Kristen Dusting: The cultural and community impact of roller derby

“It’s very difficult to find venues in the UK. Teams in the USA have permanent venues where they train. We're stuck with pokey little sports halls where we're constantly fighting the badminton mafia for space.”

Today’s episode is an adrenaline-fueled journey into the world of roller derby with the formidable Kristen Dusting, a silver medalist in the 2014 Roller Derby World Cup who's seen it all. We explore the incredible history and growth of what many consider to be the most inclusive of sports - revolutionary, loudly LGBTQ plus inclusive, actively anti-racist, and women and non-binary led.

From the sport's humble beginnings in the era of the Great Depression to its punk rock-fueled resurgence and today's dynamic scene, we explore the essence of roller derby's allure. The sport has become a beacon of inclusion, championing women and non-binary individuals in a way few sports have managed.

Kristen's been playing roller derby with London since the sport's beginnings in the UK in 2006 and has been very much part of growing this grassroots women's and non-binary sport from the ground up, not just within the UK but globally. 

When not skating or coaching, Kristen owns a skate shop where she combines her passion for the sport with roller skates and the wonderful roller derby community. She continues to play for London roller derby's top team, London Brawling, who are currently ranked number one in Europe and hope to make it to the 2024 World Championships in Portland, Oregon.

We also celebrate the sport's profound impact on mental health and its proud connection to the LGBTQ+ community, fostering an environment where everyone can flourish.

As Kristen mentioned, if you’re interested in getting involved as Team Manager for England Roller Derby in the next world championships please drop an email to Englandrollerderby@gmail.com

Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.

Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers

Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media

A Fearless Women production

Transcript

Sue Anstiss: 0:02

Hello and welcome to The Game Changers. I'm Sue Anstiss, and this is the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazing women in sport who are quite literally knocking down barriers and challenging the status quo for women and girls everywhere. What can we learn from their journeys as we explore some of the key issues around equality in sport and beyond? I'd like to start with a big thank you to our partners, Sport England, who support The Game Changers podcast through a National Lottery award. My guest today is Kristen Dusting, a silver medalist for England in the 2014 Roller Derby World Cup.

Sue Anstiss: 0:40

A multi-medal winning skater for London Roller Derby, Kristen has been playing Roller Derby in London since the sport's beginnings in the UK in 2006 and has been very much part of growing this grassroots women's and non-binary sport from the ground up, not just within the UK but globally. In those 18 years, Kristen's held many roles within the sport, including head of training director, captain, freelance coach and representative for the women's flat track derby association. When not skating or coaching, Kristen owns a Roller Derby skate shop where she combines her passion for the sport with roller skates and the wonderful Roller Derby community. She continues to play for London Roller Derby's top team, London Brawling, who are currently ranked number one in Europe and hope to make it to the 2024 World Championships in Portland, oregon. Kristen is incredibly proud to be part of a sport that is so revolutionary, loudly LGBTQ, plus inclusive, actively anti-racist and women and non-binary led. Kristen, can I start by asking you to tell us more about Roller Derby, especially for those who might not be as familiar with this incredible, inclusive sport.

Kristen Dusting: 2:03

Well, to start with, there is no ball. So that's often the question that we're asked where's the ball? So there is no ball. How the sport is played is you have two teams of five skaters. Each team has a point scorer and they are called the jammer. So the jammer's role is to pass the opposing blockers as many times as they can within like little short two minute periods, and the catch is there's four blockers trying to stop them from doing that, and then there's also four blockers on their team who are offensively trying to get them past the opposition. So it's offense and defense at the same time. All looks very chaotic, but what you see is lots of fast skating, big hits like very technical skating.

Sue Anstiss: 2:52

And can you describe a little bit of what it's like at a Roller Derby match? As an experience and, if I'm honest, I have watched quite a few videos in the last few weeks it looks a little bit frightening to watch from a specific data side, but what it's like to actually be a part of it and play.

Kristen Dusting: 3:07

Yeah, I think you're right. When you're watching it you're like, well, do I actually do this because it's pretty brutal? But I think because I started when everyone was terrible, you know you kind of learn as you went along and actually when you're playing it it doesn't feel particularly aggressive or contacty, even though you know you can watch footage afterwards and you're like oh yeah, like went flying across the floor all through the game. I feel like, for me personally, playing it is very, almost like cool, calm and collected.

Sue Anstiss: 3:44

And the sport has obviously been through a few evolutions since the 1920s, from an endurance spectacle to a highly competitive sport. So if you can, I feel I'm asking you lots to give us the history, but a little potted history of kind, of where it came from and the evolution of it that we see today.

Kristen Dusting: 4:00

Yeah, definitely. So. It started off as like a post-depression era game in the States. It was just a skate race, basically like endurance race. And then the kind of promoters realized the bits that the audience loved to see were the bits where people were crashing into each other. And so from then on they kind of invented this game where, you know, you sort of smashed into each other. That went all through kind of 50s, 60s, a bit of a TV kind of version of it in the 70s and then, you know, just sort of died out.

Kristen Dusting: 4:35

Then in I believe it was 2004, a group of women in Texas decided to kind of revive this game. They made up some rules. It was very punk rock, very DIY, very women led, and then some other skaters from different areas around the States sort of saw what they were doing there and emulated them and then they started to play games together and, yeah, pretty much just invented this sport. It was still very much very punk rock, very spectacle based at the start and yeah, then we kind of came along in 2006. And we were started by two women that had played in the States or had seen a few games in the States. So new kind of this you know underground thing that was going on this like revolution in women's sport. And, yeah, they were living in London and decided to start a roller derby team. So that was about April 2006.

Sue Anstiss: 5:40

And so many sports. Today, the majority of team sports have men as the originators and still as the rule makers, and it's fabulous. That's not really the case for roller derby, so why do you feel, as someone that's so involved in a sport that is so important?

Kristen Dusting: 5:55

Oh, I just think, being able not having a mold that we sort of started off in, not being in the shadow of the men's sport, not feeling like that the men's sport is the defaults version of the sport and that we're playing catch up. At the time it just felt like a really empowering revolutionary, like cool thing that you were doing, like with your cool girlfriends, and I think, as the sport has kind of progressed, it's meant being able to create something that we want to see as women and non binary people, rather than yet trying to fit in with whatever the man's version of the sport is. So we've been able to build things from the ground up in I don't know more of a community kind of based way and, I guess, a version of what we want to see in the world.

Sue Anstiss: 6:59

And that revolutionary elements I absolutely feel that appears so foundational to the sport and the fact that it embodies female empowerment. Is that just grown over time? So the pieces we saw at the very beginning 2006, has that just evolved as time's gone on?

Kristen Dusting: 7:15

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's one of our like core things. That Is is very, very important to us that we are not just like run and owned by skaters, but that we're running owned by women and non binary skaters. It's definitely something that we feel very, very strongly about and I mean, I think it was maybe something at the start, that's I don't know what we didn't so much have an awareness of what that meant in the outside world, but I think now we feel this responsibility and a very keen awareness of how that the rest of the world operates and how we want to hold that power for ourselves.

Sue Anstiss: 8:03

I heard a lovely quote that roller derby flips the switch on what it means to be feminine, and many female sports, as we know, of kind of objectified female competitors for the male gaze was already turns its head on this. It just regards those gender norms and stereotype. So Is that something that attracted you to the sport and has made it appealing to you as times gone on?

Kristen Dusting: 8:27

I mean, I think when I, when I started gosh that's a hard question I feel like I was kind of raised in a very sporty environment. My dad was a high school teacher growing up and I came from a very sporty Australian family so in terms of sport, we were always encouraged to play sport and play competitively. So I think my personal experience is very different from women who felt Like that they were excluded from from sports usually, you know, when you start high school and that sort of thing so. But I have an understanding of how important that is for A lot of my teammates. I guess, like when we sort of first started again, it was that kind of punk rock, diy and a lot of Outlandish costumes and face makeup and that sort of thing and that that was fun. That was just really really fun.

Kristen Dusting: 9:26

I think as time has kind of progressed, we have actually become a little bit more like sporty and serious. I say a little bit a lot. You look at the uniforms now and you know it's fairly kind of generic, a sportsy, but I think there's kind of a power in that you know that we're not just reduced to being a sideshow, that we are actually Elite athletes, you know who can still have fun, who still certainly have fun at the after party, who you know, you kind of adding, adding a little twist on what it means to be a powerful and strong woman, non binary person.

Sue Anstiss: 10:04

And is there a bit of a challenge there when you say you're progressing down a more competitive and I believe, actually was potentially to be an Olympic sport in 2020. But does that move away from the roots of the costumes and the makeup and the kind of anarchy feel of the sport in its origins? How does the sport balance those two elements?

Kristen Dusting: 10:25

I think there's room for everything.

Kristen Dusting: 10:26

Yeah, I think as we sort of got more competitive in terms of how we were playing and how you know how good we were, and that we wanted to win games and that sort of thing and progress the sport in that way rather than it just being entertainment, there was definitely a big change from that sort of original Antics, you know sort of thing, but the modern roller derby that you see.

Kristen Dusting: 10:56

Now nothing is staged, nothing is, you know, like wrestling or anything like that, but what you do see is Different types of playing the game. So you know you'll see little tournaments kind of pop up that might be full of challenge teams and like a challenge team is, you know, like Tall people versus small people, I don't know, like some some funny costume versus some other funny costume and that's kind of just played for fun, like totally for fun, like a fiver side, you know kind of thing. And so, as the sport has progressed, there's different entry levels into the sport. So I mean certainly kind of the higher up that that you go becomes a lot more serious. But yeah, there's definitely scope for playing in whatever way you want to. Really, I mentioned growing up in Australia, so how did you come to sort?

Sue Anstiss: 11:46

of your first find on a derby.

Kristen Dusting: 11:53

So I've been living here since 2004 and I kind of hadn't had it really found my people yet. And in October 2006 a friend of mine who had also come over from Australia having to find a flyer advertising for new recruits and she'd known that I'd skated when I was younger in Australia and Asked if I wanted to go along with it and just you know, kind of keep a company. And I had a vague idea of what roller derby was like from the seventies. For some reason I think my mom had watched it on TV or something, and I thought it would just be you go along to a skating rink and at some point they'd be like and now time for the roller derby, and you just smash into each other and I thought that's pretty cool, I can do that, and I had.

Kristen Dusting: 12:42

Actually I had no idea that it was actually like a brand new sport. You know, very DIY. Literally there was five people rolling around in a circle and you know I use the term rolling lightly, generously and I basically like went to my first training session and I could still skate, which was great picked everything up quite easily and just had a really great time. And I remember like we all went out to the pub after the training session and I felt like for me it was the first time, yeah, meeting a group of people since moving to London. You're not having any family and friends here. And I just remember being on the tube on the way home and thinking like this is the thing that you're gonna stick with. Like this is the thing that, even if you don't feel like going to training, even if you're tired, you're gonna go and you're gonna stick with this. And yeah, I guess, nearly 18 years later, here I am.

Sue Anstiss: 13:47

Is that the house, and is it big in cities, in kind of urban areas, at universities? Where's the growth of the sport in the UK?

Kristen Dusting: 13:57

Maybe a little bit different post covid. Obviously with covid everything stopped. But you know, kind of the I don't know it can be quite interesting which teams you know sort of end up at the top. So ourselves, rainy city, who are in Manchester, the team in Birmingham was the second team in the UK. Middlesbrough, you know, have been like up there. Newcastle, the team in Cardiff, tiger Bay, are really awesome, but yeah, pretty much Any town, any city, even any area. Yeah, you know that might be drawing from you know kind of a number of towns, like you're gonna find a roller-de-deague here.

Sue Anstiss: 14:39

And you've obviously gone on to play, as I mentioned in the introduction, across the world. You've won various medals and championships. So what is it you think that makes someone great at Roller-Darby on a competitive level?

Kristen Dusting: 14:50

Oh, I think you've got to be a tad obsessed. You've got to have like insatiable drive and hunger and ambition and, yeah, a little bit of Obsessive, like cult-like kind of tendencies, that's. That's personality traits in terms of actually being good at the sport. You have to know how to roll escape. I feel like you do need to have a really good understanding of yourself and being able to look at the game and analyze the game, strategize. You have to be very good at Plow stopping and bending your knees.

Sue Anstiss: 15:45

And can you tell us? It's interesting is that that whole piece around whether you might have had Olympic inclusion. But can you tell us a bit more about the competitive structure for roller-darby across the world? How's that set up and how has that evolved?

Kristen Dusting: 15:57

Yeah, so we are under an organization called the women's flat track derby Association, so the WFT DA. They were started maybe a couple of years after Roller-Darby had started again in the States and it was basically Representatives from you know, the handful of teams that existed that decided to kind of get together and come up with rules that meant that you could play against each other, come up with a competitive structure. So this is all very, you know, basic, made from the ground up. You know there was no structure for it. Technically, roller sports do generally come under a governing body. In the States it was usars, over here BRSF. However, in the early days those organizations basically wanted nothing to do with us. They just thought we were a bunch of crazy women on roller skates. You know that smashed into each other. So the WFT DA kind of went its own way and Was not part of you sars, and that's kind of become a little bit of a similar thing globally where, as well as being, you know, sort of skate, a run within our own orgasm organizations, we want to Govern our sport ourselves as well. So in the UK we come under the BRSF. However, we are classed as associated members. So we technically received no, nothing from the BRSF. We've never received any funding to this day. There was UK roller derby association that was. That was started in the same kind of vein as the WFT DA. That actually disbanded during covert the. The organization decided that it, just in its current form, wasn't relevant to what was needed. So at the moment we were kind of ungoverned, other than Most teams do.

Kristen Dusting: 17:59

Whether or not you're a member of the WFT DA. Most teams prescribe to kind of the rule, the rule set and the policies of the WFT DA. So the WFT DA is the is our governing body. But what that means in terms of, you know, road to the Olympics. There isn't a road to the Olympics because you need to go through your Governing, your, your country's governing bodies and that that doesn't exist yet. There has been a lot of discussion about Whether or not that's even something that we want for us. Board Um you, because there are a lot of stipulations, obviously with the IOC. I guess a lot of that includes trans inclusion as well. So, yeah, there's a lot of discussion about whether or not that's actually something that we want for our sport.

Sue Anstiss: 18:49

And what do you feel in terms of that governance within the UK, within England? Is that something that you personally would like to see? And I guess then more access to funding and the kind of growth and development of the sport too?

Kristen Dusting: 19:02

I just think it's a tricky one because we've been going now for what? 17, 18 years and we've just not really seen any access to that. So, yes, I would love there to be funding, but I'm not entirely sure how we go about that and it's kind of not my expertise at the moment. Anyway, I think maybe 10, 12 years ago I was very, very interested in that side of things, but at this point in my career I'll leave that to the others.

Sue Anstiss: 19:42

And how successful is London Brawling as a team.

Kristen Dusting: 19:46

We are the most successful European team. We have been trailblazers for the sport. When we started we just had this goal and ambition to be the first international team that was part of the WFTDA, and at that point the WFTDA was only American and we kind of got in with them and wanted to show them that we thought we were pretty good and we brought a team out from the States to play and had a great score against them and then eventually we were invited to participate in regional tournaments in the States. Then we were the first non-US team to make it to both the playoffs so the US playoffs and then the championships. We have been, I believe, at four championships like so global championships in our time. We have sadly not won a medal at any of those ones. We continually finished fourth, so like the worst place to finish. We have had the opportunity to win bronze a number of times and not done it. So yeah, we are team four forever.

Sue Anstiss: 21:10

And despite the fourth places, what are your most memorable moments or can I highlight of your career?

Kristen Dusting: 21:16

To come to mind, I think, the first time that we made it to champs we kind of had gotten to this stage where every year we had upped our previous year's achievement. So the first year that we made it to the regional playoffs in the States we came in ranked tenth and no one thought we should have been there and all of that sort of stuff and we finished fifth. So people were like, oh okay, maybe these guys are pretty good. And then the next year I think we just missed out on playing off for the game where you could go to champs, and then the year after it was close. So we just kind of had this build year after year. And then we had this year where we knew this is the year that we're going to make it to champs, and we played a team called Rose City who are based in Portland, oregon. We played them during the season and we'd lost quite badly to them, by about 40 points or something. So then they did the draw for the regional playoffs and it was being held in Fort Wayne, indiana. So we get to go to all of these very exotic places in the middle of nowhere in America and they did the draw and the first team that we had to play was Rose City, and so we had to beat Rose City to progress through the bracket, to potentially make it to champs. So we're like, okay, this is our nemesis team. We lost to them four months ago. How are we going to beat them? And the whole build up was phenomenal. We just had all of the whole of Europe was supporting us and it just felt like this building. It was amazing. And so we ended up beating them in an absolute nail biter by about three points. Where it was controversial and the game was over and everyone was looking at the scoreboard to see if the no one really knew how many points had been scored, and we ended up beating them by three points, which meant that I mean, we still had to play some other teams to make it through to champs, but they were actually the hardest team in the bracket and we knew that. And that moment when we knew that we were going to champs for the first time, was absolutely incredible. I'm going to cry now.

Kristen Dusting: 23:43

And then my second was World Cup 2014. We were playing against Team USA, and I mean Team USA, absolute powerhouse. They'd beaten everyone else in the whole World Cup, all the games by like 500 points. So we weren't going to beat them but we were hoping to have a good game against them. And we played in this incredible stadium in Dallas, like proper American stadium, with massive seating, probably like 4000 capacity.

Kristen Dusting: 24:16

We did have an absolutely incredible game against them and it was like the very last jam, my kind of best teammate friend. I knew she was retiring after that game. We were both on the track at the same time and we kind of looked at each other in the eye just before the play started. I had to look away because I knew I was going to cry. She had the most incredible jam against Team USA. The best of the best players scored points and the final whistle went. It was just this amazing moment where everyone from our team just went and jumped on top of her like a massive dog pile. It just felt like the most. It felt like we'd won. It was kind of like Team USA who even are they? It just felt the most connection with this group of people that we'd been through so much together, 10 years of building everything. So to come out with a silver medal but also just to celebrate this person, and this moment felt amazing.

Sue Anstiss: 25:34

Thank you so much. Beautiful, memorable moments. That wasn't what I was expecting, but that is lovely. I think that says so much about the sport as well, too, doesn't it? Those are the moments that mean so much to you.

Kristen Dusting: 25:45

Oh, 100%. When I think about what the sport has given me and what it means to me, it is those connections and the people, and going through those challenges together and building something, creating something with this group of people, is absolutely incredible.

Sue Anstiss: 26:10

You talk about that success of the US team. Is the sport perceived differently out there? Does it have more awareness? Are there more facilities for it? How is it different to? Why are we not world champions?

Kristen Dusting: 26:22

Definitely facilities 100%. Every little team in the States has either a permanent venue that they train at. We're stuck with little pokey sports halls where we're constantly fighting the badminton mafia for space and, yeah, it's very difficult finding venues. We're still training in the same venue that we've been training in the entire time, which just makes it difficult to grow. We have a lot of people that want to play the sport, but as a completely volunteer-run organization, we're bound by the amount of venue, space and time that we can get, which is, quite frankly, never enough. So, yeah, I think in the States, facilities, yeah, definitely a lot better. Even very, very small towns will still have incredible spaces where they can train in.

Sue Anstiss: 27:16

And is that issue around facilities which makes me cross, because I think there should be can't be that hard just the sports halls, school halls, etc. But is that the same across the country? Is that something that's faced across the UK?

Kristen Dusting: 27:27

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think, being in London, everyone wants sports halls. So I mean, I don't want to say that it's particularly difficult for us here, but from what I know of all other teams, yes, having adequate venues to train in is extremely difficult. I mean we train in far Northwest London. If you live in South London, some people have got an hour and a half two hour commute both ways just to come to training. Yeah, so it is across the board. Yeah, very difficult. And I mean I think with I had the privilege when I moved back to Melbourne for a couple of years, kind of 2009, and we ended up being able to hire our own warehouse, so to which they still train into this day and, funnily enough, the team from Melbourne went and won the World Championships a couple of years ago. So, definitely, having having your own facilities means you can train more, train harder, have a whole program that develops from the ground up, which we just unfortunately can't do.

Sue Anstiss: 28:42

Why not? This is making me cross-list talking to you.

Kristen Dusting: 28:44

I'm thinking why is it not growing more Because you?

Sue Anstiss: 28:46

feel everyone's looking for that inclusive, supportive something a bit different to get women into the game. So what is it that you think that's prevented that historically? Is it because it's you can skate around, skate a ledge? You haven't had that kind of governance in place to get that. Is it for people heart back to the historical side that we talked about that kind of entertainment and spectacle, that I don't see it as a serious sport with a pipeline through.

Kristen Dusting: 29:15

I think people just don't really even know that much about us. You do get the occasional sports hall that don't want people roller skating because it'll mark their floor, which is not true but really you're just one of many sports that are vying for time, from the community volleyball team to the badminton guys For sports halls. You're just one of a million sports that wants to book the hall. I mean, our ideal situation is that we would have a permanent venue, but I'm not sure of our financial situation being able to do that, and to my knowledge, we've only ever received one grant, one funding grant, and that was actually like a COVID recovery grant from Sports England, and so our one grant that we'd received was when we weren't actually doing anything, and that was really just funds to kind of keep us trucking along, being able to pay our bills whilst we weren't doing anything.

Sue Anstiss: 30:19

And how open is the sport to those that just want to take part recreationally? Do you need to be a good skater to come and get involved?

Kristen Dusting: 30:26

No. So we train people from teaching them how to skate all the way through. We say you don't know how to, you don't have to know how to skate, and that's 100% true. So we teach you to skate and we kind of teach you like the non-contact roller derby skills that then would be required to go through the process. So we have three teams within our organization our A team, b team, c team and then we have kind of our group of pool skaters who are the ones like learning to play the game. I would love, and I think we would love, for us to have the capacity to have a completely recreational team, you know like non-competitive sort of teams, but we just do not have the venue space. The time again, as a volunteer led organization, you need to have someone that wants to take that on. You know there's no paid positions in what we do. But yeah, our team is like quite competitive, but 100% there are other teams. You know that people can join that can play more recreationally definitely.

Sue Anstiss: 31:31

And the sport appears to be hugely accessible, especially welcoming the LGBTQ plus community. Has that always been the case, and is that the same across the world for the sport?

Kristen Dusting: 31:42

Yeah, I think it has. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think we could have a, have a competition here with a few sports, but I dare say it's the gayest sport that exists Absolutely always been loudly inclusive and yes, I would say that is the same globally. Obviously, there are there are some countries where that is not okay to be out in that way, but I think we all know that it is a place that you can be safe, find community, be included. Yeah, absolutely Fantastic.

Sue Anstiss: 32:24

And I also read that Roll-Drop is very much a sport that's fantastic for mental health as well too. Is that something that you've seen with the teammates and players over the years?

Kristen Dusting: 32:34

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I'd say it's also a place where you know we're like, very inclusive and aware of mental health as well. I think it's a place that you're playing the sport, but you've also got community, you've also got the opportunity to. You know, we all kind of have a role in running the organization. So for a lot of people it gives you purpose, it gives you friends, it gives you a support network. Of course, you know any form of exercise is going to be good for your mental health as well. I think for myself I wasn't quite aware of just how much I needed it for my mental health, but when I kind of look back, when I started and all the years that I was training three or four times a week, I felt great. I felt really great. And then with COVID, when suddenly there was nothing, I was like what's like? I really noticed it, really noticed it, which was kind of definitely a learning curve for me.

Sue Anstiss: 33:48

And can you tell me about you, I guess, aside of the active skating, in terms of the shop that you run and all that you've done there? So tell us about it where it is, how it can find you.

Kristen Dusting: 33:59

So I own a roller skate shop called Double Thrust Gates. It's in Kings Cross in London. Basically, I moved back here from Melbourne and was like God, what am I gonna do with my life? At that stage I was cutting hair, I'd owned a barber shop, but that wasn't what I wanted to do with my life and I just sort of thought, oh, I wonder if I could open a roller skate shop. And got talking to a teammate of mine who happened to have owned an online roller skate shop in New Zealand and within four weeks we'd opened a roller skate shop. So that was 2013. I say we opened a roller skate shop. Actually, our entire team opened the roller skate shop for us, because one of our teammates was like oh, I'm a shop designer. Someone else was like, oh, I'm a graphic designer, you know? Oh, I know someone that's got this and I can drill holes in your wall, and so basically, our entire team opened our roller skate shop for us.

Sue Anstiss: 35:06

Excellent. How's it going a few years on?

Kristen Dusting: 35:10

Good. I mean, we're probably one of the only businesses that flourished during COVID us and bicycles so we've actually now expanded. When we first opened, we did just roller derby stuff, so we were niche within a niche within a niche. But we've seen an explosion in roller skating in general in the UK since COVID. So now we do all types of disciplines. So whether that's recreational you know, skating in the park at the roller disco, jam skating or dance skating, which is like kind of break dancing on skates, is huge in the UK Ramps and like park skating, yeah, it's huge as well. So, yeah, now we do the whole lot.

Sue Anstiss: 35:51

That's fantastic. I'm just gonna find you Can find me next time I'm in London, Kings Cross.

Kristen Dusting: 35:55

Definitely.

Sue Anstiss: 35:58

And I guess, just in closing, what would you say to people Anyone listened to this podcast thinking about getting involved in roller derby? What would be your kind of positioning of a sport to them?

Kristen Dusting: 36:09

Oh God, I mean, it is transformative. So if you're looking for community, friends, exercise like the funnest thing that you can do, then absolutely try roller derby. It has changed my life and I just couldn't recommend it highly enough.

Sue Anstiss: 36:40

Well, if that doesn't make you want to try roller derby, I'm not sure what would. Thanks so much to Kristen for such a great introduction to the sport. If you enjoyed the podcast, there are over 160 episodes featuring conversations with women's sports trailblazers that are free to listen to on all podcast platforms or you can find them on our website at fearlesswomencouk. As well as listening to all the podcasts on the website and finding out more about the guests, you can also discover the Women's Sport Collective, a free, inclusive network for all women working in sport. The whole of my book Game On: the Unstoppable Rise of Women's Sport is also free to listen to on the podcast. Every episode of Series 13 is me reading a chapter of the book.

Sue Anstiss: 37:29

Thanks once again to Sport England for backing the game changers and the Women's Sport Collective through the National Lottery, and to Sam Walker at what Goes On Media, who does such a great job as our executive producer. Thank you also to my brilliant colleague at Fearless Women, kate Hannon. You can find the game changers on all podcast platforms and please follow us now so you don't miss out on future episodes. If you have a moment to leave a rating or a review, that would be fantastic, as it really does make a difference to help us reach new audiences. Do come and say hello On social media, but you'll find me on LinkedIn, twitter and Instagram at Sue Anstis, the game changers Fearless Women in Sport.