The Game Changers

Fiona Morgan: Using sport to drive sustainability

July 26, 2022 Sue Anstiss Season 11 Episode 6
The Game Changers
Fiona Morgan: Using sport to drive sustainability
Show Notes Transcript

 Fiona Morgan is SailGP’s director of purpose and impact, who's driving the championship’s commitment to a better future and a better sport.

She's been instrumental in creating the pioneering ‘impact league’, Sail GP’s world first initiative to make sustainability essential to the fabric of sport.

With nearly 20 years’ experience in the sports industry, Fi has an exceptional track record of shaping social impact strategy and delivering campaigns for some of the world's most high-profile sports brands. 
 She's worked with a host of global athletes throughout her career from tennis legend Chris Everet, through to David Beckham and Bradley Wiggins, and was also responsible for developing the commercial strategy for the London 2012 Olympic games. 

Fi believes deeply in the power of sport to drive wellbeing and to ensure a better world.

We explore sustainability developments at SailGP and they are also impacting other sports and what’s being done for gender equality in sailing and more widely across sports.

Fi talks openly about her own career in commercial sports and how she finds balance as a senior woman who’s also raising a young family along, with sitting on various boards including The Hundred’s Manchester Originals.

Thanks to Sport England who support The Game Changers through the National Lottery.

Executive Producer – Sam Walker
Host – Sue Anstiss @sueanstiss 

A Fearless Women production

Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.

Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers

Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media

A Fearless Women production

Fiona Morgan: Using sport to drive sustainability
Sue Anstiss:

Hello, and welcome to The Game Changers. I'm Sue Anstiss. And this is the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazing women in sport who are literally knocking down barriers to challenge the status quo for women and girls across society. I'd like to start with a big thank you to our partners Sport England, who support The Game Changers through the National Lottery. 

My guest today is Fi Morgan, Sail GP’s, director of purpose and impact, who's driving the championship’s commitment to a better future and a better sport. She's been instrumental in creating the pioneering Impact League Sail GP’s world first initiative to make sustainability essential to the fabric of sport.

With nearly 20 years’ experience in the sports industry, Fi has an exceptional track record of shaping social impact strategy and delivering campaigns for some of the world's most high profile sports brands. She's worked with a host of global athletes throughout her career from tennis legend, Chris Everett, through to David Beckham and Bradley Wiggins, and was also responsible for developing the commercial strategy for the London 2012 Olympic games. As I'm sure we'll hear Fi believes deeply in the power of sport to drive wellbeing and to ensure a better world.

Sue Anstiss:

So welcome Fi. And I wonder if we can start by hearing more about Sail GP.

Fi Morgan:

Yes Sail GP is,  we're a challenger sport,  a really exciting new sport that,  we're only in season three and we are the fastest, most adrenaline fueled foiling boats on the water. So it is quite like a motor sport global circuit, but it's foiling boots. So it's kind of racing, not sailing is what we say and it's nation versus nation and in shore. So really one of the big USPs about Sail GP is it's kind of that even platform, we share data. So the athletes, they believe it shows the best sailors in the world because they all know what each other are doing. We share data, there's obviously shared commercial caps on the boat. So, you know, there's no real advantage except for the talent on board. So it's super exciting again, season three and, and we're a bit different in the way we approach sport, because when we were set up by Larry Ellison, who obviously is, one of the Oracle founders and a huge tech kind of brain, he set us up differently and said, you know, there's kind of three pillars to your business. In sport it's entertainment, you need to be entertaining. You know, you're sailing and people will, will not think that we're entertaining. So what are you doing differently and that kind of perspective? Sustainability, you know, you're on the water, your racetrack is the ocean. What is sport doing for sustainability? That must be at the heart of what you're doing and obviously the last pillar is technology being a tech giant, and Oracle being a big partner is kind of how can tech play kind of a role across all of that in making the sport better and making the planet better? So really driving innovation and kind of challenging the normal side of sport and how we operate.

Sue Anstiss:

And I'm, I'm just gonna take you a tiny bit to foiling. So can you tell us about foiling as for those that maybe not be as familiar with sailing? 

Fi Morgan:

Foiling is,  there's foils on our boats and they lift out the water. So actually the, the, the objective of foiling and Sail GP is to have your foils out of the water, a hundred percent of the racing, cause it makes you go faster. So when you see it, they're like flying machines across the water. They're not really traditional sailing boats, obviously with traditional sails, we still have obviously different sails, but actually it's all about kind of getting on the foils, using the power of nature to kind of get on those foils and get up in the water. So, you know, it is, it's interesting because when people watch the sport or go to an event, they get it. But when we talk about it, it just doesn't make sense. So, you know, I, I would, encourage everyone,  it's on Sky Sports,  go and watch five, 10 minutes and I think you'll be hooked. 

Sue Anstiss:

I completely agree actually, I've watched some windsurfing recently over at Bray Lake, but they were on foils and it is, it does make me feel like they're flying. It makes you feel like you wanna go and …. And I feel it must be easy, but clearly it's not, I've been told!

Fi Morgan:

Clearly. It's not, and it's actually quite dangerous. So like you're going at that speed. And when you're foiling, I mean, you know, you really rely on nature. You rely on the winds. And we had Mika Hakkinen, on a boat in our French LGP event. And, you know, I think he went in thinking, ‘You know, I can do this I've Formula one cars. This is nothing’ His face when he came off, we have this video and was just in shock by the whole thing, just by the whole kind of the racing on water, the foiling and the nature and just the, the dramatic side of it. So yeah, it's definitely, it's definitely racing, not sailing and a spectacle, but dangerous too. So, you know, there's a lot of responsibility, and health and safety that we need to take into consideration.

Sue Anstiss:

Absolutely. And I, I love, I have watched okay, watching it on Sky and on YouTube too, and just seeing the boats cutting in front of each other, you know? Yeah. Incredibly exciting to watch with the commentary too

Fi Morgan:

And crashes, lots of crashes, which is not good, but it is good for the TV, but it's not good.

Sue Anstiss:

And you mentioned there sustainability as one of the pillars. So from you personally, what does sustainability mean to you?

Fi Morgan:

Yeah, I mean, I don't even really like the word sustainability, which is quite interesting. You'll see my title is purpose and impact because you know, in my career when you know, sustainability was siloed, I mean, that's been the problem. I think that that business has had, it's kind of sat in its own team and it's their responsibility when actually sustainability is just about doing things differently and you know, Forest Green Rover is one of the kind of sports teams I look up to and   inspire me. The road to their stadium is a different way. And that's for me, sustainability is what are we doing differently for obviously social sustainability, you know, inclusion, diversity and equity, and then, you know, kind of the better planet side, the climate and the environmental sustainability. So for me, obviously economic sustainability fits in there, but the way I really focus on it is, you know, how are we making the sport better and the planet better? Those two elements and, and using different words, I think, you know,  rebranding sustainability, to be honest and making it relevant to everyone and sport is not excluded from sustainability. And that's what, obviously my job is, um, explaining that to everyone in the bases and beyond,

Sue Anstiss:

So you talk about embedding sustainability, we’re all going to use that phrase, in Sail GP, but what does that mean in real terms day to day?

Fi Morgan:

You know, it is actually Kate Adams who is a good friend and works the British Paralympic committee. She said  a great phrase to me the other day I'm the chief conscious officer of our business. So I suppose what my role I feel I, s you need to embed thinking differently and be more sustainable in every element of the business. So HR, Operations, you know, it's not just the traditional, you know, of what you think, it's our marketing and comms team. How are they thinking about sustainability when they communicate, you know, how are our event hospitality teams? So it's really spending time with teams and explaining their role in sustainability, what they can do and actually, you know, giving them a bit of responsibility and ownership to deliver it. So not being worthy and judgemental, but really just explaining why they're important.

You know, everyone plays a part in the jigsaw. So it's taken me, I I've been here nearly two years and, and I feel like I'm making headway, but change is uncomfortable. You know, and what I'm trying to do is, is make everyone take responsibility for problems and do things differently. And some people adapt. I think the younger generation, I find a lot of our staff actually here have come into Sail GP because of the purpose and sustainability and they love what we're trying to achieve in our ambitions. So, you know, they, they wanna do things differently, but to be honest, you know, we'll get into sailing, but it's a traditional white male sport. And so there's a lot of people stuck in their ways and wanna do what they've done before, and that's not Sail GP’s ethos. So I've had to kind of, you know, it's different teams and, and spend time and it's all about people and getting to know them and, and, you know, making them feel part of the solution with you, which I love, I love working with people is fascinating.

Sue Anstiss:

And in terms of those people and the staff, obviously the athletes on the water are part of that team too. So has it been easier working with them than say professional footballers or cyclists or other athletes in terms of that message?

Fi Morgan:

Yeah, I think so. I worked a bit on Volvo Ocean race before, and I saw that sailors and, and they're on the water and the power of nature and kind of, you know, the ocean, they just see every day and it's kind of part of who they are. And so they, they inherently want to protect it? So, so like you said, I do think, you know, they are more openminded and more committed to it just because that is their racetrack and that's what they've grown up with I also think it's authentic. So I think people brands or consumers understand why a sailing league would care. you know, 70% the world is the ocean and we rely on that and, you know, we want to protect it,I think other sports, you know, it's, it's, I love seeing what other sports are doing and supporting them, but yeah, definitely sailing and water sports are definitely going first and, you know, relating the problems and solving them quicker, I would say. And, and hopefully we'll inspire the sports, by what we're doing.

Sue Anstiss:

And I was at an event for the sports construction industry last week, and a speaker painted from a sustainability charity painted what I can only describe as a hugely depressing image of what the future might look like for global sport in terms of the impact of heat and pollution and water levels and transport and so on. So why do you feel that sport's so important in that bigger discussion around environmental sustainability?

Fi Morgan:

Gosh, that's a bit depressing and sad, isn't it? Yeah, I don't like to hear that. I think, you know, I've got, where do I start with this? I think, you know, not to quote Mandela, he's, you know, all the time, but sport really has this power. You know, it, it inspires people and this problem is, is a problem for the world. Climate change is for everyone. And if people like it or not, we all need to change one or two behaviors and the world will be different. Sport and fashion will be big vehicles to educate people and help them change behavior. Because if you are, you know, favorite football team or your favorite player does something different it’s tribal fans will follow and fans will listen and fans will do more.

So sport has this responsibility and this power, you know, we're not scientists, we're not trying to scare them. And, and actually what really annoys me is when sustainability professionals paint this depressing picture, our job is hope and optimism. If we don't have hope and try and change, then God help us all. So, you know, there's a great article, that Futera, one of the sustainability comms agency wrote called sell the sizzle. And I completely resonate that.  ell the vision of what world we want to be. So don't sell, oh, you know, this is gonna happen. You know, water levels rise we'll have no, you know, tennis won't be played or be played indoors. There'll be no fans in, you know, the world cup that doesn't help anyone, you know, paint the picture of what a new way of sport could look like. And actually it's quite cool and it could be different there's loads of added value and, you know, we can do these differently and it might be great. So that's sports job, and that is what we need to do because doom and gloom, we know scientifically that's not gonna help anyone change behavior. It just scares people into retracting and saying ‘too big a problem can't cope.’

Sue Anstiss:

You mentioned last year, you launched the, Impact League. So how does that operate and what impact might that have more broadly beyond Sail GP too?

Fi Morgan:

Yeah, the impact league's probably one of the proudest things I've ever done. One of the scariest things, to be honest. So going back to, I suppose, why Sail GP was set up.  is to challenge sport and obviously have sustainability at the heart. So when I first came into role, I thought, what can we do? You know, the best thing about being a new sport is you can kind of do what you want. You know, you can kind of set the precedent and you own your team. So you have kind of a lot of control over, over everything and your, you know, your athletes and, and all of the events that you race at. So we thought, what can we control? What do we wanna do? And we set the ambition to be the most sustainable purpose driven sport in the world, huge ambition?

We're definitely not there, but I thought, what would a sport do if they want to be that for me, the athletes are this huge voice and we really want them to operate more sustainably. And we know behavioral science, I've done a lot of work on behavioral science and sustainability, works. So, especially with men, with male, with male athletes, I did a lot of work on the premier league and in football and sustainability. And we know that they will adapt well to that. So we thought let's make being good and being sustainable and being inclusive, competitive. So what does that mean?  Two leagues? So that's where we came up with a concept of kind of redefining performance at Sail GP. So performance is not just sporting performance, it's sustainability and that's social and environmental.

We want them to be these kind of ambassadors, these, these beacons in sport and people look up to them and they make good decisions and they think things through and they do things differently. So we set up a league called the impact league, ‘casue it's all about positive impact and there's 10 criteria that our teams operate against. So when they race,  say we just had a race in Bermuda, they don't just race on the water, they race for the impact league. So they're providing me data, like what are they eating? How are they traveling to the event? You know, what mentoring are they giving? Like what young people in Bermuda are they trying to get into sailing? What clubs can they adopt and, and support?  You know, what are they doing for their female athletes? They give us all this data. After the event, we have an auditor it is quite serious because again, these athletes very competitive. So you have to make sure you're kind of accountable, measurable, you know, robust. And we score them and then you come out with the leaderboard, and it is incredible. The day the leaderboard comes out, I am, there is unpopular person at Sail GP <laugh> I get voice notes, pictures.  I get protests from team CEOs saying, you know, the French team left their lights on. I saw the meeting a burger, you know, and I love it, ‘cause they care. Like they really really care and you know, we've had a season of the impact league.

So, you know, the moment in San Francisco when we were, we were on stage with Dr. Sylvia Earl and the CEO of Parly some of the biggest ocean advocates and lifted that trophy made of carbon recycled fiber from our F 50 boat. And that was the first ever trophy for the planet in sport. We call it the Pordium for the Planet. I was in tears of course, and very passionate about what I do. And I just thought, I cannot believe we've done that!  The New Zealand team won it. Imagine every sport in the world has some kind of trophy for being a good sport. Doesn't need to be environmental or, you know, like just doing things differently. We celebrate them being good because actually they will then inspire other people. They will influence their host cities and their partners and their broadcasters. So it was quite a big moment for me and, and, you know, success is other sports having an impact league and we're not precious, you know, a massive collaborator. And I think women are, we are way more collaborative than men. And that is, that is definitely, you know, what I see in sport. And so my job this summer is to go out and try and talk to other sports and try and inspire them and educate them. And I'm gonna come out with a paper on principles and how we can kind of share our learnings, with other sports.

Sue Anstiss:

And does it change though, in terms of the teams that won on the water versus the impact league? I was thinking about the Eurovision Song contest. You kind of, you've got these winners and then all the impact votes come in and it changes the order. But are they two separate presentations?  

Fi Morgan: 

Yeah, two separate leagues at the moment. Cause we thought we need to get it right. But the ultimate goal is to have one integrated championship. Although this season, if they win the impact league in an event, they get kind of marginal, you know, race benefits. So they get training time, they get kind of training incentives. So we are slightly linking it, but I will. The goal in kind of season five is season six is to have one league. So Sail GP will be that league that has both. But one of my other goals is to have two prize money. So we have a million US dollars. It's the biggest person sailing, which, I couldn't believe when I came into the sport and I want the same for the impact League, because actually, or more our teams should be more sustainable. So, at the moment we've got half a million this season, up for impact., but I want to get there to show the prioritization in sport. 

Sue Anstiss:

And you've mentioned that you are going to be out talking to other sports. So without preempting, where that goes, are there any other sports that you feel are already doing well in this space or you are having conversations with, or you can learn from too

Fi Morgan:

So many sports doing different things. You know, today I saw the Bundesleague was looking at sustainability and, and they've, they said that they need their teams to operate in a different way. I think I always look at people like Forest Green Rovers. I just think they're just brilliant in their whole approach. And they've showed being sustainable is commercially viable and can help performance. So they're a great case study of doing things differently. Obviously Extreme E, Formula E, you know, I love what they do. I love what they're trying to do. I love how they communicate. Angel City I have angel city merch on all the time. I'm so like, love the concept of their, you know, what they're trying to achieve and they're living and breathing it everything they do, the decisions they make is all based on their purpose and their goals about what they wanna achieve in women's sport. So they're in even women's sports. So there is lots of people, I think Formula One even them hiring ahead of sustainability, Premier League and again, I think we talked about it early on. I want to be that supporter of sustainability in sports and try to help each other. I don't want ever to critique them. I always think anything people do differently is great. And actually one thing we need to do better is collaborate to be honest. I think cross sectors and cross sports, we could collaborate better. And I've started speaking to Formula One like Williams and McLaren about what can we do? What can we learn? They've got obviously, some of the same materials we do in our race boats, you know. They travel their global circuit around the world what can we kind of do together or collaborate on? Or work with partners on? You know, like temporary power. We have a Greco, I'm sure we could leave our temporary power for other events to use and be a bit more efficient in how we're thinking from a sustainability perspective. So, there's a lot more collaboration I think, to be done and I'd love to maybe the impact lead can help do that across different sectors of sport.

Sue Anstiss:

Fantastic. We've all experienced some of the challenges of working remotely in the past couple of years, but you've gotten much further moving broadcasting and umpiring and, and race operations to a remote model in some cases. So I'm really interested to know how that actually works in practice.

Fi Morgan:

Yeah we did remote broadcasting before COVID. We were looking at kind of how can we use tech innovation,  with Oracle and other partners and we had a big broadcast team flying everywhere. It was very cost prohibitive. And so we did that before Formula One, we decided to test it and being sailing as well. You can kind of test these things, you know, like, and not get criticized. You kind of test it and, and, and see how it goes. So that saves about a hundred people traveling. So we have a hundred broadcast team in London. They don't go to events and it works really well. It's really sustainable. Obviously it's really efficient. And actually where we race sometimes is quite difficult from a connectivity point. So actually kind of cuts out those issues. So that's remote broadcast operations. Remote umpiring is fascinating. So a lot of the athletes couldn't believe we were gonna try this. And the reason we did is to stop flying. We're trying to stop flying staff all over the world to reduce our footprint and we're trying to stop boats in the water. So if you ever watch a sailing race or Sail GP, you'll see our boats are powered by nature. So the foiling powered by the wind, and then they have batteries that are powered by solar units on shore. But what the issue is is all the boats around them, the media boats, the team chase boats, the helicopter that they're unsustainable, you know, their engines are not clean. And so we wanted to take a boat off the water, certain boats off the water for the umpires. So we thought let's try this. You know, we've got great tech and so in, in our hosts in Denmark, we had our umpire in Tokyo and it worked <wow>. And there was no issues and, and the athletes were a little bit worried to be honest, but it worked. And I think once you do it once and build confidence, people, really kind of enjoy. And like you said, with COVID, I think that mindset has shifted like remote working is not longer a barrier. It's kind of an opportunity and people are doing more of it. So, you know, we are in every role of our business, we're trying to do more remote. Like I don't go to every event. If me, if I need to do media trips, I, I do a call with them. It's probably better. I spend more time focused talking about what we're doing. So I did that in San Francisco. I spent a lot of time to the media ahead of time doing Zoom calls and interviews and, and, you know, I don't need to be there physically. So I think it's just, again, a mindset shift and COVID has really helped but other sports need to do that more. Our biggest footprint is travel. We have so many people traveling around the world, so we need to reduce that and change how we operate

Sue Anstiss:

When it comes to working responses. There's clearly a balance to be struck between commercial income and choosing to work with partners who share your approach to sustainability and values. And I think, you know, I'm, I sat on the board of Lewes FC. 

Fi Morgan:

Very, oh, I love them too. They're great. Like, I love them!

Sue Anstiss:

They have a very public stance on changing the model around football, but it does mean there's lots of due diligence to be done around sponsors and, and partners. So has that been hard for Sail GP?

Fi Morgan:

I think that's one of the biggest challenges in sport, to be honest. We are very reliant on sponsorship at the moment and broadcast revenue. And so, you know, and host venues they all fund your sport. So without them, you can't survive. There's a kind of commercial reality to everything, you know, that we do need to operate. And actually if we don't operate, then we won't do good and we won't, you know, deliver positive impact. So that has been a challenge for me. And I think it's a big challenge for, for every sport is to get that right, to educate commercial teams. And to be honest they're still operating like in the old sponsorship model they still don't, like you said, do due due diligence and probably think through reputationally a lot of, a lot of the, the sponsorships or the brands that they want to align with.

I've spent a lot of time upskilling my commercial team. And to be honest, when I first came in, there were all men, we have more women now, cause again, I was like, this is just not great. You know, you're selling an opportunity about getting more women selling and it's all men. So spending time to upscale, talking about what to look for in a sustainability report have they set targets, what kind of due diligence like if it's hidden a website, probably not a good thing. They now are doing more due diligence and actually making me feel like a partner. So, you know, one thing you have to do is be open-minded and go in and say, I want to make this work, right?

I'm not here as a blocker because they think people, you know, who want to do the right thing are blocking deals, we need to be open- and say, we will try to make this work, but then there's certain lines that won't work, right? There's certain human rights violations. There's certain things that just are a no go. And then again, upskilling them on what reputation means because when they understand reputation, they won't make those decisions because commercially it will, you know, be detrimental in the long term. So there's a massive upskilling in the commercial side of sport. And you know, the sponsorship model is dead like that, that old sponsorship model, nobody really cares about big branding. They want to align on sustainable development goals. They want to see how we can help on their kind of gender diversity targets. What can we do together to educate people?

And I think that is a challenge, but you know, my call is to partners, broadcast responses, challenge your sports to be different. You know, don't let them not operate with inclusivity at the heart with sustainability because sports will listen to their sponsors, you know, and that will help them change better. So I think that is already happening with some sports, you know, in some brands.

But I think, you know, there can be more, um, to be done.

Sue Anstiss:

Very positive, very positive and hopeful most of us think about the environment when we hear the term sustainability, but as you've mentioned, in addition to natural resources, our future, uh, depends on social and, and economic resources too. And I spoke to Traci Edwards for the podcast and her story very much highlights how sailing has long been male dominated. And you you've obviously mentioned that too. So how important do you feel it is that we see more gender parity in sailing and, and what can, and is Sail GP doing in that space?

Fi Morgan:

I love that, um, episode actually, I listened to it recently again and, um, you know, I love her honesty and her stories of how she got there and, and, you know, kind of the, the personal stories about what kind of, you know, one of the stories, when a sponsor said to her, like, I don't want, you know, like 15 wives, I don't want 15 wives in a boat that sounds horrendous. You know, there's some but that's reality. And, and one of the reasons I came to Sail GP is yes, there's a huge challenge as a sport. We're one of the most un-inclusive sports. I would say that inside and outside, you know, but that's an opportunity to change. So there's not many sports at the moment that have an opportunity to really get gender equity at the heart and sailing, you can, you can have an equal boat and so that's what drives me is that opportunity and it's hard and it's not easy and there's a lot to do.

So, so I think you've gotta be honest about the problem in sailing, but actually tackle it head on and so not be scared to be criticized.

So what we've done is obviously internally, we've really kind of tried to develop more female voices. So we need more women to be making decisions and to be in these discussions. And that actually really, as you know, will help whatever we do externally and for our athletes. So we've got, you know, now three, um, female leaders, uh, at leadership level, which is really big in sailing. So that's about 41% increase in our kind of big representation. And, you know, we have, uh, amazing females leading our content, our marketing, our comms, obviously sustainability and, and we are driving business growth and we are challenging all the decisions are being made and trying to make them more empathetic, more conscious. So that's a big thing for us. And we do want to have 50, 50 kind of, you know, positions of responsibility as a business, but we're getting there and we've made massive strides.

So last season we set up this, this program called the women's pathway program. It's a bit different than obviously, you know, offshore sailing. This is foiling. Like I said, it's a bit like a racing car formula one  W series. It's more likened to that. So there's a huge experience gap. So our female athletes have not been on an F 50 boat,  F 50 boats, not many people in the world have ever trained or been on them.

So you can't just put an athlete, any athlete into a boat like that and expect them to do well, because the worst thing we can do is they fail. And obviously if they're female, we are judged more than anyone. So the experience gap is, is massive and, you know, probably 10, 15 years, which is quite depressing. Yes, I know I'm hopeful, but it is quite depressing. Um, and so I think our job at Sail GP is, you know, we've taken a lot of advice and, you know, there's lots of differing opinions that we're still kind of figuring out what we do, but what we thought first thing we do is get female athletes experience. So bring them into our organization. So we had female athletes, training with our, all of our national teams last season. And then we decided there, you know, we, we spoke to them and you've gotta listen a lot, you know, to the athletes, cuz they're the ones that will tell you how to get the right strategy and what they believe we should do.

They said, they're ready to get on a F50. So in Cadiz, in Spain, mid-season last season, we had the first ever full race with female athletes on our boats. Incredible. And they, and it was such windy conditions. It was pretty dangerous. It was quite scary. You know, I saw their faces, Hannah Mills, before she went on and she did look slightly petrified because again, you're putting them into this, you know, really elite adrenaline fuel racing that they aren't used to and they don't wanna fail. They wanna show, oh, everyone out there, they can do it. They wanna inspire young girls that you can get on an F 50. And they're incredible. I mean, you know, in the interviews, when they came off, it was just, it was just one of the best moments, um, of my career is feeling. We gave them that opportunity and they thrived and ever since then, so we have a female athlete on, on the boats at all time in our races.

Again, there's lots of differing opinions, but, but what we at Sail GP at the moment are just trying to give them the experience and get them in that squad to get them chose, to be on the foiling boat. Because the worst thing we can do is expose them and not give them that experience. We want them to be ready and we want them to, to, to earn their place. We want this inclusive boat with the best athletes in the world, whoever they are, you know, I would love an all-female boat, but they need to be the best of the best and, and prove that, and obviously be competing, you know, against people who have more experience than them. So we, we are doing, you know, we're doing that's elite level at grassroots. Obviously we make sure everything we do around getting young people into sailing at events, we have a program called inspire. It's always 50, 50. We always look at different backgrounds. We always make sure that we're kind of, you know, um, looking at the gender balance of getting young people into sailing. So we do that. The grassroots super important is to kind of do that. But the elite level is kind of focusing on our female athletes and, and really empowering them. 

Sue Anstiss:

Fantastic. I'm gonna take you back a little bit now, if I can do.  I'd love to talk a bit about you as a, as a young woman and where you grew up and your experience of sport, your personal experience of sport.

Fi Morgan:

Yeah. I mean, I'm so passionate about sport and I grew up in a sport mad family in Scotland. My dad was very competitive, played badminton for the Commonwealth games, tennis at junior Wimbledon, you know, so I kind of, there was quite a lot of expectation in sport, but my dad always taught me that sport has this power, you know, he's on the board of, of Sport Scotland. And he just feels that it, it is good for everyone. Good for wellbeing, just good for mental health. And so it was just embedded in who I was sport was every day watching, you know, formula one races, playing badminton, playing tennis, swimming. And so I loved sport. And then when I got older, my, my parents were all lawyers. And so I kind of was expected to a law degree.  But then I realised I can have a career out of sport.

And I did my law degree because I was gonna be Jerry McGuire. Right? You know, I can do this. This is me and so, you know, from that moment on, I thought sport could be my career and my passion. And I think that makes you good at your job. So, so that was it. You know, I did, uh, I did my law degree in Scotland. and then I I'm quite brave. I decided to be Jeremy McGuire and work at IMG. So what did I do? I got a tennis scholarship, to Florida.

Sue Anstiss:

You did that after your law degree? Ok I….

Fi Morgan:

And I was like, I'm not being a lawyer. I'm not being a boring lawyer. What I decided is I was a tennis player, not very good as a junior, so don't, don't quote me on that. Wasn't very good. But I did play for Scotland. I'm proud of that. You know Judy Murray was one of my coaches. So…

Sue Anstiss:

You and Judy Murray. Yeah.

Fi Morgan:

An inspiration. She was an inspirational female, you know, for me growing up, I travel with her and, Andy and Jamie, you know, and, and, you know, Scottish tennis was actually brilliant, you know, no one even knew it, but we were brilliant. So, so I was a tennis player. I wasn't very good. So it's 16, you know, I didn't play full time. I made that decision, but I still played a lot and I coached world class juniors. So when I decided to be Jerry McGuire, I thought, what do I do? I do an American degree. And I use my sports scholarship to get there. So ultimate goal was to work at IMG. So I went to Florida, had a brilliant time playing tennis, learning about sports management in an American college, which was really interesting because obviously they're so far ahead of us in the business of sport.

So I learned, I learned so much and I landed a job at IMG. I as a woman, we always say, we're lucky, but actually now, and I feel like for my daughter and for my team and for women that hopefully will, I will help inspire them to be better. Is I made that happen? Right. I did that. I wasn't lucky, you know, I was determined and I went and got that. So I got a job in IMG, in Miami working for my first boss was a formidable female, but an inspirational female, Chris Evert, like you said, so I didn't probably know how brilliant she was because she wasn't quite my era. I was more Steffi Graff, but I worked for her and she's my first boss. And, you know, I worked around her personal kind of management, you know, her sponsorships as well as running her foundation and her  charity events.

So again, that's where my power of sport for good probably grew it and my passion kind of developed. So yeah, she was a brilliant, an amazing mentor, she was a business woman, she was feisty, she was determined. She was focused. She was everything. And I probably did learn a lot of my grounding, you know, and, and for my career from learning from her and so inspiring to see a female kind of in the boardroom, you know, she would take on anyone and she wouldn't be care if they're men or women. And I love that. And so, yeah, it was a great start to my career. And then I've done some amazing jobs and worked with some incredible people. Everything from, like you said, the Olympics to working with some of the best British talent in the world, you know, like Louis Hamilton, spending a few years, working with him and what an incredible human being, yeah, I I've had a brilliant career, but, and I was thinking this morning, what kind of questions he'd ask me? And some of the things I, I probably don't talk about a lot, but my dad told me when I was young, you know, be unexpected.

 So as a woman, you know, you know, and I, and I listen to some other podcasts about people saying they need to be authentic. I think as a woman you're judged, right? Anything you do, and a woman in sport, you're very judged. And I always have been myself. I'm very authentic. You know, I'm wearing a blue suit today. I wear dresses. If I want, I wear color, I wear heels. I am who I am. And I am never gonna change that. But you then get judged and people don't expect you, people, people, you know, I've even had women in my career say to me, ‘you've got a law degree?”, you know, and it's really, really …but it is Jesus's but that's the world we live in, you know, other women saying to me, oh, you've got a law degree. Like, because I have fun because I wear color because I am myself, does not mean I'm not good at my job.

So I've always been uninspected and I'm fine with that. I've, I've made peace with that. And that is my weapon because people will, you know, not think I'll deliver, but I will show them, I with substance, but I'm not gonna change who I am. And I love other women that do the same is I don't feel like I need to dress differently or conform or act like a man. I never will. And I, I think that's my advice when I speak to, you know, I mentor young women in sport and you know, that is my advice that be yourself and be brave and confident and just, you know, shut them up with substance. Cause you'll show them, you can do this, but don't let people judge you and don't care if they judge you. They'll do it anyway.

Sue Anstiss:

You mentioned your time at sky. So I wonder how did you come to, to join sky in the first place?

Fi Morgan:

So yeah, probably one of my best jobs ever has been sky. I'm so proud, you know, to, to have worked there and it came about because,  it's a funny story. I sold sky sports, a roof. at the Olympics. So at Westfield, when I was working there for London 2012, you know, I was there to do all the, the sponsorship and  the marketing around the Olympics. They said, you need to raise your own money. You know, you need to go sell stuff in the shopping center to get the money, to, to do what you want to do. 

So we sold rooftops because obviously we are the best view of the park. And my first deal was selling sky sports, a roof. And then when I was at 19 management, David Beckham, we had a deal with Sky. So I'd always kind of kept in with Sky.

When I got to know them, you know, a few of them said, you're such a sky person, you've got this kind of, you know, challenger attitude, you should really always, you know, come and think to work here one day. So Robert Tansey, who was one of my clients, um, for the David Beckham deal, when I decided to leave 19, he came to me and said, this is a job at Sky. You know, I really think you'd be great at it. And he came to me and said, you're a Sky person, come and come and see. and so that's where it all happened. And, you know, they threw me at the deep end, you know, my sky interview, this is classic Sky first interview, go and meet Dave Brailsford and sit in a technical meeting.So I'm sitting in a technical meeting, Dave brasford, he's asking me at my advice. I don't know anything about cycling, nothing about cycling. And he's quite scary when you first meet him. Um, and it was like sink or swim. And then they took me on a sailing experience to Waymouth they said, go and meet. You need to meet the athletes. And if they like you, because your job is to kind of, like you said, change, change the face of cycling and work with the elite level, as well as grassroots and sky ride. So go meet the athletes. So I'm on a boat doing team building with, um, the, the most amazing cyclist in the world. Not know they don't know who I am, I'm just parachute to in not even introduced. And I'm just kind of in this boat going, oh my goodness. Anyway, it was all about kind of, I suppose, can you cope with that environment?

Fi Morgan:

You know, can you deal with people? And so, yeah, that's how my, my career at sky started and, you know, sky really was formative I in my career and my thinking and some of the people who supported me and championed me were incredible, and they're not women they're men. So, you know, Andy Cairns who led Sky Sports News has been an unbelievable support to me in every way and Jeremy, Derek is a massive visionary. He was at Sky and gender was never an issue at Sky. You know, people have a bad  ep of  sky and they think that.  That's probably the only job I've had, that people didn't care about gender. 

Sue Anstiss:

And Sky obviously did so much. And you did in that role to increase mass participation in cycling for women with the Sky risdes and Breeze, but do you regret a little, that team sky didn't do more to drive the quality in the world of professional cycling? Was that a missed opportunity?

Fi Morgan:

Yeah, super interesting. I came into that role once this strategy had been set really for kind of what Sky wanted to do in cycling. So yes, when I went in the biggest missed opportunity we had was why wouldn't we invest in, you know, women's cycling because actually the money needed to invest is pretty much nothing. And we would've changed that sport. So that is something if I was there from day one and I wasn't, I came in, you know, like a halfway through the partnership, I would definitely have, have tried to, to change that behavior. And I think probably we would've definitely done it. I think it was. But again, depending on where you were, you know, was Dave Brailsford, you know, was that his vision too, you really need to kind of get in the beginning and set the vision and then go, I think if we'd done it at the end, it would've felt tokenism and we wouldn't have really changed it. 

But yes, I would've, you know, if I could go back, I would definitely look at the women's elite sport and I, I wish we could do that.

Sue Anstiss:

Um, in 2017 you moved to lead Sky's entire corporate and social purpose brand strategy as part of Sky's Bigger Picture team. So what did that role entail? 

Fi Morgan:

Oh, it's so exciting. So, you know why it's called bigger picture?

Sue Anstiss:

No. 

Fi Morgan:

So, so it's not called sustainability or CSR it's because actually James Murdoch named it, he's about, it's about seeing the bigger picture than business. And I love that and people don't understand that it was a bigger picture team. So you were there to see the bigger picture to give back, to do more in the business. And it was this brilliant kind of team of, of, of passionate individuals who again, were challenging Sky to be better in everything they do. So my job there was coming from, you know, I sat in Sky corporate under our CMO in the cycling job. And actually what we did a really good job with in Sky cycling is integrated into the brand and, you know, kind of utilise it as a, as a vehicle, like you said, to drive change. So CSR and kind of the bigger picture of the environmental campaigns is slightly being siloed. And so my job is how do we integrate it, get more kind of brand value from it and get more content out of it. So get all parts of, of Sky to feel invested in these campaigns and, and what we do. So I led,  Sky Team rescue,  one of my proudest campaigns. Again, I said a lot of proud. I am very proud of everything, but, you know, we had environmental campaigns, I led all of our volunteering. So how all of our staff, you know, 40,000 staff, how do we give a structure to let them give back and things they care about? So I led that I led the participation side of Sky. So like working with the ECB in the Hundred, that pitch, like how do we use our rights to really kind of drive participation through sports? So it was a big remit, but it was really exciting because again, at Sky you work with the best rights hold in the world, so opportunities are endless

Sue Anstiss:

And you mentioned the Hundred there and you sit now on the board of Manchester Originals. So can you tell us about that and what they're doing and why you attracted to that opportunity?

Fi Morgan:

Yeah. Manchester Original's - best team in the Hundred, I have to say, but, we, we we've set a goal to be the standout team in the hundred and, and the way we're gonna do that is to be purpose driven. So how we are gonna be the most Inclusive team. So really kind of challenge inclusivity in cricket, which is not as bad as sailing, but still challenges and we're gonna look at what can we do, I suppose, to, to change, um, sustainability and kind of, you know, the conversation in cricket. So why was I interested because we have an amazing board. So we have people like Mark Chapman on the board who is such a legend

He's the chairman of the board and, and listening to his vision about what he wants to do for cricket and how he wants to challenge. It was amazing. And actually Manchester has this, you know, as you know, and Manchester as a city has this kind of heart and this community spirit. And so being a part of that and, and having a new sport to kind of bring it to life, just felt the opportunity was right. And I thought I can add value because what I'm doing in sailing, there's lots of different, obviously lots of learnings from both sides that Sail GP are doing that The Hundred could learn and, and vice versa.

Last season was a starting season for the Hundred  it was amazing, you know, I was at the first, you know, Manchester originals were the first match to kick off the whole tournament, obviously a women's match. And that was a big moment for everyone in women's sport. And for us at Manchester originals, being part of that moment. So this season's really big. So we've just spent a lot of time with the board in setting our vision and, and setting our purpose. And we're the only team that has our own purpose and goals and vision. (Oh, wow). That is around inclusivity. So we have our own code of conduct for players. We've got female coaches coaching, the men, all of our squads are numbered one to 34. They're not numbered men and women. They're one squad, so everything we do is one squad at the heart. I think one thing that surprised me about the Hundred is, you know, these female athletes, an amazing opportunity, big stage, but they weren't ready. I mean, it's pretty overwhelming for a lot of athletes. And our athletes felt that our female athletes, especially, and so what can we do to support them? What can we do to help them and tell that story? Because that, that's the reality of women's sports sometimes, great to have opportunities, but you can't, like we're saying on the boat, you can put women, these environments and half our female athletes had jobs.

You know, they had jobs at the same time. They have families are still looking to take care of. So, you know, you really have to spend time understanding, you know, the challenges and helping support them through that. So, you know, the Manchester Originals watch this space. We're gonna make lots of noise this summer. And, you know, coming to the event, the event experience will be different. We're doing loads of cool stuff around getting young people into cricket, you know, entertainment, music, bringing master to life. So yeah, it, it is exciting. I love the Hundred concepts. I'm really proud of what they have. 

Sue Anstiss:

Well I'm excited! I was excited anyway, I'm even more excited for Hundred now.

Fi Morgan:

<laugh> Well, we'll invite you to a game, come to a Manchester game, come up to Emirates Old Trafford and, um, and see a game with us.

Sue Anstiss:

Fantastic.  Along with all the incredible work you're doing at Sail GP and the, as you've mentioned, the Manchester originals. You're also a mother of twins and you've sit on a number of boards, including PA British Paralympic association. and I think you were an ambassador for meaningful business too, so oh yeah. And you run marathons as well. <laugh> so, so how do you find time to do so much in your life?

Fi Morgan:

It's pretty exhausting. You know, I'd love to be the woman that, that sits here and says, you can do it all, but I'm quite a realist. And I think, you know, for women in their careers, you need to realise it's really hard. But I think what you have to do is, um, try not to feel guilty because you're never gonna,  be good enough in, in everything that you do, but just try to, you know, be passionate, make time for your kids. I think what I do in Sail GP, it's a global job. So I'm on the phone. Sometimes 6:00 AM till 11:00 PM on calls. My, my boss is in New Zealand. I have teams in Japan. It's pretty hard to be a mom in a global sport. And people wonder why there's not more of us but what I do do is I'm selfish with my diary, I block out time. So between four and eight, I put kids in my diary and I'm not scared to do that. And women in my organisation love, they say, please keep putting in things like the gym or getting your nails done in your diary, cause then we can do that too. And it is, it's being selfish a bit for your time because that's important to me. And I'm better at my job if I take those time out. If I pick my kids up a few times a week, if I go take my daughter Wildcats football or anything that makes me happy and better at my job. So I think that's what I try to do. I don't always get it right, honestly. It's sometimes exhausting

Just block time for yourself.

Sue Anstiss:

And, and just finally, I guess we've talked a lot about not getting disheartened and having hope for the future, but if you had to leave us with a, a final thought of what we can all do in this space, what, what would that be?

Fi Morgan:

I think it's think differently. So, so in your business, what is a challenge, an opportunity you can do so it could be gender or it could be social, it could be environmental sustainability. It could be, you know, you're working in a sport that doesn't, you know, has plastic still, or, you know, doesn't think about as environmental footprint, think about what you can change in your business, what needs to be changed and what you can change. And try to ask the questions, try to challenge things and do things differently. I think it's the whole mindset of doing things differently. It's what I want people to do. And that works across everything that we're doing, like you said, is like social sustainability, environmental, and just do one thing. You don't need to do 10 things, just do one thing. And it's a bit like the Manchester originals, you know, like I think they felt overwhelmed and inclusivity is where we can make a difference. And that's what we're focusing on. There's a lot of other things we can do, but focus on one thing, do it really well, understand it, challenge the norm, ask the right decisions. So that's what I'd ask everyone to do is what.. challenge yourself today? What can you do in your job to think differently or in your sport or in your organisation and go for it, cause what's gonna happen? Someone just says no. So just try, just ask the question, try and do it differently.

Sue Anstiss:

I really loved talking to Fi about her career and all that's happening at Sail GP. I'll be looking out for the next events on sky and also watching the Manchester Originals play in the Hundred this summer. If you'd like to hear about other women driving change across sport, do visit fearlesswomen.co.uk, where there are details of all of my guests from this and the previous series. You can also listen to all the podcasts on the website and find out more about the Women's Sport Collective a network for all women working in sport. You can sign up for Changing the Game, our free weekly newsletter, which highlights the developments in global women's sport. And there's more about my book Game On,  the Unstoppable rise of women's sport.

Thanks again to Sport England for backing The Game Changers through the National Lottery and to Sam Walker, who does a great job as our executive producer, along with Rory Auskerry on sound production. Finally, thanks to my brilliant colleague, Kate Hannon at Fearless Women.

Do come and say hello on social media where you can find me on Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook @SueAnstiss. And if you have a couple of minutes, it would be great. If you could rate or review the podcast, as it makes a big difference to help us reach new audiences.

The Game Changers, fearless women in sport.