Steph Houghton: Lessons learnt as a captain of club & country

This episode of The Game Changers was preiously released on July 7, 2020.

Captain of the Lionesses and Man City, Steph has represented her country at every level, with over 100 appearances for England.   

Steph’s also led Man City to two Women's FA Cups, three Continental Cup successes and the FA Women's Super League title, as well as landing the PFA’s Merit Award in 2019.  

Representing Team GB at the London 2012 Olympics, Steph became a household name by scoring in all three group matches, including the winning goals against New Zealand and Brazil.   

Steph proudly led the Lionesses to their World Cup semi-final last year in France, watched at home by almost 12 million viewers. 

Abbie Ward. A Bump in the Road  a powerful documentary, chronicles the remarkable journey of an England rugby player as she battles back to the professional game just 17 weeks after the birth of her baby in July 2023 and then to secure her place back in England’s Six Nations squad for 2024. 

Watch now
UK on ITVX: https://www.itv.com/watch/abbie-ward-a-bump-in-the-road/10a5679a0001B
Worldwide on RugbyPass TV: https://rugbypass.tv/video/6069

Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.

Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers

Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media

A Fearless Women production

Transcript

Sue Anstiss: 0:58

Hello and welcome to The Game Changers, the podcast where you'll hear from extraordinary women in sport. I'm Sue Anstiss, a founding trustee of the Women's Sport Trust charity and the founder of Fearless Women, a company with a powerful ambition to drive positive change for women's sport. I am thrilled to say that, once again, this series of The Game Changers is supported by Barclays and will focus on fearless women in football. In each of the eight episodes, I'll be talking to a trailblazing woman, reinforcing Barclays' huge commitment to the beautiful game. In 2019, barclays announced the largest ever commercial investment in women's sport in the UK. The Barclays FAWSL is now Europe's first fully professional women's football league, and their investment will also help the future growth of the league and its clubs. Along with its fantastic support for women's professional sport, berkeley's also invested in establishing the Girls Football School Partnerships, with the aim of ensuring that all girls in England will have equal access to football in schools by 2024.

Sue Anstiss: 2:10

My guest today is Steph Horton, MBE. Captain of the Lionesses and Man City, Steph's represented her country at every level, with over 100 appearances for England. She's also led Man City to two Women's FA Cups, three Continental Cup successes and the FA Women's Super League title, as well as landing the PFA's Merit Award in 2019. Representing Team GB at the London 2012 Olympics, Steph became a household name. By scoring in all three group matches, including the winning goals against New Zealand and Brazil, steph proudly led the Lionesses to their World Cup semi-final last year in France, watched at home by almost 12 million viewers. I began by asking Steph how football first became a part of her life.

Steph Houghton: 3:01

Yeah, I think it was from my dad. Really. I think obviously he's one of seven boys in the family and they were all football mad. I'm from the North East, which is very much of a football hotbed, and I think as soon as I could run or I could walk, it was kind of like a football outbed. And I think as soon as I could run or I could walk, it was kind of like a football on my feet and my first ever memory was just playing football in the backyard with my dad really, and did you play other sports?

Sue Anstiss: 3:25

Did you love other sports as well?

Steph Houghton: 3:27

Yeah, I love sports, even still now. I mean obviously watching sports on the telly or whether we have daft little games of football and stuff. It's nice to do something a bit different. But I'm from a village so we had a cricket field there, used to play cricket, used to do taekwondo. Obviously at school you do a lot of sports there. So whatever, whether it was athletics, netball, it was always kind of like right, I'm just going to go and try and do every club as I possibly can and did you stand apart a little bit from other girls that were there in terms of your love of football?

Steph Houghton: 3:56

I think my love of football. I think it's probably still the same as it is now. I just love the game, whether it's playing, watching, talking about it. It's obviously something that's my life now, but obviously at the time I think probably the thing that stood out was probably my competitive edge, I think when I was was younger still the same now. I love to win and hate losing the worst loser ever and so I think, in terms of the other girls I played, they obviously love football but at the same time, I think if it was a choice of being on a five-a-side team, I think the boys would probably pick me because they knew that I'd like to get stuck in or I'd give us more of a chance of winning, which obviously I try and take into my games now Were other girls playing in school with you.

Sue Anstiss: 4:40

Then, as you say, the North East was a bit of a sort of hotbed for women's football.

Steph Houghton: 4:43

Yeah, like, obviously, my well, my best friend who's my cousin, amy, she, she loves football as well and when we were growing up it was always me and her playing football, whether it was in the yard, in the street or at school. My other best mate, lauren, who was a year below. We all kind of grew up together. Our families were really close and there was always a group of six, seven, eight of us that would always go and play five a side on a Sunday with our parents just to make a 10, and I think having them there gave us a little bit more confidence as well, because obviously there's other girls that love the sport that I do, but they chose different career paths. But I'm sure they could have made it if they wanted to and the opportunity was there. But I think for me at that age it was just all about trying to. At the time I couldn't really have that as a job, but the same time I knew I always wanted to play and I always knew I wanted it to be my hobby.

Sue Anstiss: 5:33

And what did you want to do when you were growing up? Did you have other things in mind?

Steph Houghton: 5:37

I think it would have been sport. I think PE teacher probably. I think obviously I love PE. That was probably the only lesson I really did like and just to get out of the classroom and do something a little bit active. I think that was always something that I wanted to do and my parents were really strong on us getting an education after school and going to sixth form and going to university, because at the time obviously women's football wasn't as big as it is now. So I think that's really stood us in good stead in terms of, obviously after football as well, getting a degree and all the qualifications to do what I potentially might want to do after football.

Sue Anstiss: 6:15

Do you remember any female role models, either sort of sporting role models at all, when you were growing up?

Steph Houghton: 6:23

Not so much, I think, not in the young years. I think there wasn't really in terms of female footballers to look up to, and I think for me it was always David Beckham, stephen Gerrard I was a Sunderland fan, so I used to have all the Sunderland shirts with his name on my back, and at the time I was a striker as well, so you try and copy what he does. But yeah, I think, obviously when you get a little bit older and you're getting more into your football and there's more games on television, the likes of Kelly Smith and Faye White, rachel Yankee, were the obvious names to kind of stand out and try and aspire to be.

Sue Anstiss: 6:55

Excellent, and then, obviously, you came to play with them later on in your career, or some of them anyway, as well.

Steph Houghton: 7:07

To be on the same team as the likes of Kelly, who is probably and nobody will ever be as good as her in this country, definitely one of the best players in the world and the same as Faye White unbelievable leader in terms of she took us under her wing and really looked after us. When I first went the England squad and Yanks is just Yanks, she's just unbelievable in terms of her personality, but also her deliveries on the pitch, consistency in games, and I was fortunate enough to play with them in England, but also at Arsenal as well, so I'm very lucky.

Sue Anstiss: 7:34

Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned Sunderland then, and it was Sunderland.

Steph Houghton: 7:36

Ladies, I think that came to look out for you when you were only about 10 or so, so how did that feel at the time, so young yeah, I mean, it was you never, ever think it would ever happen, because at the time we were on an Easter holiday football course, so one of them, ones where your mum and dad send you away for a couple of days to go and play football and get you out of the house. You pay 10 quid a day or whatever it might be. So me and my best mates, amy and Lauren, we always used to go. A lot of the lads from the street used to go as well. It was just five, six hours of playing football every day.

Steph Houghton: 8:10

I think obviously, the more you go to them, the more you get a little bit more confident. Luckily, that day there was a scout there from sunland who asked us if I wanted to go and train with one of the women's teams, and the fact I was 10 and yeah, I was potentially going to play with players that were a lot, lot older than me, and I couldn't really say no, and obviously he's a sunland fan and I think my mom's got a little picture of it where I'm going to receive a certificate of the guy who obviously said do you want to come and train with us, kind of thing. So that was obviously a really special moment and something that you never think of. But to play for your club like your support was a dream come true and how did that feel?

Sue Anstiss: 8:51

You mentioned like playing with adults, with grown women. Was that quite a bit of a shock? You're almost like, I guess, a youngster coming into that environment.

Steph Houghton: 8:59

Yeah, I mean, obviously it's quite daunting, isn't it? I think, obviously those players have been there for a long time. They're obviously a lot bigger, physically stronger than you, and it is a bit scary. But at the same time, I think I look back at that now and I think about all these youngsters that are coming through the squad and you need to be challenged, you need to be taking out your comfort zone and I think mine was probably a little bit earlier than a lot of young girls coming through the system now but at the same time, you have to be stronger. It's kind of like sink or swim, and for me I was. I was fortunate to have some amazing people around us, amazing coaches and the likes of me and Jill Scott, carly Telf. We were kind of grown up at the same time and we had each other to kind of lean on. But at the same time, when you're from the North East, you'd like to say that they're all nice people.

Sue Anstiss: 9:46

And we did say you both had that kind of hotbed in the North East there. So why do you think that was specifically for women's football? Because it does. I mean you've reeled off a few names there that went on to play for England. Why do you think that was? Do you think on the women's game?

Steph Houghton: 9:59

I think, in terms of the coaching that we received was ridiculous. I think in terms of the quality, we only ever used to train once, twice a week. We hardly had any games and the competitiveness, the love of football. And it wasn't just about them two train sessions, it was about what you did when you went back home. And I know for all the girls who were in the England squad now that are from the northeast, I know it was just not a case of just having two train sessions, just chill, watch telly. It was always about trying to improve yourself, try and go and play with your mates in the street and I like to think like the one thing that I'd like everybody to describe us as a North East bunch would be that we're hard working. I think that shows on and off the pitch really.

Sue Anstiss: 10:42

You moved to Leeds and then down to Arsenal to play in the Super League. How tough was it then to move down to London, to move away from the home environment at that time?

Steph Houghton: 10:51

Yeah, I mean, obviously I was at Leeds and I was at uni at the time. I was kind of used to potentially living away a little bit, but I used to go back every weekend to play for Leeds. A few years before I had an opportunity to go to Arsenal and I just didn't feel it was right. I felt I needed to play. I needed to probably go out there, play a few more years of first-team football, lose a few games, win a few games, grow up a little bit and the chance came along to go to Arsenal and it was something I couldn't really turn down. I wanted to win trophies. I knew I wasn't guaranteed to play every single game. The squad was full of England internationals, other internationals that had got over 100 caps and won loads of trophies at Arsenal. But for me I felt it was right.

Steph Houghton: 11:35

And yeah, it was daunting I mean taking a North East girl out of the North East and going four or five hours away. But look, I think that's what the type of club Arsenal were. They made sure I was okay, they looked after us. Vic Akers was unbelievable. It was getting sorted with my flat, my accommodation, the girls were amazing as well. Well, and I made some amazing friends down there, and you were made captain.

Steph Houghton: 12:00

So how long into your time there were you made captain um, it was my third year, so I would have been 25. It was just before I moved to city, so a new manager came in and obviously there was a lot of changes, and Kelly Smith was originally the captain, but at the time she had a few injuries, and then I was asked to be vice captain, which was originally the captain, but at the time she had a few injuries, and then I was asked to be vice-captain, which was a surprise, but at the same time it was something that I couldn't really turn down and I felt as though I had the qualities going forward to become captain eventually in the future at whatever club I was at and obviously at the time it was Arsenal and how did that change your perception and, I guess, your feeling towards the game and the team as well, becoming captain?

Steph Houghton: 12:40

I think you feel as though you've got a little bit more responsibility on your shoulders. I think for me I care so much and when I play football it's not just about myself, it's about my team and I want to make them happy and I want to make my performances count for the team and if there's something happening I performances count for the team and if there's something happening, I'll always try, and maybe I get involved a little bit too much, but it's because I care and I want us to win. And ultimately, I think, when you love the game so much and you know that you're a role model and you've got young players underneath, you've got to try and do everything you can to make this game even better than what it is now, and I'd probably take that role really seriously Excellent.

Sue Anstiss: 13:16

How much were you training and playing then? So you mentioned when you were at Leeds. It's a couple of nights a week, it's under and under, but by this time at Arsenal, how much were you training then?

Steph Houghton: 13:25

Probably three or four times a week and obviously a game as well. So we were starting to increase the training load really, and I think the fact that we were in Champions League as well, there was a lot more training times because we had so many more games to prepare for as well, but obviously that was the dream was to go there and to be able to train on the ball more and train with all the players at a world class level, and you became full time professional with the new man City Women, as it was then in 2014.

Sue Anstiss: 13:52

So how do you feel your life changed then to become fully professional? What difference did that make to you?

Steph Houghton: 13:56

So how do you feel your life changed then to become fully professional? What difference did that make to you? It was a massive change, but I knew I needed to make the change. I think for me there was lots of things going on. Obviously, I love my time at Arsenal the unbelievable club and I was playing, I was captain, so in that sense I was fine on the pitch.

Steph Houghton: 14:15

But I felt I just needed to push myself a little bit more and the opportunity to move to man City kind of came around. It was a bit random and a bit not really expected, but obviously, speaking to my age and my family, and a chance to move up home, towards home anyway, and start a new life and a new chapter. And at the time we didn't really have an England manager. So it was kind of like right, okay, like I need to challenge myself in so many different ways. And man City offered to give us full-time football and the facilities we have up here are second to none and I could see the vision over the next four or five years. And sometimes it's hard when you're in that moment because nothing's built yet and but I really wanted to buy in, I really wanted to be there from the start and to be captain of this club and, as you said, the rest kind of history.

Sue Anstiss: 15:05

Yeah, I saw one of the videos of you giving a bit of a tour of the facilities. It is quite extraordinary, isn't it Just breathtaking.

Steph Houghton: 15:11

Yeah, you have to pinch yourself. I think obviously now in moments like this when you're in lockdown, and I think obviously sometimes when it gets a bit hectic, it gets a bit busy. You, sometimes, when it gets a bit hectic, it gets a bit busy. Just I just want to be home. But I think you start to appreciate what you really have and, um, not only the facilities but the people that we have at the club. I think it's a very family orientated club. You come in, everybody makes you feel welcome, like I feel, like they're my family. I miss them today. And even just to have a chat to whoever it is in the canteen or the receptionist, just to see how they are, it just makes it feel like home and you've been um england captain, I think for six years now, and obviously you're captain at man city too.

Sue Anstiss: 15:48

So what is it? Do you think that makes you a good captain?

Steph Houghton: 15:52

I think, I'd like to think it's probably my professionalism, I think, the way that I apply myself every single day, and it's something that I really pride myself on and I give everything, whatever it may be, even if it's a warm-up, a cool-down, recovery on the pitch. I like to lead by example. I think over the years I think I've improved a lot in different areas. I think you don't have it straight away. At the time I got the captaincy, I was 26.

Steph Houghton: 16:19

I had to lean on a lot of people. It probably was really tough at first, but at the same time you have to kind of go through their moments and come out with the other side, and I feel comfortable with how I am and I like to inspire people, whether that's through talking, whether that's through my performances and I'm not scared to tell people off either Something that I probably could be better at. But I'd like to think that my standards is as high as anybody else's and for me the expectation is for everybody else to kind of try and reach that standard, and I think you've got to be realistic that some people might not get there. But if you can see the intention, then that's the best thing that we can hope for.

Sue Anstiss: 16:56

And do you feel that you're a different captain when you're a captain of Lionesses than when you're a club captain at man city?

Steph Houghton: 17:02

yeah, I think, um, for me, I think, at man city I find it a lot easier and, I'll be honest, I think I go in there. I'm like just another one of the girls in terms of you see them every single day and my role is not as heavy as it probably is in england. I think when you go away with england you only see your teammates for 10, 12 days and in that period you've got so much work to do, you've got so much catching up to do. You've got to kind of switch your mindset to England mindset. You've got to adapt to what the coach wants you to do. There's a different group of girls, so sometimes it's quite hard to adapt. But at the same time, once you've kind of got over them first two, three days, it kind of becomes natural and for me football always comes first. So, regardless of whether I've got an armband on or I'm named captain of England, for me I need to just let my football do the talking, and that's what I've always got to just focus on.

Sue Anstiss: 17:54

And do you ever wish you could just be a regular member of a team and not have that responsibility of captaincy?

Steph Houghton: 18:03

Sometimes, yeah, yeah, of course, like when there's problems and obviously you've got to do a lot more media and but look, I'm fortunate enough to be captain of my country and captain of an unbelievable football club. So for me, I'm not going to sit here and go. I wish I was just somebody else, but I do get what you mean. I think there's times when there's been some tough moments, and especially when the pressure's on people do look at the captain or they do look at the bigger players, and sometimes you're just like right, okay, well, actually my performance was actually good, but I understand why you're trying to put the blame on somebody else. So for me, I think the most important opinions I listen to is my family and, obviously, my two managers.

Sue Anstiss: 18:40

You became a bit of a household name really, I guess, in terms of London 2012 and those amazing goals you scored in all three of the group matches. So can you just share, I guess, some of the biggest memories that you had from the London Olympics?

Steph Houghton: 18:52

oh, the Olympics was crazy, unbelievable. I think people always say, like what? What's a World Cup like? And World Cup is unreal. But Olympics was just. It was just a different feeling. I think the first ever Olympics at Team GB women's football teams being involved in things like the kit and out process, being in the village with all the other athletes you don't become important. It's weird, whereas if we're a football team in a World Cup, there's a lot of focus on you as a team and as an individual, whereas when you're as part of Team GB, everybody's just the same, no matter who you are. And it was a really nice feeling to see people going out to train and people preparing for the competitions. The memories from that is obviously. The first ever game to open the Olympics as well at Millennium Stadium was was special, yeah. And then obviously, the Brazil game at Wembley was where dreams come true. I think. Yeah, that goal. I don't know what was wrong with us. That tournament, everything I touched went in the back of the neck.

Sue Anstiss: 19:52

Did you feel things changed then? I mean, people do talk about it, don't they? Forever that tipping point, but it does feel like from that moment, in terms of the public consciousness, women's football changed. Do you think that was a really key moment?

Steph Houghton: 20:04

yeah, of course I think, if you think back to that Brazil game alone, I think to get that many people in Wembley Stadium, I don't think anybody expected that and that was just the pull of the team GB. I don't think it was necessarily us, it was just kind of the. The whole country wanted to go and see some some olympic sports and we were lucky enough that over 70 000 came to watch us. But and I always remember my mom, she got the train down to london and then obviously got the tube to wembley on the way back. Obviously after scoring the goal she was just like people were reenacting your goal. They were shouting yeah, they were naming stuff and like, I think, for them on, people were actually starting to talk about women's football, which I think from then we've kind of not really looked back.

Sue Anstiss: 20:46

How amazing for her to experience that. I was going to ask you how your life changed after the tournament, but I guess her as your mum also, and then hearing your your kind of fame really changed too yeah, it was.

Steph Houghton: 20:57

It was mental, I think. Obviously, obviously all the papers. All my friends were keeping the paper. My grandma was keeping the papers on the back, the back pages. Then I think there was a lot more media attention. There was a lot more people wanting to do appearances. That's when I first got my agent, because I didn't really have a clue what was going on. I'm just doing appearances at Arsenal, I'm just doing whatever they're asking us to do. But I think that's when a lot of the girls lives maybe change. I think, because we're out there, we people knew our names and a lot more girls want to start playing football and how did that feel then, I guess to be that new role model to that next generation of girls then.

Steph Houghton: 21:34

I think I think you kind of consciously think about what you're doing. I think in terms of whether it was on social media or the interviews you gave, it was kind of like you wanted to kind of give out a little bit of a message and you were living their dream that they wanted to be. So I think, first and foremost is just to be myself. I think it's important that people see us as normal people, and I come from the northeast, I come from a mining village. I've worked hard to get where I am and anything is possible if you put your mind to it. So for me, it was just all about trying to show my personality and and be the footballer that I was.

Sue Anstiss: 22:09

How do you deal with the negative bits in terms of the media, and I guess social media now more so, even isn't it the last five years? How do you personally deal with that when there's negativity?

Steph Houghton: 22:18

It's quite, it's quite hard, I think, um, the older I've got, the lot better I've got in terms of being able to kind of block it out. And obviously you do a lot of work with the psychologists in terms of making sure you're checking in and the stuff that's probably affected us. That should never really affect you. But absolutely I'm not stupid enough to know that the media kind of can create something out of nothing. And I think for me you've just got to kind of go back to the facts and concentrate on your own game. And sometimes the media might be right but at the same time, sometimes they're definitely trying to just either create a story or say something, to kind of create something else as well.

Sue Anstiss: 22:57

Traversy, I think you're right as well, you're authentic, and so on. I think you're right as long as you're authentic, and so on. Is there any advice you'd give to the young, up-and-coming female players now that are getting more profile and will be where you are in a decade's time in terms of social media?

Steph Houghton: 23:09

Yeah, I think it's all about consistency and realising that there's going to be people that really build you up to a certain level and then there's going to be people that are as quick to throw you back down. So for me, I think it's quick to throw you back down. So for me, I think it's just kind of staying on that level where you know you're very comfortable and I think, obviously, when the highs do come, I think, enjoy them. But at the same time in football, the football works funny ways and sometimes there's a low around the corner and you've got to just kind of stay focused on you and football always first for me. I think that's why I've kind of excellent. I can always remember having that conversation with my agent it's always football. No, whether whether it's appearances, whatever it might be for your sponsors, I think if there's not, if nothing's right on the pitch and you're not playing well, you have to kind of strip it all back and get back to the basics. Excellent.

Sue Anstiss: 23:56

I think you've been a trailblazer on so many levels, but in 2014, you were the first woman to appear on the front cover of shoot. Yeah, how did that feel at the time? It really kind of really was something yeah it was.

Steph Houghton: 24:07

It was cool. I think obviously that came through City as well and I think moving to a club like that, I knew that there was going to be a lot more opportunities in that sense, um of stuff like that. And I think for me it was a bit mad because every Christmas I'd always get a shoot annual me. My brother would always fight over it, whoever it was, and if it, if it'd been placed on your couch or whatever it was, it was always that's my shoot annual. So to be on the cover was amazing, not just for myself but also for women's football, to kind of get out and to get into football magazines like that that's so good to hear, and you obviously had the most magnificent tournament last year in France last summer, and again we talked about London 2012,.

Sue Anstiss: 24:47

but a further transformation of the public's perception. Were you aware, as players when you were out in France, just how much it was getting picked up at home, or were you in a bit more of a bubble?

Steph Houghton: 24:58

I think when you're in a tournament like that, you do get into a bubble. I think when you're in a tournament like that, you do get into a bubble. I think it's kind of like you're moving hotel all the time. You just focus on the next game. I think when the families start to come out, you kind of realize that it is. It is starting to build up a little bit at home and people are tweeting in, instagramming obviously, the flags outside the house, them watching the games and we're getting fed back. How many people are like watching us back home? And we're big, we're breaking all these record viewing figures and, until you kind of hear them, stats.

Steph Houghton: 25:28

Yeah, you kind of don't really realize because you're so focused. I mean, other people might be different, but from my point of view it was kind of like okay, we've got seven weeks. You're counting down the days. Me, my roommate, ellen, are like right, okay, three more days to the next game, then it's a week to the quarterfinal, then 10 days to the semi-final. So you're kind of counting down but at the same time you're just so focused on being mentally right and obviously physically right for the games coming up absolutely and and clearly you've said in the past an amazing whole tranche of games really that got you to that semi-final.

Sue Anstiss: 26:01

But you said you won't be personally defined, as it were, by that missed penalty in the in the. Yeah, how have you? How do you deal with that? Do you have psychologists that help you to put that to the back of your mind or not deal with that?

Steph Houghton: 26:13

I think, obviously, people do ask us about it a lot and I don't really think about it every single day or obviously, as time's gone on, you kind of put it to the back of your mind and until maybe you see a highlight of the world cup and you're thinking, oh no, never mind, like whatever it might be. But for me, like I've said before, I think I know for a fact that I had a good tournament in france and played every single game and I had an opportunity. Apparently I missed, and that emotional part of you goes well if, if you just scored that, then we would have potentially been in the final. But look, it's football. I remember in 2015, I saved one off the line to keep us in the game. So it kind of works around like that. But for me, I've got the right people around us and I'm just focused on playing as well as I can.

Sue Anstiss: 26:58

Absolutely, and we've said many times. Obviously, 11.7 million people watching Milanis in that semi-final, but those numbers perhaps haven't translated into the WSL in terms of fan numbers and engagement. What do you think would you like to be seen to be done to increase that further, to build up those numbers when we're back playing?

Steph Houghton: 27:18

Yeah, exactly when we're back playing. No, I think for me. I think we need to try and find a regular slot and where all these games are played. And I get that sometimes for television purposes the games are changed, and I think when these games get changed quite late on, it's quite hard for them fans to then adjust when they're going to go and watch the games.

Steph Houghton: 27:40

Obviously it's hard as well with the men in terms of the clashes of their games as well, but at the same time we can promote them so much more better and we can get them out there. We can really push them hard as much as we possibly can, because I think it's more about people knowing when the game is rather than people wanting to actually come and the tickets are cheap enough. People have got an opportunity to come to say, for example, a lot of man City fans have got an opportunity to come and watch the women play. We play exactly the same as the men. We play an unbelievable stadium. The facilities are ridiculous. We have pre-match entertainment. So it's more of trying to get people to the game and once they're there, they'll enjoy it anyway.

Sue Anstiss: 28:20

Absolutely. That's so good to hear and you're clearly at the you know top of your game, but are there elements that you're still working on that.

Steph Houghton: 28:29

You'd like to improve as a player? Yeah, everything really, I think. For me I think getting a little bit older now and but I still feel as fit as I've ever ever been and this is for me as a an opportunity through lockdown is to strive to be even better and, um, to get stronger, to get out in the pitch, do all my running and I'm going to start adding a little bit of pilates and more yoga and just experiment a little bit. I'm constantly on the phone to the man city sports scientist, the england sports scientist. I'm trying to find different ways to probably sick of us messaging, but at the same time, I'm like I want to use as much opportunity as I can to be even better, and I don't think anybody can sit in a seat like this and say, no, I don't need to work on anything, because we all have something to work on absolutely, and you do a fantastic amount for for charities, and one of them I'm really interested in is your Ambassador for Period Poverty campaign.

Sue Anstiss: 29:22

Can you just tell us a little bit about that?

Steph Houghton: 29:24

Well, of course. So basically, obviously, people that are a bit less privileged than what we are in terms of having the access to the tampons or the pads, I think it was important for us to try and encourage girls to continue playing sport. Try and encourage girls to continue playing sport, and that period shouldn't be really able to affect you um playing the sport that you want to do or being in school and doing PE. I think it's important that we strive to encourage young girls to play and, even though we do have periods, it's it's important that we we can still do whatever we want to do, and that should never, ever be able to stop us excellent, excellent.

Sue Anstiss: 30:01

It's really good to hear Moving on to other roles that you're taking off the pitch, off the grass. You were the first female pundit on Sky. How was that for you as an experience at the time, the first time?

Steph Houghton: 30:15

Oh, it was an unreal experience, I think, for me to get that opportunity. I was surprised, but at the same time, I'm always watching all the football on the telly. I always watch Monday Night Football, super Sunday when we're not playing, and um for me. I love talking about football, so it gave me an opportunity to do so and um. Every time I go on, I know I get a little bit more confident. I feel more comfortable with the presenter or pundits that are next to us and they make you feel really welcome. So it's definitely something that I'd love to do in the future.

Sue Anstiss: 30:44

That's the next question. Really, for me, that was going to be something you'd like to do more of, and would you like to do more of it kind of on a full-time, full-on basis after playing, do you think about what you'll do after the game?

Steph Houghton: 30:54

Yeah, I mean I'd love to be still involved at man City I think that's ultimately the aim is to or England, and I don't know whether that'll be a cut in a coaching role, but I think in terms of how the program looks, working with players I don't really know what you would call that role, but I think for me it's just kind of getting my head around that I want to be involved and keep developing the game, I think at the first team, elite level, and obviously the punditry stuff is something that I'm going to look into and try and keep my foot in the door with Sky and try and do stuff when the football returns in the next few months.

Sue Anstiss: 31:30

Excellent, and have you done your coaching badges? Are you coaching at all now?

Steph Houghton: 31:35

Yeah, I'm doing my B licence at the moment, so there's a few of us at the club doing it, so I'm still going to do it, just in case anything kind of crops up. But for me I don't really feel as though my desire is to be on the grass every single day coaching. I think I'd get too jealous and just want to play anyway.

Sue Anstiss: 31:51

Excellent and we've heard a lot recently, haven't we, about more female players, even in the last few weeks, around the prevalence of ACL injuries and, gillian, you've had your own experience of you know injuries, knee injuries, etc. Do you feel um the more should be being done for women, for the I guess the difference in the women's bodies and performance in terms of the likelihood of injuries.

Steph Houghton: 32:13

I think for me, if I look back on my own experience of ACL, I think mine was a contact injury and I think, no matter how much yeah, prevention I did in the gym, it was just one of them things, regardless of whether I was female, um, it just happened. And I think in the women's game we always try to strive for perfection and we're trying to improve and we're getting there with the types of facilities that we have got now obviously got St George's Park, we've got um, we're supported by the PFA and if people do get injured, they can go and use the performance center at St George's. And I'm at man City where we've got unbelievable physios and an unbelievable medical department. And I think for me, I think it's if you look at the low, the clubs that are lower down, I think it's how much support they get, and I think, as a sport, I think we need to strive to give everybody as many opportunities you possibly can throughout the leagues rather than just the top league itself.

Sue Anstiss: 33:06

Yeah, absolutely, and you were out for nearly a year, I think, with your injury when you were about 21 or so. So how did you deal with that psychologically, to be away from the game for so long?

Steph Houghton: 33:16

It was tough. Obviously I needed two operations for my knee because it was that mashed up. I'd obviously done my ACL, which was totally ruptured. I'd pretty much nearly ruptured my medial ligament, so I'd end up getting an operation on my medial ligament. So that was six weeks to rehab that. But ultimately in the longer term it would mean that my knee was in a better condition. I was learning. I was going to miss out on another major tournament for England where I probably would have been starting. That was two tournaments in a row. So mentally it was tough.

Steph Houghton: 33:47

But I think I can always remember having a conversation with my dad and he was just like look, steph, like this is your training. Now it's not, it's a different type of training. You've got to do your rehab exercise. You've got to do everything you've got to. And I was lucky enough to be supported by EAS and with England. They were brilliant with us. They got us the best surgeon in the country I rehabbed. Obviously there's ups and downs with rehab. Sometimes it doesn't go as smooth, but at the same time I think I had to go through that year of probably getting physically stronger it probably made us mentally stronger as well to then come back and I think, even though I was out of football for a year, I think it still probably takes you another four months after that to kind of get back into where you are and the player you were.

Sue Anstiss: 34:30

Excellent. And man City so 2018. I think they launched the same city, same passion campaign, so wanting to show fans the similarities really to the men's game are much more likely than they are different from a women's point of view, and actually men's, women's, boys and girls football can be enjoyed by all fans. So what have you seen change across women's football in the six years that you've been there? Have you seen a real difference?

Steph Houghton: 34:54

yeah, a massive difference. I think you see a lot more men coming to watch our games, whereas probably previously you probably get mums bringing their young girls to come and watch us. Even when we're going to the stadium and you see all the fans walking in, you see little boys with your name on their top, which is cool, I think, for me to have that. I think that just typifies the club really. I think the way that they support the men's team, the women's team, the EDS, the academy, boys and girls, I think it's all about if you play for man City, you represent our club and we'll give you every opportunity to be the best player you can, and that's shown without all the age groups, throughout the whole club.

Sue Anstiss: 35:33

That's fantastic, isn't it? And what do you think other clubs can learn from their attitude of man City, because it does feel, from an outsider, like they really have set themselves apart in terms of their support of the women's team.

Steph Houghton: 35:45

I just think they've shown that if you give the backham to whether you're male or female, you can be successful, and we've shown that over a number of years. I think we're consistently winning trophies on both sides of the game and I think it is possible to share the same facility. And we have an unbelievable facility, the CFA, which allows us to be world-class footballers, allows us to have an opportunity to be the best and ultimately then it's down to the players. So I think for us it's just that family. Feel that togetherness, feel that no matter how much you put that man City top on, they want you to be as successful as ever.

Sue Anstiss: 36:20

Yeah, amazing isn't it? And so, just in closing, if you were able to look back on that 10-year-old self that went off to Sunderland scouted there, is there any advice that you'd give yourself then, or young girls coming through now?

Steph Houghton: 36:32

First of all, just work as hard as you possibly can in everything that you do and don't worry about what others think. As you grow a little bit older and obviously there's a lot more people speaking about the game, I think the more you worry about what other people think, it can kind of detract you from your own game. So for me it's just all about focusing on you and what you can do to help your team win.

Sue Anstiss: 36:54

Thanks so much to Steph for taking the time to talk to me. I'm sure she'll keep inspiring many young girls and boys to work hard to achieve their dreams. Thanks also to Barclays for their kind support of the Game Changers, which enables us to share the stories of these amazing women with audiences all over the world, and thanks also to Sam Walker from what Goes On Media, who is the fabulous executive producer for the Game Changers podcast. You can find out more about all my guests from this and the previous series at fearlesswomencouk.

Sue Anstiss: 37:30

If you're enjoying the podcast, please do leave us a review. It really does make a big difference. Or you can get in touch on social media on Twitter, facebook or Instagram, at Sue Anstis or at the Game Changers. Next week I have the absolute privilege of talking to Moya Dodd, one of the most influential women in global sport. Former vice-captain of the Australian women's football team, moya served on the board of Football Federation Australia and Asian Football's governing body before she became one of the first women to join the FIFA Council, where she took a lead role on gender reforms.

Speaker 3: 38:09

This whole idea that there is no demand to watch women play sport is the biggest fallacy that has been sold to us. That is not something that occurred naturally. That is something that occurred because of the active suppression and eradication of women from the sporting landscape.

Sue Anstiss: 38:29

The Game Changers Fearless women in sport.