The Game Changers

Radha Balani: How sport changes women lives across the world

July 26, 2022 Sue Anstiss Season 11 Episode 4
The Game Changers
Radha Balani: How sport changes women lives across the world
Show Notes Transcript

Radha Balani is a much-respected industry professional who's having a huge impact in the sport for development arena.

Radha started her career in the university sports sector before working for leading organisations in sport, including the Football Foundation, Women in Sport, London Sport, and now as co-Managing Director of Think Beyond.

It’s a fascinating conversation as we explore the world of Sport for Development and how sport can be used intentionally to transform the lives of women and girls. 

We explore Radha’s diverse career in sports leadership, and how organisations like BUCS, the Football Foundation and Women in Sport are driving change for grassroots participation. 

Radha highlights the growing trend for athletes to use their profile to drive social change whilst still competing and we also touch on the need to recognise the mental health issues facing many elite athletes today.  

Thanks to Sport England who support The Game Changers through the National Lottery.

Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.

Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers

Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media

A Fearless Women production

Sue Anstiss:

Hello, and welcome to The Game Changers. I'm Sue Anstiss and this is the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazing women in sport. These are the women who are driving change and knocking down barriers to challenges, status quo for women and girls across society. 

I'd like to start with a big thank you to our partners, Sport England, who support the Game Changers through the National Lottery. 

My guest today, Is Radha Balani - a much respected industry professional who's having a huge impact in the sport for development arena.

Radha started her career in the university sports sector before working for leading organisations in sport, including the Football Foundation, Women in Sport, London Sport, and now as co-Managing Director of Think Beyond 

Radha, can I take you right back to your student days at Loughborough and what led you to Loughborough in the first place?

Radha Balani:

So when I was 14, played in a hockey tournament there and they were all walking around in shorts with their collars up and sunglasses on, on this incredible campus, that was unlike anything I'd seen before. And I, that was where I was going. The moment I heard it was the best for sport, it was like, that's where I'm gonna go. The only sort of adjunct to that was, I also had a bit of a desire to go to a, um, a college in the States, but actually the actual academic parts wasn't what I wanted out there. So yeah, Loughborough was the only one I was really interested in, the other five that went on the UCAS form were just to fill the form out, quite frankly,

Sue Anstiss:

Very similar, very similar. And you mentioned hockey there. So how much was, was sport a part of your life growing up?

Radha Balani:

It, it has been and remains the fundamental core of my life. It's the way that I learn to communicate with my dad. It's the way that I have navigated, being in a world that doesn't necessarily feel like it was for me. And it's where I've had the best experiences and the worst experiences of my life. And that's been everything from, you know, as soon as I got home from school, getting out the school uniform into shorts and t-shirt getting down the rec and just playing all the way through to actually taking it seriously, being part of lots of teams playing in lots of different matches, four or five, six matches a week sometimes across different sports. And it's also what I watch, and I love, and now I get to work in it. So it's absolutely a fundamental part of who I am.

Sue Anstiss:

You mentioned your dad there and that relationship with him. So was he a sports fan?  Or watching sport together?

Radha Balani:

I mean, both my folks, are…my mum's more into sort of fitness and health and my dad is super sporty and I was, I think I was four and he was watching a football match on TV. And I was basically being a pain and I wanted his attention. So he sat me on his knee and he introduced me to football and he introduced me to the fact that we are Liverpool fans. He was in the Merchant Navy and his first experience in this country was docking in Liverpool. And so it was the Liverpool V Chelsea match and Liverpool won, the first live match he and I went to was also Liverpool Chelsea, as it turns out. And you know, something like that, alongside, I remember him sitting me down and drawing, a tennis, court and explaining the rules of tennis to me.  Alongside both my parents just really wanting me to be part of all the different clubs and organisations, partly because they wanted me to be part of, we lived in a very white part of the country. And then the other part was they were running a local business working every single hour that was available to work every single day of the year, including Christmas Day. So I needed to be doing something cause I was a slightly energetic child, shall we say? I broke a lot of arms, very young. So I was in all of the clubs as well.

Sue Anstiss:

And you say that sport made you feel, did it make you feel included in terms of that community?

Radha Balani:

You know it did and at points it didn't I think the older I've got, the more excluded sometimes I've felt because I'm more conscious of it. But definitely in terms of giving me an identity, when, you know, you are young and you are searching for those sorts of things, it, it was crucial from that perspective, being able to do stuff with my time when you live in a sleepy village was also part of it. You know, me, I quite like an audience, but I'm not great at growing up. I wasn't great at one on one conversations, I found them really difficult. So being able to have them on a pitch with people and just be at a training session with people was a really, really fundamental part of my social life.

Sue Anstiss:

And you mentioned the academic side there of your studies, you and I studied the same course,

Radha Balani:

Sports science and English? Amazing.

Sue Anstiss:

So what drew you to, to study that books and games? As my brothers told me.

Radha Balani:

Running and reading was the other one I got given. Um, I always wanted to be a sports journalist. That's what I thought I wanted. I love, love words. I love literature. I love the exciting things you can do with words, spoken, written that changed the way people feel. And I am obsessed with sport as I think is clear. And I really, honestly, I wanted to present Grandstand. I wanted to write, for the Guardian for the Observer. And I got to the end of my first term at Loughborough and I hadn't written one thing for the magazine and I thought, is this really what you want? And actually I realised it probably wasn't. And I guess before that, I'd already seen that there was this thing at Loughborough called AU President. I remember seeing it in the prospectus and I remember thinking that's what actually what I want before I'd even got there. So I think I was ready to go on a slightly different trajectory.

Sue Anstiss:

It's so interesting. Isn't it as a by way of reflection is I don't think I was ever really aware of the AU Presidency. And I look back at the people that have been president, isn't it amazing. And the roles they've gone on to do. So I obviously missed that in the prospectus but, you obviously did that and you were Hall chair as well too. So what do you think you learned about yourself in those roles?

Radha Balani:

If I look back at it now all I can really see are early indications of things that I wish I picked up sooner if I'm being honest if nothing else, the one thing I think I've learned is that I need to trust that I have the ability to make people care about something that I care about it is pretty tough to get elected at Loughborough, people are quite tough, but actually it's a, a passion thing that I think has, if I look back on it now I can see all the way through my life internally and externally. My job is about, is about making people excited about what's possible and asking them to buy into something. And so I think that I can look back and say, okay, I really learned that.

I also learned, and I can, again, I only see this in hindsight, how I poorly when I was younger, dealt with stress.  I learned that I really do like being put on the spot. I like performing under pressure. I like the environment of hustings and and being able to think quickly about things.  I really like being in service and I think that that is something that's come from my parents.  and all, all of us, my sister, myself, mum, dad, we we're, we're all about being in service. And that's a really big part of, I guess, our family.

Sue Anstiss:

You went on to work at what is now Bucks, so British University College Sport.  I recently heard a phrase I loved that, ‘sport enables accelerated friendships. So what else do you think sport offers young people in further and higher education?

Radha Balani:

So I think there's sport for sports sake that offers a place where you can either feel really included or really excluded. I think it offers an identity, it offers answers to questions like, I dunno what to wear out this evening, oh, we're all wearing the same T-shirt that's okay, I don't need to worry, but I, I think that sport has as much to offer as it has to take. And therefore it's about our responsibility to use it with intention, um, and to protect it because I think we've seen it both ways, you know, I've, I've absolutely felt part of because of sports and I've absolutely felt entirely alienated by it. It's available to give people a load of things that it will automatically do, you will learn a set of skills, but I don't subscribe to it being magic. I really don't. I subscribe to the intentional use of it being utterly remarkable and when done well, I have had the privilege of seeing it change lives, but I don't think that should take away from the, the, the pure joy of just playing, you know, and, and I don't necessarily mean putting on a full kit and going and playing. I mean, being in the park, shooting hoops and hearing the swish of the ball go through, I mean, doing keep ups on the driveway and you get a new number. The joy of that is also just that stuff still gives me goosebumps. 

Sue Anstiss:

Your love of football took you on to the Football Foundation. So can you tell us more about the organisation and your role there?

Radha Balani:

I actually took a, sort of, I guess, a sideways, backwards step from BUSA, now, BUCS to pay cut, to go to the football foundation. I played 5, 6, 7 sports all to county level. But I think, you know, football was the one that I, that I stuck with. And, and I was part of football at a fairly formative part of its growth, in terms of the year, the decision was made that girls and boys couldn't play together was the year that I turned the age that that separation happened. So I played for one of the first ever girls teams in the area, and I always knew that I wanted to work in football. So I took that, that step back as it were, but it led to a number of steps forward. So I had had about five different roles there, starting as a small grant project manager, all the way through to head of communications and corporate relations.

And really my role there was when the Football Foundation was responsible for the community granting, that it did on behalf of the FA , the Premier League and the government. 

So largest sports charity in the UK, really was about providing facilities and then supporting the development plan that goes on those facilities. And that was a, that was the majority of it. But the area I worked in, the area that I was passionate about was the role of football for change and its ability to be part of the solution to some of the most challenging issues in the world. And so my role there was to be part of that, to help shape that, but then also to close it down when it was taken in house by the Premier League. So I guess I got to see full circle.

Sue Anstiss:

And why do you feel football can be so powerful in changing lives?

Radha Balani:

I think, I think it's a scale question. It's a scale and, and simplicity piece. I actually think that every single intervention, whether that's sport, art, music can make a difference, but it is the scale and the universality of a sport that fundamentally just has the ball, and that ball doesn't have to be a real one. It can be rubber bands tied together. It can be a hacky sack. It can be made from trash. So I, I think it's about the scale of it that allows it to, to be the one that's used more often than anything else. But I think what we're seeing now in the role of sport for change is a broader variety of sports. So that, you know, particularly in this country's football comes with baggage, it comes with baggage about who you support and where you are from. Whereas if you bring a new sport into the mix, without that baggage, it's going to engage some of the people that don't want to engage in football. So I'm pretty sport agnostic. these days, I feel like it's anything and everything, and I, I can get completely taken in by dance and snooker and tiddly wink and sitting and seeing how many times I can throw a playing card into a bucket as I can by the Champion’s League Final and everything in between.

Sue Anstiss:

It's interesting. Isn't it? You talk about that baggage that football comes with, and there's no doubt that men's football, especially in the UK, has many of those negative components in, in my mind, often stemming from the hostility and, and tribalism that's so central to being a fan of the sport. I, I wonder whether you think the women's game will be able to flourish and thrive without those elements?

Radha Balani:

I think it's showing us that it can, I think it's showing us a space for families to enjoy sport together. One of my colleagues here, he sent me, he was, he's a big Arsenal fan and he was at the last game of the season. and they were playing, the women's Arsenal teams live match in the bar sort of in the back of the stands before the game. And he sent me a little video of hundreds of men watching this game wrapped at the quality of it. And he just sent ‘love to see it.’ And I think that's also what we are seeing is the quality of the football that's being played, it is, I think it's remarkable and I don't, and I, and I say that because I think that the quality has changed because we have professionalised it not because it's women and girls playing, right? Will it thrive? I think with the Women's Euros, I think we are gonna see something really different to the men's. We might see an equally powerful, uh, set of performances that take us to the final and hopefully win, but I think that the atmosphere and the tenor and the tone of things will be different and that's just because it is different and doesn't need to be the same.

Sue Anstiss:

It's interesting that part on quality isn't it. I’m sometimes wary myself of talking about the improvements in quality now, because I don't wanna be negative about what's gone and that's whether that's cricket or rugby or football or any of those things, but there is no doubt with additional funding and training and all the support that goes around that of course, the quality is going to move forward too. Is that where you've seen the biggest, shift you think in the game from when you were playing at university? 

Radha Balani:

Oh my gosh, in so many ways. What I love is when I hear pundits criticising women's players, that's what I love. Cause then we are talking about them as athletes and their performance is being criticised in the same way that the men's Premier League performances are criticised. I like that we are there.

It's, it's a totally different game for when I played everything from the sort of pitches we played on to the boys' kit that we wore, which was not designed for a woman my shape, or a girl my shape, to… I remember going to see an FA Cup final at, I think it was at Oxford's United ground. And then I, and I remember that Channel 4 were there and they'd taken some footage and there was a 30 minute piece on Channel 4 about it. And I, this is, showing my age Sue, I VHS recorded it, and watched it over and over again, because that, that was all we got, you know? And, and so it's changed at the grassroots level all the way through. And I think it's, I think it's great.

Sue Anstiss:

It is interesting isn't it when you think, you reflect back, it's not that far, as you say, not far ago and suddenly they're at Wembley and the crowds are as they are. You moved on from football to then work at Women in Sport as head of Insights and Innovation. So for those that don't know, a little about, about women in sport and the role they play.

Radha Balani:

Sure. So for a long time, Women in Sport were  a research based organisation and, and they still are, research and campaigning around, you know, the data that sits behind women's engagement, all act thereof across sports, the qualitative insightful pieces that help us understand what drives that, whether that's personal, cultural, social, environmental, and then what interventions can those that offer sport put into play in order to ensure that every woman and girl,  anyone who identifies as female can reap the benefits that sport when as well has to offer. It's always about trying to remove that first layer of friction, that means the opportunity is either not there or delivered poorly that first, that first sort of instance. 

Sue Anstiss:

And obviously a lot of work of, you’ve mentioned there has been focused on participation in girls and young women. And yet the statistics very recently released were so depressing more than a million teenage girls in the UK, 43% who considered themselves sporty then became disengaged in sport following primary school. So what do you personally feel are the, the biggest, most significant reasons for this?

Radha Balani:

You know, I, I think I would hate to be a young kid right now in this world with, with the ability to see a set of lives that your friends are living or otherwise that they put out on social media that you don't know it's true or not that there's a level of anonymity in criticism that can exist. And that sport is fundamentally about an expression of your body that is able to do things in a world where bodies are criticised, left, right, and center, and in a world that is built by men and still driven by men largely. So it sort of doesn't surprise me with all of those external factors that you take the path of least resistance. And unless you have brilliant people around you that give you wonderful experiences, that includes failing as, as much as succeeding. I mean, it's hard to fight against a, a whole set of really powerful external factors that, that, that are, are ready to criticize and therefore you can't really be authentic. 

And if nothing else, sport is about authenticity and being in the moment, I think that was one of the reasons I just didn't have the talent or the temperament to get as far as, cause I couldn't be in the moment. I, I just, I didn't know myself well enough. So on the field of play, I was either on the past that I'd just messed up or the one that I was gonna mess up in the future or the report in the paper the next day, I wasn't it took me a long time to learn how to be where I was in that moment. Just thinking about receiving the ball and where the next pass is gonna be, or where's my position where when I'm in goal for hockey or what, whatever it was. So it just, I think, I think that there are too many external factors that bring challenges in.

And listen, there there's loads of stuff around how school sport has been decimated there's loads of stuff around, the fact that families are having to make some of the most difficult choices in the world right now, do we have heat? Do I feed my children? Um, that young people are scared that war is on our doorstep. And what does that mean for us? You know, we, we grew up in a time of relative peace and this is new for young people that haven't had our experience. 

So I think the whole world is challenging for young people growing up. The quality availability and provision of sport to be in a positive outlet for that is always gonna be inconsistent across the board because of the number of people engaged in it. And that it comes down to people. 

Ultimately, all of this is about people.  I got really lucky at my state village, tiny secondary school that we had the most incredible male PE teacher who absolutely insisted that we all played football, rugby, hockey, crickets, and that we all went to county trials and that they would drive us around everywhere and that we would go and watch matches and we would go on tour and that we would get international players into our tiny little state school that hadn't, I don't know, 200 people in it.

 

Sue Anstiss:

So do you feel any optimism that things will change in the future? Cause it almost feels like it's this impossibly huge shift and I'm talking more specifically for younger girls and teenage girls moving forward.

Radha Balani:

Yeah. I, I, I do because I, I feel like the shift is coming from women for women a bit some of the most challenging people I've worked with have been other women and that makes me sad, you know, but I do think that certainly with athletes these days, the ones that are really talking about who they are as humans and how they feel in their bodies and what does that mean to them and, and how, you know, someone like Molly Thompson Smith, who's so proud to be strong and, and, and share that strength.  I think that there are a greater number of broader role models that are offering space for women and girls, but I think there's also a greater understanding that movement, sport can be whatever you want it to be. So the, the sort of funnels that we went down, perhaps as, as a kid, aren't there and is it okay for, you know, if someone just wants to go for a walk that counts that counts, it's not better or worse, it counts. It's what you want it to be,

Sue Anstiss:

Without expecting you to be the global expert on everything, but you've obviously worked across the world and I wonder how sports, female sports participation and teenage girls changes or is different, um, across Western countries in particular, but also in the us and Australia. Is there anything we can learn and implement around what they're doing do you feel?

Radha Balani:

Where sport is statutory, countries are successful, where you invest and you see it as part of education as not only a necessary part of the body moving to allow the brain to re-energize to understand that not everyone learns by sitting and listening to, to recognise that there are physical learners out there. That's where I think there's there will always be greater impact. Where sports sits in the culture of a country is,  is always a good indicator of what you are going to see. I think that how a country views sport is fundamentally how it is delivered to young people in schools. And, and we can pretend that it isn't, but if we really, really look at our back pages and then we look at what what's on our phone and what's available, it's sort of there, isn't it. 

Sue Anstiss:

Yeah. Fascinating stuff

Sue Anstiss:

And alongside your more traditional office based career, you also maintained a bit of a career teaching fitness out and across London. I was really interested to see. So I guess, what is it about teaching that you have enjoyed?

Radha Balani:

You know, I think at my heart of hearts, I've always been a coach of some sort always seeing  the potential in people and being quite analytical. So sort of seeing how things could improve. And I was, I've always been quite loud. You've met me, um, <laugh> and, you know, I was team captain and, and that sort of stuff. And I think that that naturally led to coaching badges and things like that. And then I got fairly seriously injured, when I was 20 and all of my competitive playing stopped at that point. So I haven't broadly, haven't played team sports competitively now for 21 years. I did take up an individual sport later in life, for a seasonal or two, but I, I think through the rehab process for my knee and the various operations that I've had on it, I fell in love with the gym in a way that I just didn't have it as a kid because I was at various training sessions.

And it, it gave me that little stage that I needed, and I didn't realise, but just the ability to be an instructor that looked kind of different to anyone else, different color, different shape that was about strength and technique, not about an aesthetic that I didn't have,  but that I got to start my day every day, engaging with people and having fun and training in the morning and then putting a suit on and going to the office. It was great. And it was, it was just extra pocket money that I didn't expect. And that was fun.

Sue Anstiss:

I'm intrigued to know what your other sport was that you did

Radha Balani:

I picked up power lifting and I did one season as a competitive power lifter. And to my point earlier about when I was younger, not being able to be in the moment, the work that I've done on myself from a mental health perspective in lots of different ways, I could see,  standing on that platform for each of those lifting competition I was able to go there and do that lift in the moment, knowing that that was all I needed to think about in the moment. And, and I was able to do that and, and, you know, have, have some sort of mastery of my mind that I didn't have when I was younger. I, I loved it. I'd forgotten how competitive I was. Hadn't really forgotten that to be fair, but I, I've never been in a sport as collegiate as power lifting, no one ever wants anyone to fail a lift. Every single person wants you to succeed in every single lift you do, because ultimately it really is just about you and the bar and what you can do with it. It was a really friendly sport to be part of.  I'm really glad that I did it.

Sue Anstiss:

And why did you stop?

Radha Balani:

Because I changed jobs.  And I came here to Beyond Sport, at the time and Think Beyond, I worked for both of them to start with and now I'm really firmly Think Beyond.  An international role with lots of travel. And the thing about power lifting is it takes time, cause you've gotta rest between these sets, to let the central nervous system, come back. So I had a really great first season. I, I was number one in London, in my weight category, three in England and in top 10 in Britain. And that was probably on brute force and ignorance versus much technique, to be honest, but, 

Sue Anstiss:

Just thinking what you could have done with the technique!

 

Radha Balani:

Exactly, exactly. But I also think that six knee operations is more than enough. I might need to stop

Sue Anstiss:

<laugh>. So tell me a little more, if you can, about your current role with, with Beyond Sport and Think Beyond.

Radha Balani:

So we are a global sport, social impact and sustainability consultancy. We work in sport and through sport. So we help sport do what it does better in terms of making a positive difference in this world, getting its own house in order, in terms of the environment that it lives in and what it does to that environment and how it is commercially successful, safe, full of integrity. So we work in sport to make sport better, and then we work through sport to change the world. Whether that's for athletes, rights, holders, brands, international governing bodies, federations, major tournaments, and everything in between, and really at the heart of it, we’re strategists and really good project managers and great communicators and storytellers. And we have recently, brought on board an incredible woman called Dr. Suzy Thompson, to really lead our sustainability work. 

So now we are able to look at sustainability as a whole, as all three parts of that store, social, environmental, and economic, and apply that through in the lens of sport. So, you know, how, how do we get sport to be better? How do we use sport to make a difference in the world? 

My job is so varied, Sue, we do time sheet through a consultancy, I look back at my day and I'm like, I've had the weirdest day. It makes no sense. 

So one, you know, I might be running a workshop for a client. I might be writing a press release, for the opening of a safe space. I might be briefing the CEO of a major football club, for a TV interview, might be sitting down and doing a one-to-one with a member of staff, might be working out how I can coach five young leaders from the States, even though I don't know their lives and everything in between. It's, it's a, it is a really varied, fascinating job, I’m really lucky actually.

Sue Anstiss:

And I spoke to you as I researched my book, so thank you for that. And it was fascinating to get a better understanding of sport for development and how it differs from perhaps what we've perceived in the past as sports development, which you alluded to a little bit. So, can you talk us through that.

Radha Balani:

So sport for development is about the other outcomes that we are directly delivering sport to achieve. So whether that is around gender equality, whether that's about, health and hygiene, whether it's about teaching young people, how to be safe around remnants of war in Cambodia, whether it's, about HIV and aids awareness, or whether it's about nutrition wherever there are challenges in the world when harnessed appropriately and delivered  in a way with that offers brilliant curriculum, we can teach other things through sport. 

Part of that is about the inherent things that sport allows us to bring to the table. Sometimes it is just that sport is the engagement piece and creates a space where conversations that would otherwise be difficult, are more able to take place. Sometimes it is about finding common language. Sometimes it's about demonstrating the change, whether it's, you know, you are playing a game and then you put a rule in that says anyone that's wearing a red t-shirt, can't go past this line. How does that change your ability to play that game? Okay, what do we learn from that? How does that come together? You know, it, it can be things like that, but it can also be something like surf therapy that is used to help young people deal with some significant mental health challenges. 

So, you know, sports development is growing the sport for sports sake, more people playing.  Sport for development is about the change we make in people's lives, and we're intentional about it. And then the results and change in society that comes from people changing.

Sue Anstiss:

And why do you feel that sport for development is so important specifically for women and girls?

Radha Balani:

Because the playing field and by that, I mean, the world is so unequal, it’s so unequal in so many ways. The fact is that there are many countries still where women do not have the same rights as men. And so what better way to demonstrate the impact of inequality by taking a game that has a set of rules that everyone plays with and then changing the rules for one person, but also it, it changes the role that women play in society. There's an amazing NGO that I absolutely adore called Free to Run. They use adventure sports and outdoor sports to engage with women, who have been affected by, or are living in conflict zones. 

The visibility of a woman running in Afghanistan adds some agency and legitimacy to that woman's in society, that the answers to peace and conflict resolution will come from women being at that table. And so we have a responsibility as sport to showcase the capacity and the capability of women where we can. And it's not better than men. It's absolutely that we are in this together. And we'd like to play our role because we have a role to play.

Sue Anstiss:

And you're also working with many high profile, former athletes. You mentioned Molly there earlier. Well, current and former athletes who are now using their platforms to drive sustainable social change. So do you think that's a change we'll see more of a trend we'll see more of in the future?

Radha Balani:

Definitely. And I think it's happening earlier in, in players' careers, much earlier. Often, it was, as part of retirement and the what next, but actually what we're seeing and certainly from some of the work that I've been lucky enough to do with UK sport and the athletes I've spoken to through that, things that they care about now and recognizsng that they have the platform to do something about it. And for, for some that's about advocacy for some that's about action and both are important. Often it depends on the nature of the sport law playing, um, the type of support you have financially, to do so.  What sort of space and, and bandwidth do you have for this? 

But also, I think there's a greater understanding that athletes are whole human beings. I remember one athlete told me, I don't remember the last time someone asked me what book I'm reading, you know, that I am a whole human being that I have, and yes, I am training myself to perform optimally. But part of that optimum performance is about seeing me as a whole human person. And that is every part of me in the stuff that I care about and my value set and where I exist in this world and what my identity is outside of the numbers that I post. 

And I think that with a widening narrative on authenticity, on mental health, on, on belonging, you know, we talk about DNI. The next narrative is belonging. I do I have to change myself to be in this space? Cause if I do, that's fitting in, that's not belonging. Can I bring me as I am to this space? And I think that as that narrative continues to grow both in the workplace, out the workplace in society, I think we will see more and more athletes bringing their whole selves to the table. And that will ultimately mean that what we are hearing and seeing more of them do some of the incredible things that we've seen from the likes of Kate and Helen Richardson Walsh, Tom Daley, Tanni Grey Thompson, Michael Johnson, you know, a million others that we can all name. And I love that it's a million others that we can all name because before it wasn't, it was one or two back in my football foundation days, there are a couple of key players that would always show up and they'd always be brilliant. Um, but there are only a couple,

Sue Anstiss:

And you've mentioned kind of the mental health of athletes there too. And I know you've spoken very openly in the past about your own mental health struggles over the last 20 or so years. How are things for you today and then what's helped you?

Radha Balani:

You know, I feel incredibly lucky that I have been able to get the help that I did and sometimes the odds were not in my favor to get that, and sometimes I didn't get it, but I can look back on 20, the last 20 odd years and see that I probably wouldn't have been ready for some of it when I thought I needed it as well. I took three months out at the end of 2019 to go into a residential trauma  and eating disorder facility in the States I've been in therapy for 20 years.  I recognise and know that there are things that don't help me in this world. And some of those things include, alcohol. I don't drink, you know, I haven't had it in for almost eight years and I know that there is a set of medication that I need to take that keeps me in a place where I can make clear decisions every day with the right intentions and I can treat myself in a way that is nicer than perhaps sometimes my head will tell me. 

So, you know, I take medication every day for, depression, anxiety, ADHD, and complex PTSD. Those are non-negotiables that I write a gratitude list every night and I share that with three other women and those are non-negotiables, and we share that and suddenly I'm sharing the detail of my day with other people. And so when things are difficult, it's a little bit easier, but for miss stubborn over here to pick up the phone and say, ah, and actually I still struggle with that, but these women now know me so well that when my gratitude is become a bit monosyllabic they pick up the phone and say, um, what's going on? And, and it's just, you know, those sorts of things that my non- negotiables, I remain in therapy to this day.

And I talk about this and I create a space every single day for everyone in, our team here at Think b

Beyond to give me a number out of ten, to check in, to send me an emoji, to send me a gif, to send me a word. Some days people use it some days they don't, some days, some months go by and some people won't use it, but every single day, I consistently offer that out so that everyone knows there is a space that is nonjudgmental, that is confidential and that is theirs. And I, I will drop everything if someone says they, they need that space. And, and I've been fortunate enough that people have trusted me with things because that space has been there and they might never have sent me a check-in number in their lives, but they will say, Rhad, can I have 10 minutes? And then we'll have a conversation. 

Sue Anstiss:

So in terms of advice to other employers, I mean it feels like Think Beyond and Beyond Sport have created that inclusive supportive environment, where you find yourself there and clearly you are contributing to that too. But what advice would you give to, other employers in terms of caring for staff?

Radha Balani:

Openness and intentionality about it? It, it can't be a poster on the wall saying call EAP. It it's around, it's two parts. It's about creating an environment that doesn't drive poor mental health, but also one that can cope with those that are having mental health challenges, whether they have been driven by a work scenario or not. It's not a simple thing. And I think when workplaces can consider mental health in the same way they consider physical health, it it's a slightly different narrative. And I would say that here, me going and saying, I, I need three months sick leave when actually on the outside, it probably didn't look like there was anything wrong to be so warmly given that time, supported all the way through, welcomed back with open arms and I have I've gone on and, and done so much more as a result of it.

But also that workers allowed me to be open about what it was, you know? And so in here pretty much everyone knows and, and that's fine because just, it's not something I ever heard about as a kid and certainly not from my background and I don't, I didn't look like the archetypal person that had the challenges that I've had. So to contend with that as well, and to be able to say it , if nothing else, it's just an act every day of me showing some faith in myself, even if I don't feel it. 

Sue Anstiss:

And we saw some really sad research last week that highlighted a significant often hidden prevalence of anxiety, depression, and eating disorders amongst female footballers competing in WSL and the Championship. So do you feel we're doing enough to protect the mental wellbeing of elite sports women and men?  

Radha Balani:

I think you could just take away the profession for a moment and just consider these people as optimum performers and if we consider it from that perspective, I'm not sure that any businesses have got it quite right. So we consider them as people working at the highest level in what they do. How does that predispose them to these things? And what can we do to then put in place a set of support networks that allow them to be safe? I think sport, as much as it's saying it is in a different place with this, I'm not sure that it's necessarily living up to it and I still think there are still beliefs that, um, you can't let anything get in the way of performance and that performance is everything. I don't know. It's, it's a really good question Sue, it's a really good question. I wonder whether actually my answer is, I just don't think anyone's good enough at it because it's so complex, can we create conditions where everyone can be themselves on a good day, bad day and in different day and when it's bad, what can we do? Maybe it's, maybe it's more simple than I think

Sue Anstiss:

And, and talking about it too, isn't it? I think that, although the research made me really sad when I saw it, at least it’s out there and perhaps having that conversation and, and people recognising they're not alone in their bubble of where they exist

Radha Balani:

And recognising what sits behind them, what sits behind an eating disorder has nothing to do with food. Right? why are some of our young footballers trying to seek control from elsewhere?  and is the football environment, the elite football environment causing them to feel as though they, they have no agency over their life. So they're gonna take control here. Those are the big questions that actually need to be spoken about. And those are the ones that people don't wanna talk about. It's really easy to turn an eating disorder into something that's about food and, and weight. When it, when it is nothing to do with that,

Sue Anstiss:

That's such a good point, such a good point. I'm glad I asked you that huge question at the end there. and finally you've already achieved so much across your career, but I just wonder what does the, the future hold for you as you sit and look ahead?  

Radha Balani:

I'm, I'm really excited about the fact that we've been working in this world of social impact, sport , shared value. Um, and we've been doing this for 5, 6, 7 years, and now we're starting to see the rest of the industry come forward. So we have a wonderful opportunity here to really, really harness the experience and expertise that we've built up alongside, Beyond Sport with our global network and then alongside, um, Dr. Suzy Thompson and, and the expertise she brings to us to truly, truly continue to raise the bar in terms of sports' role in this world and sports' role as an industry. 

And I'd really like to think that we can bring others with us along the journey. I don't think it's just us. I think there are other people that need to be part of this, that push us to be better, that we push to be better. And that if you're a rights holder, a brand and an athlete, a professional sports team, club, league that you recognize your role in and of yourself as an organisation, and you recognise the opportunity, you have to make a difference in the world and you recognize how valuable that is to the bottom line of your business. 

And then we bring it all together under, under one space. And I'd like, like Think Beyond to continue to lead in that space, but I'd like other people to come and play in the sandbox to not scared of competition. I think it makes us all better. 

For the kid that probably still wants to present Grand Stand and I still do wanna do that. I guess what I see the future as is almost all of those bits that I love doing, facilitating a conversation, creating a space for people to say things that they didn't even know that they thought and then to sew it all back up for them, with a set of ideas that they can go and use to change the world. I just wanna keep doing that. But most importantly, I wanna do with people that are brilliant and I feel really lucky to work with brilliant people who push me to be even better and who I have an opportunity to, help them find who they are as their whole selves and bring their whole selves to work

Sue Anstiss:

As always, it was such a privilege to talk to Radha and I thank her for her incredible openness and honesty in all she shares. If you'd like to hear about other women driving change across the sport, do visit fearless women.co.uk, where there are details of all of my guests from this and the previous series. You can also listen to all the podcasts on the website and find out about the Women's Sport Collective a network for all women working in sport. You can sign up for Changing the Game, our free weekly newsletter, which highlights the developments in women's sport. And there's more about my book Game On, the Unstoppable rise of women's sport.

Thanks again to Sport England for backing The Game Changers through the National Lottery and to our production team at What Goes on Media, including executive producer, Sam Walker, and Rory Auskerry. Finally, thanks to my brilliant colleague, Kate Hannon at Fearless Women.

Do come and say hello on social media where you can find me on Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook @SueAnstiss. 

And if you have five minutes, it would be great. If you could rate or review the podcast, as it makes a big difference to help us reach new audiences.

The Game Changers, fearless women in sport.