Esme Morgan & Charlotte O'Neill: Leading the way in women's football

In today’s special episode of The Game Changers podcast, we talk to two trailblazing women from Man City Women – Esme Morgan and Charlotte O’Neill.

Lioness Esme Morgan was a lifelong City fan who joined the club at under 15 level and quickly progressed through the regional talent squad into the Man City Women’s first team. 

She’s featured throughout all youth levels of the England national team set-up having first been called up to the under-17 England team in 2017. Esme won her first England senior cap in October 2022 and was included in the FIFA Women's World Cup squad in 2023.

Charlotte O’Neill, Managing Director of Man City Women, is a former England and Super League netballer who held key positions at British Swimming, the Olympic Games in Beijing and London, and the Rugby World Cup before joining Manchester City in 2015. 

As Director of Operations and Development, Charlotte oversaw strategic direction and delivery at Man City’s Boys’ Academy and was appointed Managing Director of Man City Women in December 2023.

The Man City Women’s story combines success on the pitch with continued progression off the field, as the club continues to break new boundaries, playing a significant role in the growth of the women’s game.  

It was fascinating to hear from these two incredible women as they openly shared their career stories and experiences at Man City as the club celebrates its 10th professional season in the WSL.

A big thank you to Nissan, a long-term partner of Man City Women across the past decade, for sponsoring this special episode.

Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.

Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers

Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media

A Fearless Women production

Transcript

Sue Anstiss: 0:05

Hello and welcome to the Game Changers. I'm Sue Anstiss, and this is the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazing women in sport who are knocking down barriers and challenging the status quo for women and girls everywhere. Before we start, a big thank you to Nissan for sponsoring this episode with guests from Manchester City Women. Nissan's been a long-term partner of man City Women across the past decade in the WSL. Man City Women are currently playing their 10th season as a fully professional team, having officially relaunched in January 2014. Their story combines success on the pitch with continued progression off the field. Having won the Continental Cup in their first campaign, City's gone on to win eight domestic trophies. These achievements have also left a significant mark on the international front, with 12 members of England's Euro-winning squad being City players. The club is constantly looking to break new boundaries off the field and has played a significant role in growing the women's game. Today, I'm speaking to two game-changers from Man City on and off the pitch.

Sue Anstiss: 1:17

Former England and Super League netballer, Charlotte O'Neill has held positions at British Swimming, the Olympic Games in Beijing and London and the Rugby World Cup before she joined Manchester City Football Club in 2015.

Sue Anstiss: 1:30

As Director of Operations and Development, Charlotte oversaw strategic direction and delivery at Man City's Boys Academy and was appointed Managing Director of Manchester City Women in December 2023. Esme Wogan was a lifelong City fan who joined the club at under-15s level and quickly progressed through the regional talent squad into the Man City first team. She is a Lioness who has featured throughout all youth levels of the England national set-up since she was first called up to the under-17 team in 2017. Esme won her first England senior cap in October 2022 and was included in the FIFA Women's World Cup squad in 2023. A huge welcome to you both and I know our conversation will move on to consider both of your roles at Man City today, but I'm really keen to understand your journeys into sport and I wonder, Charlotte, can I start with you? I'd love to know how sport was a part of your life growing up.

Charlotte O'Neill: 2:32

Yeah, thanks, sue. So we are a really, really sporty family. My dad was a boxer, my mum, she swam, she horse rode, she did all different sports ,my sister netball, I played netball, horse rode. My brother played football, did karate, boxing, you name it, I think. For a number of years my mum and dad were just taxi drivers, really ferrying us between the various different clubs. But sport's always been a huge part of my life and I feel super lucky to have been able to take that into from a hobby into my career and make all those amazing friendships that you do along the way and have those great experiences. So, yeah, really, really lucky.

Sue Anstiss: 3:11

And how was it? It's interesting my dad was a boxer and my mum swam as well too, so it's got similarities there. But how was it that you came to netball? How did that come to be this kind of sport that you most focused on?

Charlotte O'Neill: 3:22

Well, as a child I was very fortunate to be quite, I suppose, the classic sports person who did every sport. So I had an athletic scholarship, I did netball, I did tennis, hockey and all these different things. Horse riding and netball became the ones that I really excelled at and, as I think most people would appreciate, netball was a lot cheaper than horse riding so it ended up being easier to go down that route. But I was one of those early developers. I was really tall in primary school and then I stayed the same height pretty much throughout my career. So yes, netball was something.

Charlotte O'Neill: 3:58

I was lucky enough to go to an amazing primary school and secondary schools who both had really strong netball programs Broxbourne School in Hertfordshire are known as one of the best schools in the country for netball and that just happened to be my local school. We had an amazing junior club called Turn of the Third, who again are one of the best in the country as junior clubs in netball. So I suppose, fortunate to live in an area where netball was really big, all the older sisters played for the netball club and went to school and played for the netball team and I think I just followed on and it's just such a brilliant sport because you only need your trainers, it's really accessible and you can play all year round, and then you've got the camaraderie. Like football, you know, team sports will just give you so much. You make friends, you travel together, you're there on the cold, wet nights together or the long days at summer tournaments. And yeah, just for me, I just absolutely loved it.

Sue Anstiss: 4:52

And obviously the pathway's changed a lot the England pathway now today and similarly the Netball Super League as well. We've seen those progressions. But you played for only Captain Loughborough in the Super League as it was then. So how much have you seen that change now from, I guess, the outside, 10 years on?

Charlotte O'Neill: 5:09

Yeah, I mean when I was playing a long time ago, we mainly had full-time jobs and we trained around it. So we were training in the gym at Loughborough in the mornings and then we would do netball in the evenings after work. And having to take time off from work to travel to away games, taking holiday, et cetera, or having work be incredibly flexible to enable you to kind of train like a full-time athlete but also having another job alongside, so it was really tough. But you could see at that point that there was a change in the perception of women's sport. We got the Sky deal so our games were televised and that was amazing.

Charlotte O'Neill: 5:46

So we weren't professional, but more and more services were provided to us. We had physios and strength and conditioning all those things you'd never had before. That was all paid for. Your travel was paid for. You weren't having to drive around the country yourself and share petrol money between you. We started to see it turn in that corner. Share petrol money between you, so we started to see it turn in that corner. And obviously when you get broadcast, you get coverage. Then there's more partnership, sponsorship comes in and you could see that we were at the start of something really special For me. My career then started to take off while I was playing and I had to make those difficult decisions to kind of focus on one thing. So I'm fortunately retired from Super League at about I think it was 25. But I've still got teammates who are still playing in the Super League, which is incredible. So, yeah, I'm really proud of what Neville have achieved in those 10 years, for sure.

Sue Anstiss: 6:36

Yeah, and where it's going now as well too. So, esme, in terms of your entry into sport, what was your kind of family life and an attitude to sport growing up?

Esme Morgan: 6:46

I loved it and I just played at every opportunity. Really, I can't ever remember a specific time. You know people ask all when was your first time when you played football? I can't remember. Just as long as I can think back, I always have, and my dad likes to tell the story that I'd always throw a bit of a tantrum if they wanted to take me on a walk somewhere, but he'd say, no, it's all right, we'll take the football, and then I'd be off. So they'd just kick the ball in front of me, I'd toddle up after it and, just like a dog really I suppose, just kept playing fetch with the ball. But I just always played sport in summer holidays and stuff. Obviously, mum and dad would be working throughout the whole time. So me and my little brother just went to sports camps every day and and played different, different things throughout. So, yeah, just loved it. And what?

Sue Anstiss: 7:33

are your memories of seeing man city play? As a family, were you fans of the club?

Esme Morgan: 7:39

well, that is my first life memory. It's my first ever city game, um. It was in 2003, the first season. They moved into what's now called the Etihad um and they beat Bolton Wanderers 6-2 at home. Um, and I just remember it being so noisy. My mum had little cotton wool balls to put into my ears to protect me from the noise, because obviously the crowd for little three-year-old ears was a bit too rowdy. But we always, when my brother got old enough, he started coming and even now we've all got season tickets together still Me, my mum, my dad, my brother and my uncle. So throughout all this time we've always sat together and obviously seen a lot of success in recent years, which has been really good fun.

Sue Anstiss: 8:26

That's fabulous, isn't it? And as a player, how old were you when you realised that you had a kind of real talent, above and beyond, perhaps, others around you?

Esme Morgan: 8:34

I don't know really. I just always played on the playground at school with the boys. There were no other girls who had any real interest in playing football at infant school and primary school and so I played with the boys and the local team on a Saturday morning, played sometimes on a Sunday games when we got a little bit older, and so I was just always surrounded by them and growing up. Obviously boys are a lot more physically developed and so it was always quite even in terms of my level with them. I was never one of the best players on the team, but I suppose I probably drew attention to myself being the only girl.

Esme Morgan: 9:14

But it was maybe only when I got into the first team at City that I thought I've done quite well here. But I'm not really someone who's like that. I kind of just go on to the next thing and take opportunities in my stride and I don't really stop to consider what I've done in the past, probably something I'll do when it's far too late to appreciate it all properly. But yeah, that's kind of just me. I kind of just get on with things in life and don't really put too much thought into it at the time and what was your journey into the academy itself.

Sue Anstiss: 9:47

So how did that come about?

Esme Morgan: 9:49

Well, as I said, I played with my local boys team and I was with them until I was 15. And City put an advert out on the website, which my family are always probably keeping an eye on, and my dad saw um, the advert for open trials, and so I signed up. You had to sort of submit your football experience and mine was just Ecclesall Rangers local boys team, um, and then I got accepted to the trials. So I went in the first year. I didn't get in and I was absolutely gutted, so I just went back, played for my boys team for another year and then the following year I trialled and managed to get in. So yeah, I was so excited.

Sue Anstiss: 10:29

But it made me laugh Charlotte talking about her parents being taxi drivers, because the amount of miles my dad racked up taking me over to Manchester from Sheffield is ridiculous and I was going to ask you what it felt like then and I guess this is for you and for your family too when you did eventually run out in a City shirt, for them to be there and see you in a City shirt.

Esme Morgan: 10:52

Yeah, I think my mum was definitely in tears. I was just dead giddy. I remember we played against Yeovil away, so it was quite a long trip for mum and dad to have made, but obviously when I got onto the pitch they were really pleased about it. I think I came on for the last 10 minutes and I was just so giddy afterwards and beaming and they were so glad they'd they'd gone down to see it and obviously every time that I've done it since I think it means a lot to me being a City fan for my whole life, but also, as you say, to my family, from then going to watching the men's team for years and years, to watching their own daughter playing in the women's team, is really special and something that makes me really proud and obviously, judging by your GCSE results, you have been able to balance sport and education, and I know we'll talk to Charlotte a bit too in terms of that academy support and setup there.

Sue Anstiss: 11:47

So what has it been like to be able to manage those both elements of your life really?

Esme Morgan: 11:52

Well, when I first got into City's RTC, that was when I was doing my GCSE. So I remember around exam time I'd just bring flashcards and I'd just have my dad sort of half driving, half testing me on all my flashcards to do my revision on the way to and from training. And then when I got into the first team I actually ended up moving to Manchester properly and moved in with a host family and City was so supportive with my education. I moved into the college which is next door to the training ground, so a couple of days a week I'd be off training and I'd go into college, and then the rest of the time I'd just quickly hurry my lunch down after training and then scoot round to college, sometimes come back and do my gym later and things like that, and they organized tutors when I missed out on things to catch up and that was while I was doing my A-levels.

Esme Morgan: 12:46

So it was quite a stressful time because I'm a real perfectionist and I know that I was always capable of getting good grades. So I didn't want to sort of let myself down and not achieve that. So I put a lot of pressure on myself to make sure I was revising hard and, yeah, in the end I did get all the good grades that I wanted, so it was worthwhile, although my head felt like it was going to explode a bit at the time.

Sue Anstiss: 13:11

Are you obviously now quite well established within the England team. So what was that pathway like? How did that start out for you?

Esme Morgan: 13:23

I don't think I don't know whether it's changed, but at the time you couldn't get selected for England youth teams while you were playing grassroots football.

Esme Morgan: 13:27

So it was only when I got into the RTC at City that I was actually available for England selection and just a couple of months into it, really, I got called up to the under 17 team and it was quite daunting at first because a lot of the girls had been in the setup and for a longer period of time and they'd been around the RTC, or centre of excellence systems, as they were called at the time, for years and so they all knew each other and I was kind of this raw, scrawny kid who'd just come from grassroots boys football and I had a lot to learn and there's so many technical details that I picked up so quickly coming into the academy system because obviously the caliber of coaching was just so much greater.

Esme Morgan: 14:09

But I just absolutely loved it because I felt like I developed so quickly coming into that city academy environment and then into the England youth teams and what I loved about it was just and say how quickly I progressed and meeting new people so many of the girls I've not played with since, some of the youth age groups. But then when we see each other at WSL games and catch up, it's just so special and I suppose that's what I love most about football is just the friends you make and the connections you have with people, and being around all those different teams expanded those opportunities so much.

Sue Anstiss: 14:44

And Charlotte. I am interested, I guess, from a netball perspective and not having had that opportunity that we now see in football. How do you feel? You obviously feel joy for the footballers that have that now, but is there an element of frustration of what might have been if we'd have had that in netball when you were playing? Do you think you would have continued on that pathway?

Charlotte O'Neill: 15:03

I mean, I don't know, but I think for me it's always about looking forward, to looking, you know, to the future and what we can achieve. So for me, you know, I think netball has made great strides, as has women's football. I think we are at the base of the mountain. There's more to climb, but I feel like we've got all the resources to do it. The wind is blowing in the right direction and, without talking to too many career shabbies, but I'm really positive about where the netball and women's football, women's sport in general, can go, because we've shown that with the right resources, with the right coaches, with the appropriate facilities, that women's sport is only going to get better and the product itself, the skill level, is incredible now.

Sue Anstiss: 15:48

So, you know, like I said, I prefer to look forward and not backwards and, obviously, as you say, through not being on that path, you then went on to have this incredible career within sport and you've had the most extraordinarily broad experience of working across sport, with roles at organisations like FINA, gb Swimming London 2012, rugby World Cup in 2015. So what was it that you enjoyed about working on those really major sports events?

Charlotte O'Neill: 16:13

Yeah, I think, if you look at what a major sport event is, it's a load of diverse people with all their different areas of expertise coming together for one common goal, and you are effectively like a family. The hours are so long, the deadline doesn't move, so you're all striving for the same thing, you all want the same outcome, and I think there are a lot of industries or organizations where that isn't necessarily the case. And I think there are a lot of industries or organisations where that isn't necessarily the case. So with major events, it's super clear and you're wanting to put on the best World Cup or the best Olympic Games ever, and therefore, in many respects, the diversity of the staff is really celebrated. The in-goers are at the door because you all want the same thing.

Charlotte O'Neill: 16:54

I think it's probably the closest thing I could get playing sport, because it's all that. It's the teamwork, it's the teamwork, it's coronary, it's being with each other when times are tough, when you're tired getting to know how each other responds, when you're tired getting to know how you get the best out of each other, and so that was, for me, a fantastic transition outside of playing sport. It gave me a lot of the same things, I suppose.

Sue Anstiss: 17:21

And what was it then that brought you to football and to Manchester City? Because that is a bit of a shift from those big major events, isn't it?

Charlotte O'Neill: 17:25

Yeah, I think, from a role point of view, two things. One is the sad part about working on major events is you establish and grow this amazing team. You all get to know each other. You deliver something incredible together and then the whole thing finishing this. And then you all have to know each other. You deliver something incredible together and then the whole thing finishing this and then you all have to go and find new jobs and you all wave goodbye and people disperse across the globe. So that's like the sad bit. And when you've done that a few times you see, oh, that's such a shame, because it's like having a team that wins the league and then the next season the team's disbanded. You know you want the chance to do the repeat and to go again and to build.

Charlotte O'Neill: 17:58

So I really wanted to work on something where the work that we did would only build and build and build to play for something great. So the role really appealed to me at City. And then the other thing was the specific role Director of Operations and Development at Boyd's Academy. You know the way I saw it. It was helping young people achieve their dreams and doing that every single day talented young footballers, young people and helping them fulfill their sporting ambitions and dreams and also helping them become better people.

Charlotte O'Neill: 18:30

And Esme mentioned about her GCSE results and her A-level results. So we used to use Esme at the Boys Academy as proof that it was possible to, if you'd look into it, that you could achieve academic excellence, and that's something that I'm so proud of. In the eight years I was in the Boys Academy, our academic results are outstanding, and that's because we've raised expectation of what was possible and, rather than kind of going down the route of, oh well, you, you know, something has to give, it is possible to do both, and the skills that, like Esme talked about, like you know, being dedicated, being organized and you know, and coping with the pressure, are all things. I think if you get those, um, if you get that under your belt, when you then are fully professional, they will really stand you in good stead for the rest of your career.

Sue Anstiss: 19:21

And it's obviously been hugely successful. The man City Boys Academy. Are there learnings from that side that you'd like to see coming into the Women's Academy too, I guess, and vice versa?

Charlotte O'Neill: 19:31

Yeah, I think in any elite environment there's always stuff that you learn and you can translate across.

Charlotte O'Neill: 19:36

So in our Boys Academy academy, historically, we've had more resource, and that's something that, then, I'm really keen to do on the girls' side to ensure that our girls can train the amount of sessions they need to for the length, with the quality of pitches, with the quality of coaches.

Charlotte O'Neill: 19:49

They're all things that our academy are now shifting with the leadership of Carol Bardsley, which is amazing. But then there's also some of the core things I learned weren't necessarily about sport, and we have this big mantra in our boys' academy which is better people make better man city players, and that's something that I really believe in and that we will do the same in the women's is that if you're lazy in the classroom or you have poor standards and you're rude and you're disrespectful, then it doesn't mean that when you then move over to our men's first team, you're all of a sudden going to be an outstanding professional. So all the things that we worked on, I think, are now bearing fruit, and it's so refreshing to hear Pep talk glowingly about our boys' academy graduates and how professional they are, how keen they are to learn, how determined they are and how hard they work, and they're all the things that I think will, will and do translate over into our girls' academy.

Sue Anstiss: 20:42

And we're obviously celebrating 10 years of man City in the WSL this year, so I am fascinated to understand more about the changes that you've both seen with the women's side across that time. So, esme, you've obviously experienced it firsthand as a player. I think you joined was it 2014? You joined as a under 15. It's a full decade really, but what changes have you seen at the club in that time?

Esme Morgan: 21:05

Yeah, I think this is my night year being sort of involved in the club since I came into the academy. I think I joined the year after the inaugural season of man City Women and I suppose one of the most obvious changes to me having been the number of people coming to watch every game. I think when they started I was just a fan. I used to come and watch as a supporter with with my family, and it was over at the regional athletics arena at first and I think they got maybe several hundred people, whereas now we're consistently getting a few thousand and obviously going to games at the Etihad and getting 30-40,000 people coming to watch, which is amazing. And the other thing, I think, is the standard of player and the standard of, as Charlotte said, the product that's being put out there. I think every single year it improves.

Esme Morgan: 21:55

We've got young girls now coming into the team who've had female role models, who've known it's a possibility to have a career in women's football, which we I mean myself, I didn't really until I actually had it. I always tell Steph she was the first women's footballer I'd ever heard of. I first watched her at the London 2012 Olympics and that was my first awareness of women's football at 12 years old, and now there's girls coming through who've been watching it and inspired by it since they were three, four, five, and so I think the standard over the next few years is only going to keep improving because the coaching as well, further down the pyramid, is so much stronger and so there's so much talent coming through that the product is only going to get better, and I think that is something that has developed hugely in terms of the pace of the game, the physicality and the technical ability of players involved. If you speak to people like Steph and Demi, who've been there the whole time, they'll tell you that themselves. So, yeah, I think the product's just really grown.

Sue Anstiss: 23:00

And Charlotte, obviously you were appointed Managing Director of man City Women last year, so huge congratulations on that. I wonder if you can share a little bit of the day-to-day activities. What does that role entail? Such a prestigious role for the club? I know that's a huge ask, isn't it? But really, what does that role entail?

Charlotte O'Neill: 23:17

It's very varied. So at the moment, the key priorities are, obviously, we're on a title race, which is a huge privilege to be part of, so doing whatever we can to support the team. I met with Esme and her teammates last week to say, look, if there's anything you need or whatever we need to do, we're going to do it. You know we want to give them every opportunity to win the title and it's a privilege to be in that position. You know there are teams at this stage who you know the season has kind of unfolded and there's not much to play for.

Charlotte O'Neill: 23:48

So, yeah, we've got a title race, planning for our tour, pre-season tours, warm weather, training camps, working on the new training centre. We'll just have planning permission approved, which is incredible Everything from building the squad for the new season, supporting our staff, helping everyone get better. So I would say that's what I learned about the job. It's so varied but ultimately, the single goal is we want to be the best women's club in the world and in order to do that, we have to be the best at everything. And it's working with all my colleagues within the women's program, with Esme, the team, the coach, captains, et cetera.

Sue Anstiss: 24:28

Anyone that is involved in our program is about aspiring to be the best and then working every day to improve what we do and obviously you mentioned the kind of planning permission and developments there, but can you tell us a bit more about the women's home stadiums, the joy stadium, and and why that feels like from the outside? It's been such an essential part of the club's development?

Charlotte O'Neill: 24:47

yeah, I think it think it's amazing. Having your own stadium obviously brings with it so many benefits. It's not just on the commercial side, with food, beverage and controlling the product that you put out there, but also being able to bring in fantastic partners, so Joy, who are the naming rights partner for our stadium. They're not a sponsor, they're a true partner. They're working with us on, for example, example, our buggy and pram store. They're working with us on the breastfeeding areas and all those things that make our stadium family friendly. So having your own stadium means that you can move quicker in terms of making it much better environment for everyone to come and attend, and so it.

Charlotte O'Neill: 25:29

It's a huge advantage for us because I've just been in a meeting earlier today about our fan experience and we've got independent experts helping us to improve that. Having your own stadium, it feels more like home. I think Esme would agree. They're in those change rooms all the time. They're familiar with the pitch, you're not holding to anybody else, you've got flexibility on the scheduling, but you know, most importantly, our fans and our supporters. We can make sure that every day we're working to ensure that they have the best possible experience. So, yeah, we're extremely lucky and grateful to have that facility. We're extremely lucky and grateful to have that facility.

Sue Anstiss: 26:08

I was going to ask you then, Esme, in terms of you as a player and the team, what that means to have that facility.

Esme Morgan: 26:15

Yeah, we love it. I think right now it's the perfect size, because when there's full stands at the Joy and it's a good game and the crowd are getting behind us, the noise is incredible and you might look at it and think, oh well, it's only 7,000 people, but it can get loud and it really lifts the team. When everyone's sort of getting behind us and we really enjoy playing there Like Charlotte said, it being our own place and not sharing it with the men's team as a lot of WSL clubs do, it also just means the quality of the pitch is is great, which, as a player, is something we really value. That's probably why we've had so much success in terms of our results at home over the years. First and foremost, because we have the support of our crowd and it's an amazing atmosphere for us to play in, but also the quality of the facilities there are the best in the league really, so we're very, very lucky and you can hear.

Sue Anstiss: 27:12

Can't you obviously see that that manson has been such a huge trailblazer for women's football in the uk and and globally, and I suppose it's now good news. It is good news that we're seeing other clubs upping their game too. So I just wondered, charlotte, do you see a future where the women's game will ever be on a par with men's in terms of the visibility and crowd sizes and broadcast rights, sponsorship, etc. Either at man City but more broadly across the UK?

Charlotte O'Neill: 27:39

Yeah, I don't see why not. We've made great strides. We are starting further behind. I suppose it's the right way to put it. There's no reason why we can't catch up. And I think what's great is we are celebrating our game, our women's game, and it's so right. And our supporters club, for example, our man City Women's Supporters Club. They have men's and women's season tickets. They watch both teams and they enjoy both games equally. So of course, we have huge aspirations for where women's football can go and man City we want to be leading the charge, so super excited.

Sue Anstiss: 28:17

It is exciting and, I guess, looking forward to the future of women's football. How do you see, without giving everything away, but how do you see man City continuing to move the game forward and be a trailblazing club, as you have been?

Charlotte O'Neill: 28:29

Yeah, I think you know, as I said earlier, we want to be the best in everything we do. So we have to make sure that, from a football technical point of view, our programme is you know is world class. We have to make sure that we are recruiting and retaining the best players. But, you know, a huge part of that is our girls' academy and our pathway, and I would say, like say, we are putting a really significant focus on our girls' pathway. Esway is a prime example of what having an excellent academy does for you. You're putting slynesses so they don't come along every week, but I think it would be fair to say that our investment in our academy investing not just resources but our expertise in our girls' academy means that we want to consistently produce a pipeline of first-team players from our academy, whilst we would always be out in the market looking for the world's best. That's outside of our programme. But yeah, absolutely that's a huge focus for us. But ultimately we want to be the best in everything we do.

Sue Anstiss: 29:28

And Esme, I guess finishing there in terms of that, creating lionesses. It's obviously been an extraordinary few years for the lionesses, with the Euros win and the World Cup etc. Last summer. So how excited are you for the impact that success is having more broadly, so bringing girls in to football, but also more widely in society and across women's sport?

Esme Morgan: 29:49

Yeah, I think it's really special the number of people now who recognise the Lionesses, and I think it's such a huge brand. Being a Lioness is a really prestigious thing and I think that's really recognised now. And obviously it's amazing seeing the respect that those girls got for women's football when they were the Euros. But also, I think women in society can benefit in general from women being successful and be shown to receive respect. It can spread throughout and I think that's really important and just young girls and boys being able to see people from their nation or people from their favourite team being successful. I think it's inspiring and, like I say, having role models to look up to is really powerful and being able to follow your passion and follow your dreams and try to achieve what those who've gone before you have done, I think is something that, as a young person, is really special and, yeah, it's really just useful having people to be able to look up to, who've been successful, who were once in your shoes Absolutely.

Sue Anstiss: 30:56

Well, fantastic. Thank you so much to both of you for taking the time to talk and I kind of wish you well, esme, with your kind of playing career and Charlotte, with all you're doing at the club and the growth of the club too. So, yeah, for the next decade in the WSL. Thank you so so much for taking the time to talk to me. Thank you, thanks, sue, thanks so much to Charlotte and Esme for taking the time to talk to me, and thanks also to Nissan for supporting this episode.

Sue Anstiss: 31:27

If you enjoyed the podcast, there are over 180 episodes featuring conversations with women's sport trailblazers that are free to listen to on all podcast platforms or on our website at fearlesswomencouk. The whole of my book Game On: The Unstoppable Rise of Women's Sport is also free to listen to on the podcast. Every episode of series 13 is me reading a chapter of the book. The website is also the place where you can find out more about the women's sport collective, our free, inclusive community for all women working in sport. We now have over 7 000 members from over 90 countries who meet online and in person at events and benefit from a very engaged LinkedIn group, regular newsletters, regional hubs and opportunities to attend key industry events.

Sue Anstiss: 32:17

Thank you also to my brilliant colleague at Fearless Women, Kate Hannon. Do follow us to make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, and if you have a moment to leave a five star rating or review, it will be fantastic, because it really does help us to reach new audiences. Come and say hello on social media, where you'll find me on LinkedIn, twitter and Instagram. At Sue Anstiss, The Game Changers. Fearless women in sport.