazed an even harder trail. To be honest, Scotty, no one's been a female pundit before like that. And what she's doing is, I've watched her, you know, I used to do little bits of presenting. She was one of the other presenters in Soccer AM online. So five or six years, it's been since year 2020, really?

Laura Woods (46m 30s):
So we were both in France together. We're both doing these bits and bobs, and it was funny at the time and she was still playing as well. And we were just lurking around and it was a great job. And then you fast forward and you think, wow, like, look what she's doing now. What really frustrates me is that when people criticize Scotty and say, well, you know, she's not the level of experiences, Roy Keane or Graeme Souness, sitting next to her, you know, Gary Neville, Jamie Redknapp. But you know, what she does have is huge balls to be able to sit next to those guys and have her own opinion back it up and disagree with them, would you, she's not just done all of her homework and she's not just eloquent enough to deliver it because that's a big part of broadcasting that gets overlooked,,is you could be a brilliant sports person, but if you can't deliver what you're trying to say, you can't communicate properly.

Laura Woods (47m 19s):
None of your points are going to hit home. And she does the two in sync and she does it with this unbelievable strength to be able to sit next to those boys in that room. It's hard enough when you're a presenter and you're asking questions to those guys. It's hard enough seeing the whites of their eyes, you know, but if you were sitting there saying, well, actually I think it's this. I mean, I would shit myself. I absolutely would. She doesn't get enough credit for that, for me.

Sue Anstiss (47m 48s):
And when you're saying people, you mentioned Alex, but also Scotty, Clare Balding, [inaudible] to present much more than just sports programs. Is that something that you'd like to do in the future?

Laura Woods (47m 59s):
I think for me, I love football, but it's not been my only sport that I've been in love with, throughout my life. So I feel really comfortable in football, but it's not necessarily somewhere that I want to stay forever. I just don't think I'd ever want to leave it, if that makes sense. But stuff happens. Things change. I've learned that I could say one thing and then next week something else could happen. But I always, it's funny when you talk about Clare, I remember watching the 2012 Olympics. And I remember seeing her pork open-ended for maybe five or six minutes on the flowers that were outside the Olympic stadium. She just started talking about these flowers.

Laura Woods (48m 39s):
And I was like, wow, what are these flowers? I was like, I'm so interested in these flowers. And it was becuase of her delivery. She was word perfect. Not scripted. Just came out of her mouth. She was just thinking on the spot and her performance in the 2012 Olympics was, I think she won an award for that, actually. I was blown away. And one thing that that did do for me actually was I remember thinking I can't deliver like that. I can't speak without going um, ah, stopping what I'm saying, tripping over certain words. I need something in front of me that's scripted. I need something to kind of like to tell me what I'm going to say. That's actually why I started working in radio, because in radio you have to be more fluid.

Laura Woods (49m 23s):
I needed something. I needed more experience and it was because of watching Clare do that piece about bloody flowers. Just these little things have an impact on you that can be so lasting.

Sue Anstiss (49m 34s):
And finally, two final questions. One is, how do your family react? We sort of started talking about your mum, but how does your mum feel now in terms of the, your career path and all that you're doing? I mean, she probably wants you to do more in rugby, but...

Laura Woods (49m 50s):
She probably does, actually. She's so proud. And my mom gets up every morning at six and listens to my show.

Sue Anstiss (49m 56s):
Oh wow.

Laura Woods (49m 57s):
She has done since I took that job and she will always message me and she'll say, "Morning, Beautiful," or, she calls me Larry, "Morning, Larry." And it's just really funny. And what it is, is it's almost like someone's just holding your hand. Cause those early days were so hard and like she was kind of the only one really that I wanted to talk to. But then you want to filter a little bit of that information because what you want to do for your parents, as well, is protect them a little bit so they don't see you hurting, if that makes sense. You want to say, oh, Mum, I'm really hurting, but you don't want to put that pain on her. So that was a bit of a tug of war when I was going through that early stuff. I didn't want to tell her everything. And then I did, and I just said, I've come, I'm really finding this hard.

Laura Woods (50m 41s):
And I don't think I'm good at it. And I don't think I can do it anymore. I've just had a message and it says this. And I realized actually that all those things that hurt me, hurt her as well. In any point of my life, she's been on that road with me. So I think, yeah, I think there's a big connection between me and my mom.

Sue Anstiss (50m 59s):
I love the fact that she's listening to you in the morning. That is beautiful. And just finally, you obviously had such an incredible career so far, but if you had to share some advice and I'm sure you're often asked, but with either your younger self or a woman coming into the sector, now, what would that be?

Laura Woods (51m 17s):
I think about this a lot and I think, A, give yourself a break because you're constantly trying to hit targets or hit, get to somewhere by a certain time. And it takes longer than you think. I didn't start, I was working in TV for about six years, but I think five, six years before I even got an opportunity to do anything on camera. And somebody said to me, one of the journalists I was working with the other day said, you're a bit like a Jamie Vardy, aren't you? It seemed like you went through the lower leagues and all that sort of crap. And then you've hit the big time, but you're a bit older now. And I'm like, okay, I'll take that. I'm kind of amazed. But yeah, I didn't, I used to, I was really, really hard on myself.

Laura Woods (51m 59s):
And I think for young girls that want to be a presenter, I think it's harder now because when I was a bit younger, we didn't have Instagram. We didn't have Twitter. I'm very cautious of the fact that it looks better than it is. You know, you can really make it look glamorous and it's not glamorous. It's like, you know, you're sitting in a wet seat watching football, and if you're in a place that's not undercover and it's freezing cold and you've really got to do it because you've got this passion for it. And then you've got to deal with people that don't think you've got enough passion for it, or enough knowledge. So be kind to yourself as much as possible. I was listening to a podcast the other day and I loved it. Jake Humphrey was on with Fearne Cotton.

Laura Woods (52m 42s):
And he said to Fearne, "Whose voice do you hear most in one day?" She went my husband's and he went, no, it's not. She went my kids and he was like, no, no, no, it's not. It's yours. And he said, it's your voice in your own head? And when you wake up in the morning, if you're going to yourself, oh, you need to lose more weight or you're not good enough at your job. You've not got to somewhere fast enough. That starts to filter, that's your voice. That's like somebody saying to you, you're not good enough, externally, constantly. And I realized that the other day when I woke up and I was walking to the bathroom and I thought, I'm too heavy or on to listen to that. And I was like, stop saying that. So I think really you've got to, there's a lot of self-care in this industry that you have to have. You know, 34 in the summer and I'm only just discovering that now.

Laura Woods (53m 24s):
So yeah, I think don't be too harsh on yourself because all the other lessons about read all the time, do your homework, do everything, we know that. Everyone knows that, you know, that's your own. You've got to have that passion already to do the job when you do otherwise, you wouldn't be where you are. So yeah, I think go easy on yourself and don't be so negative, cause you have to be your own cheerleader, I think.

Sue Anstiss (53m 47s):
I loved talking to Laura. It's clear to see why she's had so much extraordinary success. And I look forward to following her career progression in the future. If you'd like to hear more about the career paths of other trailblazing women in sports broadcasting, my previous guests on the podcast have included Gabby Logan, Clare Balding, Kelly Cates, Elly Oldroyd, Ebony Rainford-Brent and Jess Creighton. You can find out more about these guests and all the others from previous series fearlesswomen.co.uk. And that's also where you can see some of the other work I do, including The Women's Sport Collective; a network for any women working in sport.

Sue Anstiss (54m 27s):
You can also sign up to Changing The Game, our free weekly newsletter that highlights the latest developments in women's sport.

Barclays (54m 36s):
Thanks once again, to Barclays for their very kind support of the Game Changers.

Sue Anstiss (54m 41s):
To Sam Walker, our executive producer, [Inaudible] on sound production and to Kate Hannon, who's behind the scenes, making sure everything runs smoothly. Do come and say hello on social media where you'll find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram @thegamechangers or @SueAnstiss. That's it for this series of the Gamechangers. We'll be back with more amazing trailblazing guests later in the year. But before I say goodbye ahead of the Tokyo Olympics, we have a very special bonus episode coming up, with one of Team GB's, most extraordinary athletes. I got to sit down with world champion heptathlete Katarina Johnson-Thompson.

Sue Anstiss (55m 24s):
I can't wait to share the episode with you.

Katarina Johnson-Thompson (55m 28s):
At 23, going into Rio Olympics, everything could change. Now, I was very low on confidence, but being through a number of different serious injuries, a number of big defeats and number of times where I, you know, couldn't handle the pressure, honestly. So I think that in between those years it was, I didn't lose the love for the sport a little bit, but that was a very tough time for me in order to break through that and come out the other side, then compete just for the love of sport was a very long, hard road.

Sue Anstiss (55m 57s):
The Game Changers. Fearless women in sport.