Serena Guthrie: What it takes to be a strong leader in sport

Today's guest is recognised as one of the world’s greatest ever netballers. Serena Guthrie was part of the England team that secured that incredible gold medal at the 2018 Commonwealth Games against Australia on the Gold Coast.  

Serena played in New Zealand and Australia, before returning home to Team Bath in 2019 where she captained the Roses to bronze in a home World Cup. In recognition for all she’s done for netball in 2019 she was awarded an MBE in the New Year Honours list.

Serena been Captain of England Netball and Team Bath, with over 100 caps for her country, she’s played in 3 Netball World Cups and Birmingham 2022 this summer should have been her 3rd Commonwealth Games but things changed this month, when she announced she was having a baby and retiring from netball.

In this fascinating conversation Serena talks openly about the challenges she's faced in her long career and we explore the commercial potential and future strategy for Britain’s most popular female sport.

A huge thank you to our partners, Sport England who are kindly supporting the next three series of The Game Changers podcast through the National Lottery.

Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.

Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers

Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media

A Fearless Women production

Transcript

Serena Guthrie: What it takes to be a strong leader in sport

Sue Anstiss :

Hello, and welcome to The Game Changers. I'm Sue Anstiss. And this is the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazing women in sport. What can we learn from their incredible journeys as we explore some of the key issues around equality in sport and beyond?  A big thank you to our partner Sport England, who are kindly supporting the next three series of The Game Changers through the National Lottery. 

My guest today is recognised as one of the world's greatest ever netballers, Serena Guthrie. Serena was part of the England team that secured that incredible gold medal in the 2018 Commonwealth Games against Australia on the Gold Coast, it still gives me goosebumps, just thinking about it. Serena played in New Zealand and Australia before returning home to Team Bath in 2019, where she captained the Roses to bronze in her home World Cup.  in recognition for all she's done for netball, in 2019 she was awarded an MBE in the New Year's honours list. Serena has been captain of England and Team Bath with over a hundred caps for her country. She's played in three netball World Cups, and Birmingham 2022 this summer should have been her third Commonwealth Games, but things have changed!  So Serena I'd like to start with a hugely exciting news that you shared last week, that you are retiring from netball because you are having a baby. So how are you feeling a week on from sharing that news?

Serena Guthrie:

Yes. Well, thank you, thanks for that intro. It's great to be here. And, yeah, it's been really nice to share the news with everybody know, it's, I'm quite an open person, so to keep this under wraps, was quite difficult for the, for the last couple of months, but yeah, I'm just really, you know, really excited to, uh, well, see what the Roses can do this summer and obviously for my next kind of adventure. So, haha.

Sue Anstiss:

Absolutely. And there has been such an outpouring of love for you, I think since you made the announcement. So how, how has that felt to be on the other, other side of that?

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah, it's been incredibly overwhelming. I wasn't expecting that level of attention, I suppose from all over the world, you know, it wasn't just England Rose's fans or Team Bath fans. It was, you know, people who have seen me playing netball over the last 15 years and it’s been quite an emotional week, really, to be honest with you.

Sue Anstiss:

You've clearly got many wonderful new experiences ahead in your life, but what will it be about being a professional athlete, professional netballer do you think that you'll miss the most?

Serena Guthrie:

I think it's that level of camaraderie that, and the relationships I've I've, you know, got with all of my teammates, I think, I'm, I'm very passionate player, but the reason I'm so passionate is cause I just want the best for my teammates and they're massive drivers and me wanting to be the best I can be as well. So I'm, I'm gonna miss all those changing room moments, the trips in between the sessions, all those kind of little things that you don't really always like, people don't always get to see all those like special moments you get to share,  he team meetings, the team banter, and obviously singing the national Anthem. Not that I'm any, any good at singing, but gosh, is it good to belt that out every now and then for your country?!

Sue Anstiss:

Fantastic. I don't… will they let you stay in the WhatsApp group. I'm not sure if you’re allowed to kinda stay in that for a while, as you move on?

Serena Guthrie:

They did say, yeah, don't leave it yet. So I think I'm still, I still kick around there for a little bit longer, which is nice. So, hahaha!

Sue Anstiss:

Can I take you back to where it all began for you, you were born in Jersey. It's a place I've never visited actually, but I would love to go cause it's where my mom and dad went on a honeymoon in 1955. but can you tell us a little bit about family life and, and growing up in Jersey?

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah, so, Jersey is, it's an amazing place to grow up. You know, it's very outdoorsy, it's almost like a mini Australia or New Zealand in that sense, beautiful beaches, you’re outdoors most weekends really. Summers are fantastic few degrees warmer than England. So as we're a little bit closer, a little bit south to France. but yeah, I mean it's sport mad, which is kind of where my love grew for sport and netball in general and that's pretty much what I, you know, how I used to fill my weekends. Mum was the taxi driver, It was football to netball back to some athletics, maybe a bit of badminton in there and it was great, you know, it was, it was, it was an awesome place to be able to kind of carve my sports craft out, you know, not just with netball, but learning how to be an athlete and turn my hand to loads of different things growing up. 

Sue Anstiss:

And your brother Curtis is also a sportsman. So the professional footballer I believe is, is playing in India at the moment? So what is it about your family? Do you, you think that produced not one but two extraordinary athletes?

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah. Yeah. So he is, yeah, like you say, he is out in India, which is a bit left wing, but oh my gosh, is he enjoying it! It's, it's a great experience for him and that’s to beat your sport, right.? You never know where it's gonna take you, but just like me, we were both sport mad. I like to think that I taught him everything he knows in terms of the football, because as we did used to play a lot of kids, so he's, he owes me a lot for where he is at the moment in his career. I'm always claiming that!  But no, he's a great athlete in himself and you know, he's on his own journey. Football's a different beast to netball, you know, in terms of the opportunities and it's a little bit more ruthless as well in a business sense. So, you know, he's, had his trials and tribulations as well, but yeah, I mean, it, it'll be interesting. It'll be nice to sit down when we're both retired one day talking about our journeys and our experiences and comparing and things like that. But yeah, really proud to be able to see him out there doing his thing as well for football.

Sue Anstiss:

And you talk about the, I guess the ruthlessness in football, but there's clearly a huge disparity between football and pretty much any sport that's out there in terms of the potential to earn a really good living. Did that ever make you feel envious? You talked about playing football. Was that, was that an option for you in terms of playing football?

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah. So when I was 16, I got offered to come to Bath to I trained in netball high performance program, but there was also an offer to enter the Charlton ladies academy as well and kind of go and train down there. And it was a bit of a decision for me really, cause I loved football, you know, I really did, but I enjoyed netball more. I, I enjoyed the challenge of the game more and by that point I'd met players like Jo Harton, who’s still playing for England today. So, you know, it's pretty much hook, line and sinker once I met my best mate and and enjoyed playing sport with her. It's an interesting one. Isn't it? That the whole, the disparity, especially with pay, I suppose, between, you know, football and netball, I think it's a hard one to compare against just because the depth of the history, you know, that football has.

But gosh, yeah. Do I wish… you know, my brother's playing premier league out in India. And, you know, he's probably earning a lot more than any netballer in this country, that's just the difference, is the beast that we're talking about here. it's not just the money, it's the level of opportunity and that's where I'd love to see the sport grow. I'd love to see kind of more semi-professional, professional leagues, to just to give athletes opportunities to go and experience different countries, new cultures, and continue their craft because that's what it's all about. Isn't it, it's about experience at the end of the day. And our English league is, you know, it’s growing and it's great to be a part of that's one of the reasons why I wanted to come back from Australia and New Zealand, but currently it's only out in Australian New Zealand where you're gonna get that fully fledged professional netball experience. So, you know, we've got a bit of groundwork to do in terms of that.

Sue Anstiss:

And are you confident we can get there, that we are on a path to more professionalism for England women, but more broadly across the world?

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah, we are. It just, it, these things take time. It's not just as simple as money, you know, we, we also have to have the right structures to invest in as well. And I think that's probably the next step, you know, for netball, making sure that we've got good infrastructure, good foundation to inject money and that looks attractive to investors to wanna, you know, let go of large amounts of money so we can start to drive resource in the right space. And it's a process, you know, the athletes, we've gotta do our job in terms of making the product look, look exciting. And I think the Super League’s done a great job of that this season you see in like Pulse, Surrey Storm, taking scouts and unfortunately team Bath was one of them. And yeah, I think that's that, that is great for the sport whilst it's not so great for us as a franchise. It's more exciting, right? So if, if we want more investment in the sport, the athletes have got to do their part, but then obviously from an organisational perspective, we have to provide the structures, so the money can be injected into the right place at the right time.

Sue Anstiss:

And the stadia is important too, isn't it? I guess, where it's played and crowds and kind of the whole physical infrastructure too?

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah, like facilities has always been a challenge for netball. You know, we're not gonna feel necessarily an 80,000 seater stadium. It's just that, a different type of game when it comes to that. So it's about trying to provide facilities where we can have, smaller stadiums, but you know, still relatively kind of medium size crowd, you know, in Australia, there's sometimes a bit of a dual model between some of the states, you know, and things like that. So kind of in two teams in one state being able to use kind of the same stadium, which is great, cause it creates this kind of central hub for netball. And I think it would be great to try and start to look at how we can, you know, build and we will have to build some facilities, you know, in essence, or start to think about how we can sublease or contract out, you know, smaller arenas, but there aren't many small arenas in the UK and that's a challenge as well, you know, so, and there's, there's a way to go in terms of the facilities, but you know, I, I do believe that wheels are  in motion to try and help clubs in terms of stepping away from the, the more primal structures that have kind been around over the last kind of 20 years. And like moving forward into a more kind of professional era.

Sue Anstiss:

And, and just coming back to, I guess, your route from schoolgirl through England pathway, and you mentioned coming across to the Bath academy. So when was it you started to take it really seriously as an elite athlete? Was it at that time?

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah, probably for about 16 onwards. I mean, I had played under 17 and under 19 netball before I'd left, for England. So it was getting a bit more serious for me up until that point, I suppose, but really when I left home and decided to join a high performance program, that was, that was kind of it for me in terms of, you know, no more football, no more other sports it's time just to kind of focus on my netball. And you know, it was a great feeling to, to, to do that, to know that I've had that I had that opportunity as well to, to be able to just focus on that. So yeah, since 16 really, I've been fully, fledged netball only chasing my dreams.

Sue Anstiss:

And you made your debut for England against Malawi, I believe in 2008 when you were just 18. Yeah. So who were the women at the time that inspired you? The nets that you saw that were your role models?

Serena Guthrie:

In terms of, in the England team at the time in terms of the midcore, you know, Sarah Bayman and Jade Clark who's outlived us all. She's outlived me, Jade Clark, our most capped player. Karen Atkinson who's a, just a, a fantastic leader as well to be around as a youngster, seeing her kind of lead the team and yeah, and how she stood up for the team was fantastic. So I had so many great role models around me to kind of base my career off really, I suppose, to see kind of what they were doing, what was working, but then also the mistakes they were making as well, cause we do that as athletes, we don't always get it right. And I think for me, that was quite key in terms of my success and my growth. It was kind of looking at what was going on, but also how could I be better? But I mean, what a group of athletes to be able to be around to do that? Do you know what I mean? I feel incredibly lucky, that I was able to experience some of my journey with some of those great England athletes.

Sue Anstiss:

And you were one of the first, England players to head to New Zealand to play in the, ANC championship with the Northern mystics. What was that experience like? Were you made to feel welcome as one of the, well, I think you were the only overseas player in the team at the time.

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah. So at the time it was, there were 10 kind of spots in the whole world really to, to be an import player and go and have an opportunity out there. So they were a fantastic team to go to, you know, New Zealand, are very hot when it comes to culture and people and family and I think that rings true for all of the franchises out there. Not just, the Northern mystics. So in terms of welcoming, it couldn't have been any warmer to be honest with you. And I learned, I learned a lot out there about what it means to build culture, um, and be a part of legacy and something bigger than yourself. So it was, it was great to experience that in general, in New Zealand, cause that's like a theme that pretty much runs through not just its netball teams, but its rugby, its cricket sport is part of who you are out there and I was able to kind of take some of those lessons and, and, and take them on, into my next experiences. So yeah, Mystics was a great start for me, many, many fond memories.

Sue Anstiss:

And in 2017 you moved to the Sydney based giants and, and you were named the club's most valuable player in 2017 and 2018. So how did your game play, or the way in which you played change during your time in New Zealand and Australia?

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah. So did, I mean the decision to go to Giants was a, a really tough one cause I, I really had enjoyed my time with the Mystics. But I think you have to try and understand or recognise what's easy versus what what's needed. I think, as an athlete and it would've been a lot easier for me to stay in that environment and I probably would've still improved, but I don't think I would've maximized my potential as a player. so yeah, to, to be able to go to a completely new franchise and build a culture, start to build history and our brand, and who we wanted to be was really appealing for me in terms of personal growth as well. And what I could add off the court as well as on the court. And I mean, Judy Fitzgerald, who is the Giants coach, still is now. 

I mean, I owe a lot to her really because she took me on as her only centre and I wasn't really getting many games at to for Mystics really. And that's kind of where I wanted, that was the space I really wanted to enter just to see what I could do there. So, I've got Julie to thank for taking a bit of a punt on a wild card and letting, letting me kind of interpret and craft the game in my own way. She's a real cultural architect, Julie.  she's, you know, she's all about people and it was a hundred percent the right move for me and Giants to this day really were the best club experience that I've ever had in terms of the people, the professionalism, the systems that were put in place, it was just an amazing experience. It was tough to leave. but again, it was the right decision for me at the right time. It was great to be under Julie, and under her I think I probably started to become a more of a world class athlete rather than just a, a great competitor. And that's where I always wanted to be. So I was pretty excited to get the move, when the opportunity came

Sue Anstiss:

And was there much difference in the coaching… you've talked about, Julie, the kind of culture that she created there, but is there anything else you could identify that the coaching was very different at the time to the coaching in the UK? Obviously you were paid and you were playing as professional athletes, but, from a coach's perspective, was there anything that was very different there?

Serena Guthrie:

I think the, where Judy really struck the balance was on her expectations that she had within the group. She cared a lot about you and that was almost more important than the actual game to her. You know, she was always bringing the group back into the present moment in terms of appreciating actually what we are doing here and the opportunity that we have as a group and how amazing it is to actually be able to be doing what we're doing, which I think you sometimes forget along the journey of being an elite athlete and that really kind of changed my perspective on the game and how it should be looked at and how we should perceive pressure or, you know, and all these types of things.:

So I think for her, it was less of the tactical stuff, but more about in and around the game itself and how we, and how we should view it, that I can really take away, I suppose, from, from that experience. We worked hard. She made us work hard, and that was, you know, she set the bar high, but you wanted to work for her because she cared so much about you. And that was kind of her philosophy. If you can build great relationships with people, they'll go to the end of the earth for you. And that's something that resonates really strongly with me and my own leadership. Relationships are key, you know, if you wanna people to follow you have to put the, the work and effort into actually getting to understand your team around you. And Julie did that extremely well. She does do that extremely well still now.

Sue Anstiss:

I was lucky enough to visit, netball New South Wales in early 2019. And I loved seeing those huge images of Joe Harton and Helen Housby on the size of buses and buildings, but can you tell us more about netball in Australia at that time and the profile of the sport there? Cause I think that was the thing that really struck me was the way people recognized the players and talked about the players.

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah, I think netball in Australia is naturally ingrained into their culture. You know, it's not seen as, oh this just, a female sport it's, very much seen as one of the premier team sports in the country. And I think because of that, there is consistent interest in the athletes and the team in the league and it was, it's great to be a part of that not just to be a small cog in the wheel, but to understand that you're part of a much bigger process as an athlete and I think that's probably like the main difference to, to kind of the league over here to what's happening over there. It's that, that level of interest, with it comes more investment. And, you know, because of that,  the structures that netball New South Wales have, it's quite complex, you know, and it's wide reaching,  very wide reaching as well, obviously that everyone's got room for improvement, but, you know, I think that's something that's quite, was quite impressive to kind of step into and see just the amount of programs and things that they have going on, just for netball. It's kind of mind blowing just for one region. Actually, that's something I had never really experienced before, as a player and they're constantly wanting the athletes to push, push you, push these programs out as role models and, and be at the forefront of it, be the face of it, you know, which is it's, it's really nice to be a part of, even though I wasn’t Australian to know that you're doing something really good in the game and you've all got a part to play, I think was, it's quite an empowering, a pattern empowering thing. And I think you can kind of see that in the athletes out there with the programs that they get involved in, and Fitsies 50s and the coaching, all the, the spinoffs that come from all these franchises, I think is really smart and really clever 

Sue Anstiss:

And you mentioned that you're obviously your best friend Joe, Harton’s still out there playing for the giants. So did you have any regrets when you were return home or did you know, was it the right decision you now looking back now, you know, it was the right decision at the right time. Yeah.

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah. Well, gosh, I mean, I miss the Giants terribly even now. I mean I've got such fond memories, of that franchise, playing with Jo, you know, we had two great years together, playing in the England dress is amazing with her, but to be able to play at club level, that was really special. And to run around with your mate down the attack again. Yeah. It's pretty cool. But, ah, I, for me, what's, I've always what I've always tried to do. And even around this announcement around my pregnancy is that it’s …I think you always have to kind of just check in with yourself about what's right for you in life, you know, and netball whilst it's professional out in Australia, it's, it's not professional everywhere. Right. So I think for me, it's kind of making sure that I can have that reference point and check in with my direction. I want to go in life. You know, netball is a part of my life. It's not my whole life. And I think that's something I've always been quite strong on in terms of understanding who I am outside of the game. And whilst it was really difficult to leave the Giants, it was to totally the right decision for me. You know, I wanted to be a part of English, netball, not Australian netball. And that was something that I've always been quite passionate about, about improving our own game. Cause I'm an English player. So for me, I wanted to finish my over here. I wanted to try and make inroads, over here as a role model. and you know, whilst it's great and you are really well appreciated over in Australia, you know, you're not Australian. they're always gonna look after their own, just like we all look after our own. And I think that was a realisation for me whilst I was, I know I was very much appreciated, valued and loved as you know, as an import player, it's just not my league at the end of the day. And I'm really passionate about, about pushing things on this side of the pond because we've got a job to do. And I feel, I suppose a bit duty bound, always have done,  to, to be a part of that.

Sue Anstiss:

And anyone, who's watched you play, you give a hundred percent in every game. So how have you been able to motivate yourself after so many years to keep playing at that, that very highest level and keep getting better? Cause that's something that I'm sure many athletes could learn from.

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah. I think it all comes down for me like mindset and the reason why I'm playing netball and that's really important as an athlete, you have to understand why you're getting out the out of your own bed in the morning, especially when you're going through the tough times or the winter months when you're up at 7:00 AM and it's icy and it's cold and you don't wanna be outside or you've just, you know, lost to Australia in a quad series and it doesn't feel great. You have to understand kind of what your angle is, you know, what your agenda is. And that's something that I've always kept at the forefront of my mind, I suppose.

I think for me, that's been really key to, to my motivation and, and recognizing what I love about the game. So apart from the playing part, it's, it's the girls, it's the people, it's the culture. So I throw myself into those areas of the game, um, because that's what gets me going. You know, if, if we didn't have a good culture, if we didn't have a good time, you probably wouldn't see the Serena that you see out in court. So those are the things that I give energy to, which, you know, not only helps me, but it also helps my team as well. 

Sue Anstiss:

Excellent. And England Netball recently announced a new partnership with England men's, and mixed netball association. And in fact, I saw my first, men's game recently at the opening of the, Vitality netball super league season up in Birmingham. So I'm really interested to know what you think about men playing netball.

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah, I think it's, a great addition. I'm really pleased to see England netball kind of take the men's game under their wing. We have been spoken a long time about the fact that we're inclusive and that should involve men as well. So I think it's a really kind of positive step forward. I think it offers a whole new set of opportunities and new audience to what we can do as well. And I'm really looking forward to seeing how that partnership can grow. I think, you know, the men play the game and they interpret the game completely differently to the women. And I think that's a fantastic thing. I think they can play it. You know, they, they are stronger, you know, they can jump higher, you know, they can do the lay ups. There's a lot more flare, which I think is just great to watch as a spectator, I love watching it and I think we can actually learn a lot from each other. Right. And that's what it's all about. It's about collabo so we can actually learn and grow. It's really, really, really pleasing that they now have a seat at the table.

Sue Anstiss:

I did enjoy it much more than I thought I would!  It was really very entertaining to watch. 

Serena Guthrie :

It’s fun isn’t it?

Sue Anstiss: 

I know, I know. I'm not sure how I felt, but that's interesting. Cause I do think that for the wider network community, I sense majority, like the fact that netball is a women's game. And I think I've said the same. I've been asked this in the past myself actually, you know, it's keeping it for women and girls. So I guess what do you say to those people that do feel protective of it and feel that is part of its this specialness of netball is the fact that it is a women's game.

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah. I think there's a slight traditionalist in me as well. I think, you know, one thing that is special about netball is that it has been able to belong to women and we've lived in a world for a very long time where maybe that's all people have had, you know, in, in terms of a sense of belonging and identity and something that they can call their own, but the world's changing and we have to change with it. And, you know, if we to follow in the footsteps, I think as a, as a female dominated sport, that in terms of having the opportunities that have been taken away from us, just because we're female, who are we to take away now from, from the men, just because we're a bit protective. I think we have, we have to open our hearts and minds to the future. And that is moving towards, I think, a much more inclusive space in sport, arts culture, you name it, so I think, yeah, for everybody not to panic, it's not gonna change our sport. It's, it's just, it's great to open it up and to see what other opportunities come from it.

Sue Anstiss:

I love that. No! nobody panic. And we talk about improving diversity, but not, not just in players, but in fans is an important aspect too. So have you always found netball to be an inclusive environment?

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah,  I mean, I have, I've had really positive experience,  around a variety of,  people that have come to watch me play and engage with me as a player as well in terms of the fans. And I, I do think that has diversified tenfold since I did begin my netball journey, you know, I've, I think last week I've had a number of people Instagram me saying, oh my God, I can't believe my husband knew about this before me. And it's not because he's just supporting his girlfriend. It's because they are genuinely following the game. And you know, that definitely wasn't happening when I came to Bath at 16 years old. So I think for me, those little things and you start picking it up, you know, they're really good barometers for kind of what's happening in the wider, um, you know, in the wider fan base, I suppose, and how, and the interests and the growth of the sport. So yeah, no, I've had nothing, but, yeah, positive experiences.

Sue Anstiss:

And if you look at the makeup of the roses team itself is definitely more diverse than sports like hockey and cricket and rugby and football. So why do you think that is and what can those sports learn from netball? Is there are there learnings that can transfer across?

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah, no, Def I think, yeah, you're right there, there are a lot of learnings I think we are. Cause we've always been a lot better in terms of those other sports mentioned around that like inclusivity and, and diversity, but there's still a way to go. I think particularly around the opportunity piece, you know, we've got a, a lot of different, different cultures that are really into netball, but there still just isn't the opportunity for them to get out and actually play the game for various reasons, whether it's just where they live or if it's facilities, whether it’s money it's very varied still. So I think we need to look at how we can kind of infiltrate a bit deeper into the more like the inner city environments, you know, inner Bristol, inner Birmingham, those types of areas where you've got girls that, and boys that love the game, but just don’t how to get into it. So I think we now we've got the fan base and, and that level of diversity, it's all about now, how we can actually get in there and draw them out, you know, and, and keep them playing the game, you know, keep them interested in the game.

Sue Anstiss:

Two of my daughters actually were at the very beginning stages of the England pathway. And as a parent, I think it can sometimes feel that the process is really intense with them, even at that very early stage. And you clearly see girls coming through every day through your work at team bath and with the roses? So do you feel the girls coming through the pathway now are having as much fun in the sport as you did when you entered all those years ago? Quite a few years ago.

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah. That's a good question. I think, like you say is, I think life as a young person has taken a lot more sea these days, not just in netball. And I actually think that not enough is done around that space, to be honest with you, to help, give them more support, more scaffolding you know, just more ways and to grow their own resilience and mindsets around the pressures that they face. We still have a, a massive drop off in, in the sport between the ages of 13 and 18, a lot more needs to kind of be done in and around coaching environments, school environments. So I think England netball have a part to play in how that can be done as well, moving forward.

Serena Guthrie:

This is something crazy came out last week around 42% of, of children they're suffering from mental health since COVID so that's, that's a huge, huge issue. Isn't it?  A huge challenge that we need to tackle and everybody has to tackle it. And if you've got a young child wanting to play for England, or just wanting to, just to play netball they need support. And parents have a part to play in that as well. And that's something I'm quite passionate about in terms of parent education and language that's used around your children and actually how that can really affect how they think about themselves. And, you know, it's, I think it's really important that if we're letting our children go into these amazing environments to develop themselves as athletes, that we also need to take the, the mental side of that at just as seriously, right? Because if we just focus on the physical side, then it's, it's just not good enough anymore. I don't think, and I do think sport whilst it's a massive advocate for healthy living and improving mental health. I think that's also a space where we can actually build, build tools, you know, work on our brain muscles, work on that mental health side to, just to make sure that we're just as strong physically as we are mentally,

Sue Anstiss:

You sound very passionate about that. Is that something we might see you involved in more in the future? I'm just pre-empting that, it just sounds like something you might have a passion for?

Serena Guthrie:

Maybe I think, you know, I do some work for Dame Kelly Holmes Trust so it's a big topic of conversation for us, at the moment around our safeguarding you know, how we wanna protect the people that we work with and also how we can have an impact. And I think as somebody who probably will stay in netball coaching young people and, you know, and adults. And I just, I just feel like there's a, there's still a lot of scope to make inroads and to be brave enough to just do, to do something and, and build something for people to come and try, you know, and break that stigma, and make it more of a normal topic of conversation. Because whilst I had a good experience with netball, it wasn't always easy I think for me, one thing I wish that I did have was maybe some sort a space to be able to go in and, and it, and for it just to be more normalised, you know, but it's still something like, oh, we wait till there's something wrong and then we have to deal with it rather than actually be more proactive and just going, Hey, we go to the gym and work on your biceps, let’s just carve out half an hour before training and work on something else here that's going on, you know, with our mental mindset. And I think that's just something that can be done a bit more publicly, I suppose. And if I am gonna be working in those spaces, it will be something that I'll be quite passionate about, I think.

Sue Anstiss:

And you mentioned coaching there, you've obviously played, you mentioned Julie in terms of, playing at the Giants, but you've also played under some incredible England head coaches, Anna Mays and Tracy Neville and Jess Selby. How much can a coach really change the culture of a team and a program do you feel?

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah that's massive for me. I think the coach has the capacity to build a team up or break a team down, you know, and I think I've been in, I've been in teams where, players haven't necessarily got on with coaches and it's completely broken to culture, but then obviously the three you've just mentioned have been incredibly skillful at building great cultures. Peter Drucker says, culture eats strategy for breakfast, you know, and it's one of my favorite quotes because I believe in that wholeheartedly, you know, before we get on the court, let's talk about what's going on off the court, because unless you've got people that are willing to actually go to the end of the earth for each other, how can you expect to go and win a gold medal? You know? And that's sort of, the margins we're talking about when it, when it comes to Commonwealth games and World Cups and things like that, that we're preparing for. So the buck always stops with the coach. And, and they are pretty much at the driving seat of your expectations within the group. 

Sue Anstiss:

And you've been captain obviously team Barth and roses too. So how does the captain's role play out in terms of that link between the coach and those players too? Is that a, a key part of the role as you saw it?

Serena Guthrie:

It? Yeah, it's, it's a fairly key part. It's just, um, ensuring that you are that a consistent link, between the coach and play is, and, you know, you're constantly kind of switching hats in terms of what's best for the team. What's best for the players and pushing back on the coaches at times as well, which is, which is needed. They're not always right. Hate to say it, but they're not always right. you know, so it is really important that you are able to get that balance between conflict, understanding why the picture asking the right questions, and, and making sure that the team's always on kind of the same page, you know, the last thing you want is kind of, we call it corrosive corridor chat when you've got a couple of groups of players talking about things that are affecting them and not being able to then potentially come to me as the captain, because they don't think it's getting relayed properly. So it's really important that I, I'm kind of transparent in my role and making sure that everybody's heard and that all opinions matter, whether it's big or small, if somebody's thinking it, chances are somebody else is too. So just taking that really seriously, I suppose, to make sure that, everybody feels heard and valued in the group

Sue Anstiss:

And clearly a huge summer ahead. How important do you think Birmingham 2022 could be for netball in this country?

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah, again, I think it's a great springboard. I mean, it's really, really fantastic that we've had World cup and now Commonwealth Games in quite close succession. I think the world cup was a massive springboard in terms of launching ourselves into quite a new space in terms of moving England netball and I think Birmingham will be another opportunity to level that up again I think be in our own backyard and get people to connect with the team again  in that really unique, special way that the Roses do, it's gonna be really key to that and I, you know, I'm really excited to see what the group's gonna pull out there. I can't wait to see them. There's such a great group. We are such a great group and I think we've got more strength and depth than an England team has ever had.

Sue Anstiss:

And, and just finally, I do feel we are clearly gonna see you in netball in other guises in the future too. But as you look back, how do you hope you'll be remembered as a player, not just to your contemporaries, but to the fans as well too.

Serena Guthrie:

Yeah, I think I'd like to be remembered as a player who was for the fans, you know, was for the people that were around me at the time. You know, I give a hundred, 110%, and kind of never gives up really. And, you know, hopefully people could see that, through the way that I played. that's, that's all I ever really wanted to try and do is just to like, you know, never give up, making sure that you're showing these young girls that doesn't matter if you're losing that the fact that you can still push on and push through tough times is just as important. And the game is so much bigger than just the game. And I, you know, I think that's always been so important for, for me to show others, and I just hope other people could connect with that.

Sue Anstiss:

It's always a massive pleasure to finally talk to your sporting hero. So a huge thanks to Serena for taking the time to join me on the Game Changers. If you'd like to hear from other incredible female trailblazers in sport, head to fearless women.co.uk where you'll find details of all of my guests from this and the previous series. Other sporting superstars have included the likes of Denise Lewis, Kate Richardson-Walsh, Sarah Storey, and Kelly Smith, as well as listening to all the podcasts on the website. You can also find out more about the Women's Sport Collective, a free network for all women working in sport. You can also sign up for Changing the Game, our newsletter, which highlights the developments in women's sport. And there's also more about my new book Game On! The Unstoppable Rise of Women's Sport. Thanks again to Sport England for backing the Game Changers through the National Lottery and to Sam Walker, who does a really brilliant job as our executive producer, along with Rory Auskerry on sound production. Finally, thanks to my colleague, Kate Hannan, who does so much behind the scenes with me at Fearless Women.  Do come and say hello on social media where you'll find me on Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook @ SueAnstiss.  The Game Changers, fearless women in sport.