Hannah Cockcroft is one of Britain’s most successful para-athletes who burst onto the world stage in 2010, breaking 9 wheelchair sprinting world records. She went on to win two golds at the London Paralympic games, with three more at the 2016 games in Rio and two in Tokyo 2021.
In the summer of 2022, Hannah won gold in the T33/34 100m at the Commonwealth Games in Birmingham, setting a new Games record and completing the set – with Gold medals at Every. Major. Athletics. Championships.
It’s no wonder that Hannah was awarded an MBE in 2013 for her services to athletics which was followed by an OBE in last year New Year’s Honours. Hannah talks candidly about the loneliness she experienced as a disabled child with no visible role models and how that's now changing, how it felt to discover wheelchair racing, the challenges of classification in para sport and how it felt be beaten for the first time in 7 years. It's a fascinating conversation with a true trailblazer in women's sport.
During the conversation we reference an ITV clip with a young Hannah and her first Barbie in a wheelchair, you can find it here.
Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.
Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media
A Fearless Women production
Hannah Cockcroft is one of Britain’s most successful para-athletes who burst onto the world stage in 2010, breaking 9 wheelchair sprinting world records. She went on to win two golds at the London Paralympic games, with three more at the 2016 games in Rio and two in Tokyo 2021.
In the summer of 2022, Hannah won gold in the T33/34 100m at the Commonwealth Games in Birmingham, setting a new Games record and completing the set – with Gold medals at Every. Major. Athletics. Championships.
It’s no wonder that Hannah was awarded an MBE in 2013 for her services to athletics which was followed by an OBE in last year New Year’s Honours. Hannah talks candidly about the loneliness she experienced as a disabled child with no visible role models and how that's now changing, how it felt to discover wheelchair racing, the challenges of classification in para sport and how it felt be beaten for the first time in 7 years. It's a fascinating conversation with a true trailblazer in women's sport.
During the conversation we reference an ITV clip with a young Hannah and her first Barbie in a wheelchair, you can find it here.
Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.
Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media
A Fearless Women production
Hannah Cockcroft: Maintaining motivation throughout your sporting career
Sue Anstiss
Hello and welcome to the Game Changers podcast, where you'll hear from trailblazing women across sport who do so much to drive change and challenge the status quo for women and girls everywhere. I'm Sue Anstiss, and I'd like to start with a big thank you to our partners Sport England, who support the Game Changers through a national lottery award.
My guest today is one of Britain's most successful para-athletes. Hannah Cockcroft burst onto the world stage in 2010, breaking wheelchair sprinting world records. She went on to win two golds at the London Paralympic Games with three more at the 2016 games in Rio and two in Tokyo last year.
This summer, Hannah won gold in the T 33/34, 100 meters at the Commonwealth Games in Birmingham, setting a new games record and completing the set with gold medals at every major athletics championships.
It's no wonder that Hannah was awarded an MBE in 2013 for her services to athletics, which was followed by an OBE in last year's New Year's Honors.
Hannah, that Commonwealth Gold Medal really was the elusive one, wasn't it? You waited a long time to complete the collection and, and doing it at home in the UK too. I just wonder how you felt going into the games.
Hannah Cockcroft:
You know what, I, I actually felt quite a lot of pressure going into that games. I think it was, it was more pressure in my own head because I knew it was that elusive medal. I knew that probably be my own Commonwealth game. So it was my only chance to get that Commonwealth Gold and it was a home crowd. So, you know, following on from Tokyo, having no crowds, I really wanted to put on a good show. And I think, yeah, I definitely put that pressure on myself. So I was, having all the panics before the race thinking, I'm not ready, I'm not gonna do this. But thankfully it all went right on the night, <laugh>.
Sue Anstiss:
And how did it feel? Can you take us back to how that felt as you, as you finished there?
Hannah Cockcroft:
Oh, you know what, it's, it's a bit of a rubbish answer, but it, it's just relief. I just feel relief when I get out there. And I think when you start your career, it is, it's all excitement. You think, Oh, I've done it like amazing. Now it is literally like oh phew, like another one. I've managed to ticket off a list. I've managed to do it because you know what? The competition's getting so much harder. It's getting so much stronger. Every race is different. And, obviously since London 2012, my events have changed, so London 2012, I raced a hundred meters and the 200 meters, and now at Paralympic level, I race a hundred and the 800, which are two very, very different events. Like you wouldn't ask Usain Bolt to do those two events, but for some reason I think I can do it. So, um, yeah, it's getting harder every games and I do just line up on the line and think out. I hope, I hope I can still do this. <laugh>.
Sue Anstiss:
And you mentioned longer distances there, but you recently took part in the Great North Run wheelchair race too. So how was that for an athlete that, you know, that jumped from 800 even to a half marathon?
Hannah Cockcroft:
It was a terrible idea and I <laugh> wish I never, no, you know what, it was really nice to get involved. It normally doesn't fit very well into my season. but with the Commonwealth Games finishing so early, I had like a month to learn how to do a half marathon <laugh>. So it was even hard. This, this year was the worst year to do it because I haven't even been doing 800 meter training. I've literally just been focusing on the hundred meters, for the Commonwealth Games. and I actually, during the race, got to about 10 miles and I felt okay, my speedo broke at seven miles. I got to 10 and I was like, I feel, I feel alright. I think I can finish this. And I got to about 10 and a half and I genuinely just wanted to cry, like that half a mile made all the difference. And then it was just pain for the last three miles. And I think it made it harder, cause Melanie Woods I was pushing with Mel, uh, were, we were actually really close in our times and we were just pushing each other the whole way. So I, I don't think I was expecting a full out race, but I got one for a full 13 miles that I definitely didn't sign up for. <laugh>.
Sue Anstiss:
I might know the answer to this question before I ask it, but are Marathons, half marathons, something you might do more of in the future? Do you feel? Nope. <laugh>, short
Hannah Cockcroft
Nope. <laugh>, short and sweet. You know what, I would, I would like to do a marathon one day just to say that I've done it and I've ticked that box. but definitely not now. I don't think it would, it would be so counter intuitive to my actual events and oh man, it had hurt so much. <laugh>.
Sue Anstiss:
Yeah,why do it?! I do it. Um, if I can take you back to your childhood, um, dance was your first love really before sports. So can you tell us a little bit more about
Hannah Cockcroft
Yeah, so at three years old, I decided that I wanted to be prima ballerina. That was like my big dream. I was a very girly girl. I loved pink and tutus and anything like that. So yeah, I wanted to be a dancer, which is a really unrealistic aim, for a girl that at that point couldn't even stand up on it. Did like, I had everything strapped to my legs, but you know what? My Mum and Dad are just, they're fantastic people and they, they never saw a barrier in my life. They were always like, Okay, yeah, let's find a way. And you'd think most parents would just go, You know what, no, that's not realistic, you're not doing it. But my parents were like, Okay, well make this happen. And Mum went out and she researched all the dance schools in the local area and obviously had a lot of them laugh her out of the place and just say, oh, come on, look at your little girl, she can't stand up. How's she gonna dance? Um, and one lady, lady called Penny Alexander, she ran a dance school in Halifax called Dance For All. And she said, You know what? I can't teach Hannah ballet. Like no one's gonna teach Hannah ballet, but I will teach her to dance and I'm gonna build this dance class. She called it Creative Dance. And she said, we're just gonna invite people like Hannah or able bodied, they can come and dance and it's gonna be a mix of any kind of dance. And if I put a move in a dance that Hannah can't do, we'll remove it from the dance and we'll go from there. So Penny was actually the lady that initially taught me to walk unaided, that was her first aim, to get me on my feet and, and get me moving, so she used to come along to tumble tots with me and my Mum, and she got me walking. And then I danced withPenny for 17 years after that. And, you know, I danced in shows, I danced on tv, I won awards and Mum always said like, we have to use the word dance very loosely because <laugh>, everyone else was dancing. And I was kind of just in a corner doing my own thing and always, one step behind, you know what? I loved it. And I never felt, she never made me feel like I was doing it wrong or like I was out of time or like, I made the dance look rubbish. Like she just, she just let me get on and for my Mum, it was just a really clever way of getting me to do some physiotherapy, to be fair. I think that was, that was the whole idea, but for me it was just a dream come true. You know, getting on the stage and dressing up and being a part of, you know, a group of girls at all danced. It was a, I loved it. I only stopped cause I started racing on Saturdays, so I had to stop and make a choice.
Sue Anstiss:
And you'd obviously struggled with your health from being a baby, so can you tell us a bit little more about that?
Hannah Cockcroft:
Yeah, so when I was born I had two cardiac arrests, uh, within 24 hours of my birth. The first cardiac arrest left me clinically dead for 20 minutes. and then I was alive for a little while and then, my heart gave up again and basically doctors told my parents just not to expect very much from me, you know, that they had no idea how this was gonna affect me. I had serious brain damage following the heart attacks because of the amount of time that I was not breathing for and yeah, that kind of, that was the guidance that Mum and Dad got. Like, whatever you get is gonna be the best you get, and it did, it left me with several areas of brain damage and then also damage to my nerve endings. So then that led to, weak hips and deformed feet and deform legs and also problems with my fine motor skills. So I can't tie my shoelaces. I have messy, really messy handwriting. I really, it's quite hard for me to write. Yeah, I guess when you've got a list like that <laugh>, it don't really give you very much to go off does it? <laugh>.
Sue Anstiss:
And how did those challenges with that disability affect your everyday life? as a young child?
Hannah Cockcroft:
I think as a young child, you know what, I never really growing u, p noticed it. Everyone just treated it like that that's Hannah. Like, that's how Hannah does things. And I grew up, I've got two brothers, one older, one younger. Obviously my, my younger brother is just, he's always known me as this, so he is always known life with a disabled sister. And so he's literally like my, my first hand man. Anything I can't do, Daniel does. And it's so nice. You know, we, we've traveled all over the world together, we went to Tokyos together to race just before the Paralympic Games., he almost knows to do something before I've even asked him or or need to do it. And I think that's just how I grew up. Like, everyone was one step ahead of me at all times, they knew what I needed, they knew what would make me do it. So I never actually noticed I couldn't really do things, which was, I guess it's a luxury for a disabled person to feel like that. I hated my wheelchair growing up. I hated it. I refused to touch it, refuse to sit in it. And it was ultimately because I didn't know anybody else in a wheelchair. I didn't know anybody else with a disability. I wanted in a very able bodied world, and I wanted to be like everybody else, as everyone does. Everyone wants to be like everybody else. So when my Dad's kind of worked around that, you know, I I was in a push chair until I was 10. I got carried. I, I just opt to get carried. I'd hold onto people's hands, anything, anything, so that I didn't have to sit in the wheelchair.
Sue Anstiss:
So you did have a wheelchair at home that you, that was available to use. But…
Hannah Cockcroft:
Yeah, I had a, a very big heavy, I couldn't push it myself, wheelchair. And I think that's what put me off. Um, I've always been quite an independent person. I've always been brought up to be quite, I'm gonna do this myself. And when I sat in that wheelchair, I couldn't do it myself. So, you know, if it was a distance that I couldn't walk, I could definitely walk then yeah, I would just get someone's carry me or I'd find any other way to not sit in that wheelchair. I think I was a nightmare child to be fair <laugh>.
Sue Anstiss:
And I've, I've heard you say that, that growing up, you felt like there was nobody else like you in your world, which feels so isolating. And I guess as a, as a mother, thinking of your, you know, children too, how did you even process that as a, as a young child?
Hannah Cockcroft:
Yeah, I guess. So when you growing up in a world like that where you, you don't, you know, I didn't have any friends that had disabilities. Mum and Dad didn't know anybody who had a disability. The TV didn't show it, It was not in any magazines or anything. There was, there was no coverage of disability and definitely not the Paralympic games. So it was really, really lonely and I have a just before my fifth birthday, my Mum had a friend in America and he rang my Mum and said, Oh, they've just released this Barbie doll in a wheelchair. It was, it was called Share a smile Becky Doll., I think it'd be great for Hannah. And my Mum was like, okay, I'll, I'll see if they do 'em here. And they, they didn't release them in the UK at all.
So my Mum wrote to Toys R Us in America and just said, I have a five year old who's just about to be her fifth birthday. She refuses to use her wheelchair, she hates it. She thinks she's the only person in the world with a disability and she loves Barbie. Is there anything you can do to get one of those dolls to be like, I'll pay anything. so yeah, for my fifth birthday, Toys R Us sent me S’hare a smile’ Barbie Doll, I mean, it must have been a slow news day cause it made all the <laugh> the local news, but I actually have a, a clip, from, I think it's like ITV calendar and it's me saying a five year old me saying, Oh, now I have Barbie, I'm not alone anymore. And actually when I, I it got dug out of the archives like last year, just one of the journalists just sent it and said, Oh, have you ever seen this?
And I'd never seen it. and it actually made me tear up. Like the girl on the screen wasn't me. It wasn't who I am today. And I, I don't remember feeling like that, but obviously to, to sit on tele and actually say that is, that's heartbreaking. I, I would hate to see that on TV now, but it's obviously how I felt and yeah, this Barbie doll was, was my reason to sit in a wheelchair and, and to feel okay with it, it's mad that a doll had to make me do that, but just…
Sue Anstiss:
But it shows the power of it doesn't it really. I did see that clip, I'll share a link in the show notes too because it is so emotional and how amazing that your Mum, I love your Mum <laugh> that your Mum kinda worked but work so hard to go and, you know, get that, make that happen for you that clearly then did have that impact.
Hannah Cockcroft:
Ah, yeah. My parents are amazing and I think, you know, like you said, as a Mum yourself, you, you do anything, You do absolutely anything to make your child feel welcome and, and feel part of the world. And yeah, I guess she, she obviously noticed that it was hard and I think when you're so young you don't notice, you know, the authorities wanted me to go to a special school and my parents fought tooth and nails saying, you know, there's nothing academically wrong with her. She can learn, she just can't walk very well. Like, she, she's really clever. She'll do everything you want, just give her a chance. And they fought so hard to get me into mainstream school. Then I, you know, I went on and just did really well in my GCSEs and my A Levels and it's, it's crazy how my legs were deciding what, what kind of, academic studies I could actually do. It was, it was mad!
Sue Anstiss:
And as you say, you grew up in that, in that very able bodied world of school, but what was sport like at that school?
Hannah Cockcroft:
I didn't do sport at school. Sport was not a… sport for me was sitting on the side and watching it was sitting in the library reading a book. School, my one day of sport a year was sports day. They brought in a race called the Crab Race, which was basically crawling sideways and I was really good at it and I always won <laugh>. So that was my, that was my one, one pe lesson a year, was crawling sideways down the field. I used to love it. And yeah, secondary school was slightly different. Kind of the first year was, was the same as primary. Hannah doesn't do sport. And I had this one amazing teacher, called Mrs. Daniel., and she just kind of said, No, this isn't, this isn't right. You know, she, she can do these things. So she um, she brought in the local wheelchair basketball team to do a, a demo for the rest of the class and that was my first ever taste of, of Paralympic sport. It's the first time I ever met another disabled person and I was 12 years old, so pretty old by that point. And, yeah, it just blew my world ride up wide open. When she did that, I obviously met the coach, ended up playing for that basketball team for six years and then from there school kind of started to realize like, you know, I wasn't asking to do cross country. I didn't wanna go running around muddy fields. I'm not, I'm not crazy stupid
Sue Anstiss:
<laugh>.
Hannah Cockcroft:
But, you know, small adaptions could be made so that I could join in with some things. So that's kind of where I like started for me, my teacher, Mrs. Daniels. She, she said, well, everyone else is standing up and throwing a discus, throwing a shot put, we're just gonna bring a chair outside and Hannah will sit down and do it. And, you know, from there they just started to realize that it's not that difficult to get to disabled people involved. It's not, we're not asking you to reinvent the wheel. We're asking you to make a very small adoption. and yeah, it's, it was such a small thing that you kind of look back now and think, why did no one think of that sooner? Why did it take so many years for me to be involved? But I think until that point just, just Mum and Dad had fought so hard to get me to where I was. You kind of have to pick your battles, don't you? But yeah, that sitting in that chair on, on PE and and throwing the discus was the start of everything you see today, really.
Sue Anstiss:
And, what is things like in schools now for disabled children in Britain? Are they much better? You
Hannah Cockcroft:
You know what it, I feel like it really depends. I think they are getting better mostly because you can now see things like the Paralympic games openly on the tv. So disabled children know what's on offer for them. They know what they have the opportunity to do. And um, that kind of gives you that little bit of a push when you're a parent to go actually, you know, we, we know this is an option, they can do this. but I still visit schools, especially primary schools where you go in and they say to me, I don't do PE not allowed to do PE. And then you kind of have to bring the teachers to one side and say, look like there's, there's the tiniest thing you can do to make them feel involved. It doesn't have to be the lesson that you are running, just be creative, just think outside of the box. So yeah, I think things are improving, but there's still so much further they could go.
Sue Anstiss:
And you talked about discus, that's fantastic finding athletics and, and track and field. So what was the next stage? When did you first find wheelchair racing?
Hannah Cockcroft:
So when I was 14 I got invited to a big UK event. It's called the School Games. It's run by the Youth Sport Trust that are a fantastic charity. It's like a junior Commonwealth Games because the teams are merged there are able bodied and disabled athletes. so I got invited along to that to represent Yorkshire and Humberside in the seated discus. I won a silver medal there for Yorkshire and that's the first place that I saw wheelchair racing. So off the back of that, youth sport trust said, you know, are you interested? Do you want to go to a come and try day? And at that point I was still just, I just said yes to everything As soon as I found sport, I just said, Yeah, I'll try it. You know, I tried through the basketball club, I tried wheelchair rugby and wheelchair tennis and then, uh, through Youth Sport Trust I tried wheelchair racing and I just, you know, I was 15 years old at this point, point and I just instantly loved it. I just instantly fell in love with the speed of it, with the independence, you know, going out. And I think for me it was, it was the being out there and no one could help you once you were out there. I'd lived 15 years of my life, always avoiding a wheelchair, holding someone's hand, asking for help, needing the help. And when I got in that wheelchair, that racing wheelchair, I just felt free for the first time. Just felt this sense of freedom that, you know, I could go as quick as I wanted. I could go for as long as I physically could. No one could tell me to slow down because the whole point is going quick and I didn't have to stop, you know, there was no end to the court. There was no end of range where I could throw it to. So yeah, I literally, that was me. Like I had the come and try day, the following week I was up at Tanni Gray Thompson's house, getting a coach and getting a race chair and, and getting everything. And that was me. I've, I've literally done it every week since <laugh>, every day since probably.
Sue Anstiss:
That's wonderful. That's wonderful. That's so lovely. I love that description of the freedom and the speed, you know, you articulate that so well in terms of what that gave you that first experience too. And I love that we've had Sue Campbell and Ali Oliver from the Youth Sport Trust have been guests on the game changers too. So yeah, big fans of the youth sports trust,
Hannah Cockcroft:
Brilliant women, brilliant women, <laugh>
Sue Anstiss:
And a fantastic charity. So from that experience of enjoying that and, and obviously meeting Tanni too, when was your first proper race? When did you start taking it more seriously?
Hannah Cockcroft:
So my first proper race was actually the following year. I went back to the school games as a wheelchair racer. Oh wow. And I remember it because I lined up against all the girls that I'd watched the previous year and I beat them all. So it was great. <laugh>,
Sue Anstiss:
You had this incredible rise too, and I watched your races from 2012 and you were so far ahead of the opposition. So what do you think made you so incredibly successful so early? Was it pure raw talent or your fitness and power?
Hannah Cockcroft :
I think a lot of it was just hunger. I have this inbuilt thing where someone tells me I can't do something. I will absolutely go out of my way to prove them wrong. And I think 15 years of just being told you can't do sport, they just built up, cause I always had a love of sport, you know, my, my younger brother’s a really keen rugby player, so he played from the age of six and I used to go along and watch every rugby game and just sit on the side and, and just think, I wish I could be part of a team. I wish I could have that kind of, I dunno, camaraderie with that group of friends and, and then when they won a match, I wish I had something that I could celebrate that way.
And I never had that out that outlet. So as soon as I found it and as soon as I found something I was good at, I think it was, I think it was quite good quite quickly, but as soon as I had that, I just wanted to make the most of it. And I think a lot of it is down to, you know, as well, Tanni and her husband Ian. So Ian was my first coach and they, they didn't take it easy on me. Like, they were like, if you wanna do this, this, you're gonna have to put the time in and you're gonna have to work hard. Like, there's no skipping sessions, there's no half hearting sessions. Like this is what we do. So my first ever training weekend, literally the weekend after I'd done that come and try, they had me out on the roads pushing like 10 miles. Like, and, and there was no, there was no question about it. It was like, if you wanna do this, you're gonna do it. And so I think from right from the beginning I was taught like, if you wanna be good, you put the time in, you put the effort in, you work hard. And then when you've just had that in built from right from the start, that was what every session was then I think, you know, when you start a sport, a lot of it, it's like, I'm just gonna go and enjoy it. Whereas I start the sport and it was like, it's straight, I'm gonna be good at this. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be good at this. so yeah, I think, you know, uh, 2007 was when I first sat in the race chair. 2008 was that first race, um, then 2010 was my first world record.
So it, it all went quite quick, but I just built it into my life straight away. You know, as soon as we'd taken that chair away on that first weekend I was training, you know, every day before school, every day after school, weekends, Mum and Dad were having to pick me up in lunch breaks at college to, to take me to training, Just, just whenever we could fit it in, that was me. And at the time it was just I love this, I want, I want to constantly do it. It wasn't even like, I'm gonna work hard. It was just like, I, I love it. I love the feeling of being in that race chair. So yeah, just wanted to do it all the time. I guess it's like a video game, but a healthier one. <laugh>
Sue Anstiss:
Real passionate, an addiction to it, isn't it? And so much you said about the impact of London 2012 for Paralympic sport, but when you think back, what are your biggest memories from that event?
Hannah Cockcroft:
Oh man, London 2012 is like, if I could go back to any time in my life, I would, I would pick that every day and I think I will for my whole life. I think you can add anything. And I'll still pick London 2012 because it was just incredible. I remember going into the village for the first time. I was only 20 when I went to my first game. So I had, I had no idea what to expect to be honest. And I just remember going into the village and everything was so big and so new and so exciting and we got like taken on a little show around and they took us into food hall for the first time. And I genuinely don't think any athlete will ever be able to explain to anyone who hasn't been in it, just how exceptional <laugh> food hall at an Olympics …
Sue Anstiss:
It's funny cause I do have had real privilege to talk to many athlete, Olympians and Paralympians and so many of them do talk about the food hall.
Hannah Cockcroft:
It's just so big and there's so much choice and I just remember sitting there and thinking, Oh man, I can get a Sunday roast at 2:00 AM if I want it while I'm here. <laugh>, that is an overwhelming, like it's a massive pitfall for a lot of athletes. You have to have a lot of self control. I also remember just sitting there and thinking, I have never seen this many disabled people in my life. And it sounds, it sounds stupid, you're at the Paralympic games, of course you're gonna be surrounded by disabled people. But I think just when it, it still feels, it still feels so new. I'd, I'd been in a sport, like five years at that point. I'd been to one World Championships, but other than that I'd only done like local national championships. so there was still like a limited number of girls that you raced against, so you were only competing against girls in Britain. It was just such a wow moment, just such a, I can't believe I'm here. and then you just, you just wander around the village. Like the village was incredible. And then I think my overriding memory is, we used to go down and train at the warmup track. So I remember the day before my race, we were training on the, the warmup track. I was with my coach, Pete Ericson was my coach for 2012, and I could hear this noise and it just sounded like quite a loud buzzing, you know, like when you can't tune a radio in, that's what it sounded like. I just turned to Peter and what is that noise? It is driving me insane. And he just went, um, Hannah, that's the crowd. You should probably get used to that. And I just remember thinking like, where we're not even in the stadium, how can we hear the crowd? We are quite far from the stadium. And it just, yeah, it, it terrified me a little bit but also made me just so, so excited that I was gonna get the chance to go out in front of that and I was gonna yeah, get the chance to race in front of that. Cause I quite like attention. So it worked quite well for me. <laugh>
Sue Anstiss:
And, and from London 2012, you went on to have incredible success. So unbeaten for seven years I think. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And as you mentioned earlier, the IPC like to change the event for major championships. So clearly frustrating when those your favorite distances. You said that 2 and the 400 meters were removed from, Paralympic categories. How are those decisions made? Who makes those decisions?
Hannah Cockcroft:
Um, so the International Paralympic Committee make them by themselves. I genuinely think they made that decision because they didn't want the same athlete winning both races. So they put, they put the offer out of a, a sprint and a middle distance. But I had other ideas and yeah, I really didn't wanna do the eight when it was announced. I was like, I'll just do the one, I'm not interested in the eight. And by that point I, I changed to my current coach Jenny Banks and Jenny was like, Yeah, no, you don't get to make that decision. You, you're doing both. so that was argument over, She just told me what I was doing and I did the work. And the work was, it was hard. It was really hard to learn how to do in 800 meters. It's so, so different to anything else. And it's so far I still find it such a long way <laugh>.
But we just worked on it, you know, we, we still had the hundred and the 200 at the 2013 World Championships, so I could go there. I could just be a sprinter, but we were already working on the 800 meters at that point. And then, Swansea, the European Championships in 2014 was my, my first 800 meters. and it was ultimately it was me and, my teammate at the time, Mel Nichols, we were like the front runners but Mel actually preferred the middle distance to the sprint. So she'd been working on this for years. Like this was her favorite event. And I just remember Jenny saying, Right, all you have to do is sit behind Mel and just sprint at the end. That's exactly what I did. And I just remember when I did it. Mel saw we so, so loud, but I was like, Sorry, I don't know how to race this event. Thankfully I've, I've got a lot better since then and I, I, I do my own work now, I promise. But, um, yeah, we have to do a few dirty tactics to learn it <laugh>.
Sue Anstiss:
That's fascinating, isn't it, in terms of the classification and the decisions on races and so on. So is it not, it's not the same for male and female, like it's done…?
Hannah Cockcroft:
No, so the men, uh, in my classification get the, I think they have the 100, 400, 800. So they actually even have more events I guess with the Paralympics. There's so many classifications, there's so many events that could run, that the IPC have to then select, I guess which ones are the gonna be the strongest events to run. So who's, who's gonna enter the most events, um, but also try and make as many Paralympic champions as possible. But, I ruined their plan <laugh>.
Sue Anstiss:
And what's the gender equality like in, in Paralympic sport? You see the same number of events?
Hannah Cockcroft:
Yeah, I still say the women are a little down. so the, the new, uh, Paralympic program for 2024 has actually just been announced and they have actually increased the number of women's events quite substantially, which is exciting. So for example, they got rid of, the T 33 men's a hundred meters and they put a women's T 3,300 meters in instead. Simply cuz the men's event didn't have enough numbers. So fingers crossed the women can fill the race. And it's, it's this, it's this difficult thing, isn't it about, there's no point in having a race if there's only two or three people lining up in it. But actually if we don't have the race, then people can't see people like them and they can't get, get involved in the sport and they're not inspired to get involved in the sport.
So it, it is kind of like a double edge sword where there aren't enough people racing it so the race gets taken out so that people can't join the race because there's no race there. So yeah, hopefully the women fill it and, and that's enough event for the girls that we can keep, but yeah, I guess it is all down to numbers. Like when you get into the higher classifications, the T54s so, um, people like David Weir or, um, I dunno, Shelley Woods, they tend to have every event. So they've got the a hundred, 400, 8, 15, 5K and marathon and I kind of look at that and think, oh, I'd like a few more events, Well, yeah, it's, it is an ongoing conversation with the IPC that, you know, the events, the event groups that have higher support needs. So my event would, would just about fall into that. They need more events because ultimately the Pyramid Games is, it's for all disabled people. It's not just for the most able and okay, we might not be the quickest and we might not be the most fascinating to watch, you know, I I would much rather watch a T 54 Men's 1500 because there's probably gonna be a crash at some point and it's all very exciting. But ultimately sport’s for everyone and we need to replicate that through the program. So I think, yeah, I think the IPC are working really, really hard on doing that and making that more, obvious in their programming. Um, but there's always gonna be backlash from athletes we're such difficult people to work with and so aware of it. <laugh> we're never happy
Sue Anstiss:
<laugh> and you had that amazing unbeaten record for so long. So how did it feel after all of that to finally not, not win a race? I think we had that expectation of you, didn't we? That oh, Hannah isn't the race, you know, she's gonna win. So there's that added pressure too. But how did it feel when, other athletes coming through?
Hannah Cockcroft:
It felt horrible. It felt like my world had ended. And I genuinely think at the time, like just crossing that line, it didn't feel that bad. I was just like, Okay, this is what happens in athletics and that I was okay with it. It was more other people's reactions that made it, that made it horrible. It was Carrie O’Danigan that, finished my own beaten streak. She was the first girl to beat me in seven years and she's actually still the only girl to have ever beaten me in my career. She's, she's beaten me a handful of times. So I guess that's what a rivalry is, but you know what, it made, it made me even more hungry, you know, it made me realise that people were coming through. But at the time, yeah, just crossing that finish line, I was shocked, understandably, but I was like, okay, this is cool.
And then just, just the way people reacted, like people were like, Oh, you're rubbish. Oh, like everyone ran over to Carrie and it was this massive celebration and people were literally like not cheering that she'd won, cheering that she'd beaten me, which felt really, it felt really targeted. It felt more like a, a hit campaign against me rather than an actual celebration of her achievement. I mean, when it happened, it was, it was literally like a little national event. If she hadn't beaten me, no would ever have known that race had gone on but it was in the papers, it was everywhere and it was all just like really horrible headlines of how, you know, I'd lost my touch. And that was my career finished. And, you know, I was only, I was probably, how old was I, I was 24, so I was still really young to, to be getting my head around things like that. And yeah, it was, it was not great. It was not a nice time at all. <laugh>
Sue Anstiss:
It's interesting though, isn't it, through a media and a public perspective, I think people like Serena Williams and others, but it's almost when someone's had that such longevity of winning there, is that turning against or wanting to see them overcome in some way rather than keep celebrating the amazing champion and recognising that it is still, you know, incredible in terms of what you're achieving
Hannah Cockcroft:
Yeah, I think it's, like I, I kind of get it, but at the same time, like, I think it is, it is a language that's used. It's always so and so has beaten so and so, and the celebration has always the fact that they've beaten the other person rather than the fact that they're just won. Whereas, you know, when I win, it's, it's never, oh, Hannah's beaten Carrie, It's, it's always like, Oh, Hannah's won again. And it's always like, I got, hang on a second, why do we always make, it sounds like it's not an achievement. It's, it's a massive achievement. You know, the rivalry is there. She has the potential to beat me in every single race that we line up in, but when she wins, it's, it, it is this massive like, Oh wow, she's done it. And, and when I do it, it's like, oh yeah, she's done it again. That's fine. Um, and sometimes it's frustrating, you know, it's really frustrating because you feel like people aren't recognizing the work that actually went into that. People aren't noticing like, yeah, I trained every day to make that happen. I've, I've based my whole life around wheelchair racing, I've not missed a session. Um, yeah, it's,
Sue Anstiss:
It's really interesting…
Hannah Cockcroft:
Yeah, I just think the whole narrative, it has to change and, and it has to be more supportive of, of everyone because ultimately when someone wins, someone doesn't win. And being the person that doesn't win is, is not a nice place to be. And when you then read the language that's, that's used about you for not winning it, it can, Yeah, it's, it's not, it's not great. <laugh>.
Sue Anstiss:
And as we discussed the beginning of the conversation, you've now won kind of everything in terms of medals and championships and constantly setting records too. So what keeps you to keep driving and beating more records? And I guess also what keeps you motivated to keep training so hard day to day?
Hannah Cockcroft:
You know what, I think it, it's changed a lot through my career. What's motivated me. For a long time it was, it was just being the best. I loved winning and I'm not afraid of saying it, it sounds really bigheaded. I trained because I loved to win and I knew that I could win if I kept working the way I was. Then when Carrie beat me, I realised that that had to change because if winning is all that motivates you, then when you don’t win you've got no motivation. So actually going forward for a long time, for a few years it was beating Carrie. That was my motivation. And it sounds horrible, but like I said, that's a rivalry. That's what sometimes you train for. Then we got to lock down obviously in the pandemic. And I suddenly didn't have any races to beat Carrie in. I didn't have any races to win. So actually at that time, if that was my motivation, then I probably would've just stopped pushing. So I realised in that time, actually my motivation is, is enjoyment. It's finding the bits that I enjoy about my sport that I trained for and, and basically taking me myself back 10 years, you know, it's taken me back to when I started, why did I start? I didn't start because I knew that I would win. I didn't start to beat one particular person or a group of girls. I did it cause I loved it. So I think in lockdown, I, I had the opportunity to just move away from programs and timetables and, you know, you have to be ready for this event and you have to then get ready for this and duh da da. I could just do the sessions that I loved and that I enjoyed and I made a lot of changes.
Hannah Cockcroft:
Um, Carrie, Carrie beat me again at the 2018 European Championships. Um, so it's the only major title that I've not that I've won a silver medal in. Um, it's my only major silver medal. And when I came away from that, I made a lot of changes. So I changed S and C coach, I changed my chair, I changed, I moved house, uh, I moved to Chester away from Yorkshire, uh, so that I could move club and I moved club so that I could train with other people. Cause up until that point I trained completely on my own. So for 10 years I trained every day on my own. And it was, it was a lot, it was hard and motivation was hard and it was the best thing that I ever did because actually once I'd found the sessions I enjoyed and lockdown, I then went back to the club and I just found that I, I loved being around other people.
I love that I can go to club and you don't even think about the session that you're doing. You know, I, I train with mainly a group of men, aside from Samantha Kinghorn. So Sammy Sammy also races with K bse. Sammy's one of my best friends, but we're also very, very close in times. So we just challenge each other every single session. We're always pushing each other to get the best out of each other. We're always racing.
And the work that we're doing together is actually helping, you know, wheelchair racing for the women get stronger in Britain because for so long it, it kind of just disappeared a bit. You know, we, when I saw racing, we had so many girls coming through, so many talented young women coming through and just bit by bit for whatever reason, they all stopped. They all dropped off and we went through a real lull. Right now we appear to be bringing more girls into the sport and actually bringing through quite a talented bunch of girls. So there's myself and Sammy and then I mentioned Melanie Woods at the beginning of the chat during the Great North Run. Mel’s only been pushing three years, I think so she's still relatively new, but she's a T 54 Sammy's a T 53, I'm a T 34.
So we're all relatively close in times. And then this year, Eden Rebel Cooper who won the Commonwealth Games marathon, she's really come on in her track racing too. So this year it's been fantastic to have four of us really pushing it out on the track in all the British events, really challenging each other really showing what what we can do and test each other. And I think, yeah, the motivation now is just to see, see what this body can do.
Sue Anstiss (00:43:27):
And it was great this summer to see you competing in the Diamond League in Birmingham. How important do you think it is to see ParaSport integrated in those events in
Hannah Cockcroft (00:43:37):
That way? I think it's so, so important and I think the last few years have shown how possible it is as well. So the first integrated event I did was actually the British Championships in 2020. So during the pandemic British Athletics added the power, uh, disciplines to the British Championships for the first time ever. Like during a time when we literally couldn't do anything, we made integration possible, we made inclusion possible, and it just shows that it could have, it could have always happened. There was no excuse. And it's carried on since then, thankfully. And this year, again, we've, we've seen a massive rise. So, we obviously had Birmingham 2022 that was the Commonwealth Games that were integrated before that we had the Birmingham Diamond League integrated. My boyfriend raced in both Zurich and Lusanne Diamond leagues. They both had a wheelchair race in each my teammates, some of them went out to the Polish Diamond League And that was integrated. There was a integrated race in Cork in Ireland. And it's fantastic to see, but why has it taken this long? Why, why did it need a pandemic in the middle and and everything else for people to actually to go, you know what, athletics is just athletic. It doesn't matter if you're in a wheelchair or if you're running, we're all using the same facilities, same officials, same track and it's so important because it's in what it's, it's giving our sport a new audience that we can reach. So I had a really funny conversation. I coach an athlete, a young athlete, she's called Anya. she's 16 and she raced at the school games this year which is obviously where I started. And she, she won the race and after the race I was handing out the medals and she went, ah, yeah, like, look, we're coming through where like the three next blondes. And I went, What? Who are the three blondes? And she went, You, Sammy and Mel. And I went, Why'd you call us that? And she went, Well you three are blondes, so, and you're always the best in Britains, so you are the three blondes and we’re not blonde, so we're the three brunettes and we're gonna be the next, you. And I was just like how crazy is it that that's how we're being talked about. Like now groups of girls in our sport are going, we're gonna be the next Hannah, Sammy and Mel. Like we, we wanna do what they do. We wanna go and do that. And I think you really, really lose sight of, you know, the opportunities that maybe we're, we're bringing through for, for the young girls that are coming through. And it was just fun. It was so, so funny. Boy, it was fantastic to see that, you know, cause they were like, well you race at the Diamond Leagues and you race at the, the Paralympics together and we wanna do that. And I was just, I'd never really thought about it. Um, so yeah, it is, it's so interesting how important integration is and, and how many more people see that and go, yeah, that's what I wanna do.
Sue Anstiss:
building on that, that opportunity to inspire others. I loved your post on International Women's Day last year. If I can just read a little bit of it back to you. Doing it for the girls that were never encouraged to chase their dreams or never given the right opportunities to do so. Doing it for those that were told it wasn't possible, that they weren't strong enough, determined enough, brave enough, good enough, and doing it to prove so many people wrong. So I really love that and it's great to see how much and how important it is for you to inspire those young girls in the future, you know, in sport and in Para sport too.
Hannah Cockcroft:
You know what, I think for me, I've got to an age now where I realized that I am in a very, very privileged position to make a change, to make a change that women before me haven't had the chance to make. And that can ultimately change the lives of girls that come after me. You know, for, for girls like the girl that I coach, I can change their life with what I do now. And I think, you know, for a long time I always had that question thrown at me like, oh, how's it feel to inspire other people? And I'd always kind of say, I'm not interested in that. I'm doing it cuz I love it and I still love it, but actually the more I love it, the more opportunity I get and the more opportunity I get, the more I actually get to make sure that that's then embedded in the future.
I know that there are still girls out there that are like me, that were told, that are being told at a young age that they can't do things, that they'll never do things I hate the word can't. There's nothing that we can't do. You can do anything and everything that you want to do. We can't do everything, but you can do anything. and I've fallen into such trap a lot, you know, thinking I can do everything. I can be an elite athlete, I can be a TV presenter, I can do this, I can do this. You can't do everything, but you can do absolutely anything in life if you put your mind to it. If you get the right group of people behind you, but you can't do it if you don't have the opportunity. And currently, especially if you disabled women there's, there's just not that much opportunity. So I'm in a place where I can provide it, where I can create it and yeah, I'm always, I mean, I'm quite mouthy anyway, so I just say what I think and it <laugh> sometimes people listen. <laugh>,
Sue Anstiss:
I'm gonna quote you back at yourself again here as well too. But having not wanted to be in your wheelchair as a young girl, you shared such a powerful post on International Day of the Wheelchair and you said after years growing up and avoiding one, I hope my life shows people that wheelchairs are nothing but a mobility aid. Helping over 110 million people worldwide work hard and achieve their dreams. So clearly is really important for you to raise that profile for the challenges wheelchair users face. But how important is it in terms of that day to day access in terms of transport and, you know, being out on a high street, it's just living life really.
Hannah Cockcroft:
Yeah, I think that that's more important to me than anything because I think people, people look at us as elite athletes and they go, Oh, they, they don't have the same difficulties as I do day to day. And the thing is, you know, if, if that shop doesn't have a ramp, then I'm not getting in it just as much as an everyday person isn't getting in it. I haven't got as much of the profile, but I have an opportunity to actually raise that and say, this isn't right. And, and I also wanna change the way people see of wheelchair. You know, I know that I was so terrified of it. It had such a negative connotation growing up that I avoided it. And actually, you know, had I not avoided it, how different would my life have been? How much more would I potentially have been able to do? I'll never know the answer to that, but I hate to think that there are people again like me out there thinking, Oh, I can't be in a wheelchair. It makes me different because ultimately it doesn't, it just makes you more able to do things. I actually did a talk for a company the other, literally the other day and I did my talk and you know, I was saying like how freeing wheelchair racing was and how it was my independence and my freedom. And then the colleagues had the opportunity to, to try some wheelchair basketball actually. And one of the, the people got in the, the wheelchair and like started pushing and went, Oh, how is this freedom? It's horrible. And I kind of went, Well yeah but you, the whole point in this is you can't use your legs, so that's freedom. And she was like, Oh no, I couldn't do this. The thing is, we don't get the choice to not do that. You know what, I can walk a little bit, so maybe sometimes, yeah, I go, I don't want to use my wheelchair today. But there are so, so many people who don't get the choice to go, Oh, this isn't freedom, this is horrible. That's the way we live. And yet it's horrible because you built a basketball court on a, on a hill. Of course it's horrible you were pushing up a hill, but that's the whole point. That's why access and inclusion is so important because it is horrible when you can't get in a shop, it's horrible when the lifts broken. It's horrible when I have to say I can't go to an event because I don't have access. It's horrible that I have to book in advance to get on a train. It's rubbish. It's not freedom, it's not independence, It's relying on people and we don't wanna do it as much as that lady getting in that wheelchair went, Oh, this is horrible. Yeah, it is. Because it wasn't perfect. And I think it's little things like that that hopefully, you know, when she said that, it made her realise, it definitely made her workplace realise, oh, this building isn't, isn't perfect for disabled people. We can make small adaptions, we can make a difference. And so hopefully I went away and, and made a difference to make them realise little things that people do every day, it can actually make the lives of disabled people so much easier and so much more accessible, cause yeah, I might look like I can do anything when I'm out on that athletics track, but things like small hills and curbs are my kryptonite and they can stop me actually going anywhere. So yeah, it's um, it's a big fight. It's a fight that I'm never gonna win on my own, but if you can light a small light around it and make people maybe think a little bit more about it, then yeah, hopefully it'll make a change. You never know <laugh>
Sue Anstiss:
And you've obviously traveled around the world more than most average people, but how does wheelchair access for users in the UK vary from other countries?
Hannah Cockcroft (00:54:11):
I'd say it sits steadily in the middle for example, my, my older brother lives in Finland The wheelchair access there is phenomenal. Like there is not a single shop, a single, a single anything without a ramp, without somewhere for me to get in, their tram system, their train system is completely level access so that I could just wheel on and get on their buses all have ramps. honestly like flawless, I say with Barcelona. So, so easily easy to get around, but then you go to places, I dunno like, like America and they're, they're just like us. You can't really get anywhere. And we are, we are taking steps forward, you know, we are improving in Britain, slowly but shortly. But a lot of it is just people's attitude. And I think, you know what, for a long time post 2012 people really changed their mind about to tell people, but almost, almost to a negative effect. And it sounds really weird to say that, but I actually had a, a strange experience post London, and I was so used to just going down the street and people going like, Oh, you know, you're amazing. What you did was fantastic, well done. And I actually had one disabled lady stop me and she said, I think what you did was fantastic, but you've made my life hell. And I said, I don't understand how I could have affected your life. And she said, You do realize that now you and your teammates are doing that. I get called a benefits scrounger, I get called lazy, I get told that I should be doing that. And suddenly post 2012 everyone decided that every disabled person could be a Paralympic champion.
Oh, if you're not doing sport, you're lazy. Oh, if you're not doing sport, then you need to get a job. And it was like, you know what, we don't look at every everybody man and go, Huh, you could beat you Usain Bolt. So why, why are we suddenly expecting everybody disabled person to have the ability of a Paralympian. It really shocked me actually when she said it and it made me feel quite apologetic. But then it made me realise that yeah, we, we probably need to make people realise that even though channel four calls are super humans, yeah, we're super humans. When we're on the track, we're actually getting around and about. We, we are just the same as every other person in this country with a disability. And this country doesn't really help us with that. Um, and yeah, I mean I wish we had, I wish we had the access that my brother has in Finland cuz it's so much easier to get out about. We hear,
Sue Anstiss:
We hear such positive things about Finland on so many levels, don't we? So what is it, why have they invested so much? Why are things so good there do you think? You
Hannah Cockcroft:
Know what, I think it's, it's just a much newer country, isn't it? It's everything there is is quite new. The technology that they're so forward thinking with it, there are much smaller population, so they have much more money per head to, to make things work. There's so, so many reasons I said it, it's about the attitude of people as well. It's, it's amazing how many, I dunno, buses in London are accessible, but yet I have never yet been allowed to get on a bus in London. There was once, me, and again, Mel Nichols, the girl that I raced with in London 2012, it was post London. We were there for a London 2012 celebration and we went to get on a bus and he went, no, just one wheelchair. And we went It's okay, there's two wheelchairs but also two people in the wheelchairs so we can get on. And he was like, Nope, you're not getting on. So we made a point and we raced him to every bus stop, which is very, it's very me thing to do just to make a point. But, and I beat him to every single one like to point out. But it's that attitude of no, you're a wheelchair. I'm actually, I'm not, I'm a human and I'm in a wheelchair and you have it everywhere, bus taxis, so many people go, I know one wheelchair and he's, he is so hard. Even like I, I live with my fiance, he's also a wheelchair user, so it's so difficult, you know, the first few times when we tried to go out together and and get on on a train even and they were like, Oh no one wheelchair per space. We're like, look, we just wanna sit together…
Sue Anstiss:
Hannah, I've never even thought about that's, I feel awful that I, I've never even considered that.
Hannah Cockcroft:
But you wouldn't, It wouldn't, it wouldn't affect you. And, and I, I totally get that but it is like you're constantly referred to as wheelchair. Well I'm not a wheelchair, I'm a human <laugh>.
Sue Anstiss:
We've also seen you doing more on the TV away from sport. So you were on celebrity bakeoff, strictly come dancing for sport relief and you also had a stint presenting BBC's Countryfile too. And you seem such a natural in front of the camera. So is that something that you'd like to do more of?
Hannah Cockcroft:
Ooo thank you.
Yeah. I love doing things like that and you know, I'm always more nervous doing things like that than I am before I line up for a risk because ultimately, like it's always something different. It's always something I've gotta learn in a lot of the time I'm the first person in a wheelchair to do it. So I was the first wheelchair user on the British Bakeoff. So we had to redesign the set so that I could get around it. myself and and Martin were the first wheelchair users on strictly, so obviously the dancers had to be built around doors and we had to get special wheelchairs to do it. So there's always so many things to think about. But I think the amazing thing about being on there is number one, again, you reach a new audience, a new audience of people who might be set at home thinking there's nothing for me, it really does prove that we can do absolutely anything, but also that we can do anything with the right support. But especially BBC Country File, you know, that was, for me, that was an absolute dream come true. That's like dream job. and I was doing things that I never, ever dreamt that I would get the chance to do. So I hearded Highland Cattle across a beach in the, Outer Hebrides, just hands down the most incredible day of my life. I was a gamekeeper for a day. I was a dairy farmer for a day and they're all jobs that you don't, you don't think of and go, oh, wheelchair, you could do that. But they made it possible. They made it possible for me to be there and to do it. And it wasn't, it absolutely wasn't easy. A lot of them were really hard places to get to and to make it work, but we made it work., and do I love it. I love just getting the opportunity to go out and then just, I, I guess challenging myself in a different way cause actually on paper, all those different things that I've done at the start, I've gone, Oh, I don't, I don't think I can do that. And then my Mum will go, yeah, but you’ll regret it if you don't just give it a go. So I'll give it a go and yeah, almost every time it works. So it's fine. <laugh>
Sue Anstiss:
And hard to believe that Paris 2024 is just two years away now, like less than that moving forward, isn't it? but I just wonder, do you, do you ever think about retirement beyond that or are you just so focused on keep training for next year and competing?
Hannah Cockcroft:
I, I obviously know that retirement's on the horizon, so I do think about it. I have no idea what I wanna do when I retire though. And people do keep asking me like, Oh, you must be retiring soon. And the thing is like for a long time I thought Tokyo would be my last three seems like a good amount. Three Paralympic games. A lot of people seem to do that and actually I got there and I was like, I'm not done. I'm not, I'm not done. So I refused to kind of put a stamp on it and say, Oh, Paris will be my last, or I'd love to, I'd love to get to LA. I think it'll be a push, but you might see me there. And that's the thing, like as long as I'm enjoying it, I'll keep doing it. but the, yeah, there's always one eye on the future.
There's always one eye on what happens when all this ends because it is going to end, there's gonna be an end to this unfortunately. It's kind of scary, you know, I've been doing this since I was 15. I've been on British Athletics UK sport funding since I was 16. I, I've ultimately never had a real job and the thought of a real job really, really terrifies me because I'll be like, I'll be like an intern. I'll have no idea. I'll have no experience, I'll have nothing. So, I need to do this for as long as possible <laugh> and I'll worry about that. But TV is a dream. I'd love to go into that. I've done my, I did my coaching exams, last year leading into this year. So I'm, I'm a registered coach now, so that's always an option. And I think just the whole time I'm competing, I'm trying to build up the options that I can then move into because I don't think I'll ever stick to one thing. I like to try everything and, and absolutely anything <laugh>
Sue Anstiss:
How amazing is Hannah? I can't wait to hear all she goes on to achieve.
Head over to Fearlesswomen.co.uk to find out more about all of the Game Changers I've spoken to for the podcast.
Other incredible para athletes I've had the privilege to talk to includes Sarah's Storey, Tanni Grey Thompson, Sophie Carrigill, Ann Wafula Strike, Pippa Britain, and Lauren Steadman
As well as listening to all the podcasts on the website, you can also find out more about the collective, a free community network for all women working in sport. You can also sign up for the Fearless Women Newsletter, which highlights the developments in women's sport, and there's more about my book Game On: The Unstoppable Rise of women's Sport.
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