Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.
Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media
A Fearless Women production
Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.
Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media
A Fearless Women production
Tammy Parlour: Why female athletes make powerful role models
Sue Anstiss:
Hello, and welcome to The Game Changers. I'm Sue Anstiss and this is the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazers in women's sport, who are quite literally knocking down the barriers to challenge the status quo for women and girls across society.
A massive thank you to our partners, Sport England, who are kindly supporting The Game Changers through a National Lottery award. My guest today is Tammy Parlour, the co-founder and CEO of The Women's Sport Trust. Tammy works with leaders across sport, media and business, to understand how to practically raise visibility, increase, impact, and create a stronger women's sport ecosystem. Tammy is a master in the Korean martial art of Hapkido having practiced for 40 years. She set up her own hapkido and meditation school in the early nineties and still coaches regularly. Tammy holds an MSC in strength and conditioning and has undertaken post-graduate study into applied sports psychology. Along with her role leading the Women's Sport Trust, Tammy also volunteers as a board director for AFC Wimbledon Ladies and in 2019, Tammy was awarded an MBE in the new year's honors for her services to gender equality in sport.
So Tammy, the Women's Sport Trust is celebrating its 10th anniversary this year and I'm incredibly proud to have been a trustee with you, throughout that time. But I wonder if that's something you ever imagined when you first thought about creating the charity back in 2012?
Tammy Parlour:
Sue I can't believe it's been a decade. I really can't. It's yeah, it's gone so fast! No, I don’t know what I expected back in 2012, it was at the time, just wanted to stay involved in sport and to, to make a difference, to give something back and it was just very focused on the moment. I don't think I ever envisaged what WST has become.
Sue Anstiss:
And you, you talk about that ‘focusing on the moment’. So what was that moment? What kind of drove you to create it in the first place?
Tammy Parlour
Oh my gosh, I totally inspired by London 2012. And, uh, you know, you mentioned that I've, in the intro that I've been doing martial arts for 40 years, sport in that way has been a massive part of my life. And I just kept my head down and sort of did my thing in my sport. And London 2012 came along and it totally blindsided me. I realised that I had not been privy to women's sport, even as a female athlete. I hadn't seen, um, other female athletes like me and, and everywhere there were strong athletic, tall women, um, and being a sports woman felt more accepted in society. And I found myself standing taller. I found my self worth sort of increasing. And I suddenly realised that I hadn't been seeing these things. And once you, you, you realise the absence, you can't, you can't sort of unsee that anymore.
Tammy Parlour:
And at the same time, there are all these, stories around female athletes struggling financially. And there was one story in particular of someone having a flat tyre and, you know, didn't have the money to, to, to get in the tyre fixed. And I thought, well, I've got a 10 and if I can find 10 other people, then we've got a hundred quid and, and we can buy her a new tyre! That was the sort of motivation behind it recognizing that it had changed me inside, it had motivated me. It, it had made me think, feel, more confident and, and, and have a greater self worth as a sports woman, the absence, and then the realizing that I could do something practical to stay involved and to help. So WST originally started as you know as a grant giving body designed to help sports women in whatever way they needed, it's changed a lot since then.
Sue Anstiss:
We could have been all replacing tyres and Kwik-Fitting if that had been the case …
Tammy Parlour:
Absolutely!
Sue Anstiss:
A whole different path! I wonder what was the initial response like from the industry at the time? And again, it's almost like casting your mind back 10 years, but yes. Um, as you kind of came out into that space,
Tammy Parlour:
Yeah. It was so different to what it is now. Women's sport was very much seen as this…well it wasn't seen and it was seen as something worthy and that was a big strap line that we had sort of internally back then was trying to move from worthy to irresistible. And you know, it was seen as ‘the right thing to do’, but there wasn't really much focus on it at all. So it was very easy to get to incredible leaders within sport and amazing athletes. The first, people that we spoke to were Tanni Grey-Thompson, And Liz Nichol, who was then the CEO of UK Sport These people that, you know, would be much harder to get to in touch with now.
And I, I look back at our first patron, Anna Watkins. I remember being in a car park, away for the weekend and Anna had written a… some sort of little blurb within, I think it was the, the Sunday Times. And just on a whim sort of tweeted her and said, seen your thing in, the Sunday Times, setting up a charity, would you meet for coffee? And she said, yes! And it was sort of, you know, that sort of stuff I don't think would happen these days. It was just a, I suppose, right time, right place. People had an appetite for it because of London 2012 and then I think when we came and we started to look at things a bit differently yeah, and it move from there,
Sue Anstiss:
It’s flourished from there. I'm gonna come back to talk more about the Women’s Sport Trust, but I'd like to explore a little bit of your own sporting backgrounds. We kind of alluded to it in the introduction, but can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Tammy Parlour:
Oh Okay. So I've done one of the martial arts, a martial art called, Hapkido for 40 years now. I always say martial art rather Hapikido, because no one’s ever heard of Hapkido!
Sue Anstiss:
We can learn about it now!
Tammy Parlour:
You can learn, absolutely! It's a Korean martial art, and that is more about self-defense and personal development rather than. So it doesn't have tournaments, it doesn't have competitions within it. It has the kicks of the punches that you would find in Taekwondo, karate, but also pressure point joint manipulation, weapon techniques, free fighting, meditation, t's got this sort of the whole package. I started when I was gosh, 11, 12, 13, sort of round about that kind of age, and we’d moved to, America, so I am British, but my family relocated to the states when I was 11 and, and I just woke up one day and decided I wanted a do karate. I dunno where that came from. I really don't, you know, this was pre-Karate Kid and all that sort of stuff. So I have no idea why I suddenly decided that I wanted to do it. At that time there was a Korean grand master who was … had a school that was about a 20 minute drive from where we lived went to meet him and signed up that day and, and have been his student ever since. He's a, he was the son of a Buddhist monk, so his teaching as well, as well as being sort of the physical side was very much around Buddhism Taoism, so for me, it stimulated both that, um, physical side and, you know, so interesting and so complete the system, but it also had that sort of intellectual and philosophical side as well, so it sort of, it hit my being at so many different levels and then I just kept going. I suppose I never realised that I had a choice to stop at any point, because there were points that I through the past 40 years that I definitely, you know, battled with motivation or didn't want to do it or things, but I never I never gave myself an option to stop. I just kept doing it and I'm really pleased I did. 40 years later, I now have a, a school that I teach at still regularly in London and, yeah, it’s good stuff.
Sue Anstiss:
And you said it's not, it wasn't competitive in terms of tournaments, but I guess in terms of that qualification and how you progress, so where, where are you now on that journey?
Tammy Parlour:
Well, so yes, it's not competitive against others, so we don't sort of go into the ring and beat each other up, but, there are standards and things that you meet along the way. So I am Master level of, Hapkido, a fifth degree black belt and, …. yeah, she says not knowing what else to say!
Sue Anstiss:
No, I just wanted to pull that out of you!
Tammy Parlour:
Ok, ok, if I was being, if I was being less humble, but yes, there aren’t many women of my level …in the world really…so…
Sue Anstiss:
There you go. I pulled it out of you Tammy, I'm trying to get you to… I think I met you, you might have been fourth, at the fourth level when I met you, so you’ve progressed even in that time.
Tammy Parlour:
The traditional ones, they do take a long time to sort of progress So you're talking decades, when you get to a particular level, there are decades in between one level of black belt to another level of black belt, So, yeah.
Sue Anstiss:
Wow. You mentioned in terms of not really having seen or been as aware that gender disparity across sport perhaps until 2012. So in terms of Hapkido, are women very much seen as equals, was there gender balance within that martial art?
Tammy Parlour:
I was totally oblivious to it growing up. I really was. If I look back, I would say, I was very regularly the only, female in classes or sessions and things. There was one other woman who I occasionally saw who was the sister of one of the high black belts, but apart from that, it was me and I was also probably the youngest. I was training with men who were sort of at least 15, 20 years older than me and I just, I was oblivious.
Tammy Parlour:
I would say that, fighting arts tend to attract more men definitely and within my school, I've got more men than women but as a female instructor, I think I naturally do, attract more women in. Um, so my split is probably, 65% men, I'd say I would guess that that's a high level of women within my school as opposed to others.
And, and how much of that mental strength that you found within Hapkido, you talked about the mental side of it, led you to be interested in sports psychology and, and the mind generally?
Tammy Parlour:
From a very young age, alI said I wanted to do was teach, I wanted to become a Hapkido Master and teach martial arts. That was my dream. I had no idea how that, that would ever pan out, you know, talking at about age 15 that's what I wanted to do. So I had this, and I have a strong drive for learning as well. So I just wanted to keep learning about how to, how the body worked, how the mind worked, how I could teach better. And that's really what, um, pushed me to do the masters and strength and conditioning as well, was I had been trained for so long by a Korean Grand Master who was big on the whole, Eastern psychology and Eastern philosophy and all that sort of stuff. And I thought, I need to learn from the Western side as well
So, and I wanted to understand more about body mechanics and physiology and, and that sort of thing. And the purpose behind that was not to become a strength and conditioning coach. It was to understand things better to become a better martial arts instructor.
Sue Anstiss:
And, and you say having that drive from age 15, has it met your expectations? Have you loved teaching as much as you thought you would do?
Tammy Parlour:
Oh my gosh, I, yes! Teaching Hapkido is just wonderful seeing people's growing confidence, seeing people learn, seeing, people try things that they're nervous about, but desperately want to do is just the most amazing thing. Being part of someone's journey to fulfill their potential. Gosh, I dunno whether that sounds really dodgy, but it's like, I really do…. just, I suppose for me, life is about we all, we are all incredible human beings, but there are so many barriers that stop us from actually being as incredible as we could be. And I see my role as a Hapkido Master, or martial arts instructor is to enable people to be the best version of themselves. So that's a privilege to be part of that. So yeah, it's definitely a wonderful thing.
Sue Anstiss:
And do you ever see a point when hapkido won't be a part of your life?
Tammy Parlour:
Oh, dear. I don't know. I don't know. I, a few years ago I had a hip replacement, which means I can't do all the physical things that I once was able to. I can do a, still do an awful lot, but I can't kick at the same height or, or my jumping and spinning kicks and things aren't as, as good as, as, as they once were. The pandemic has hit, most grassroots, clubs, very hard and you know, when I remember when meeting you, back in 2012 Sue, I had about a hundred, a hundred sort of members and students sort of in the school.
As I started WST and my focus went a little bit elsewhere. It reduced down and, and now through the pandemic as well, it's a much smaller club than ever was. And I wondered whether, you know, is this the time? Is the, am I getting a sign that I need to stop? But then I go to the classes and the club is just such a wonderful, welcoming community. And I just, I always come away feeling so, so much better, so much more balanced and it’s just a wonderful thing to be part of a sports community.
Sue Anstiss:
I guess coming out of COVID, now more than ever that community and that feel. people valuing it and wanting to feel part of something.
Tammy Parlour:
Yeah. Very much so. Very much, so.
I’d like to chat a little bit more about your career and you worked for the Prince’s trust before you started the Women's Sport Trust. So can you tell me a little bit about your role there?
Tammy Parlour:
Gosh, Prince’s Trust. That's a, that's a long time ago. I worked for them for about eight years and I suppose I would say the Prince’s Trust was my first proper job. I started off as a team leader, which was running programs, three month programs for young people between the age of 16 and 25. We recruited a whole diverse team, so about 15 young people and the program involved doing community projects together, where they would have to the bank bar and steal, the, all the equipment and things to get to, I don't know, build a play area or whatever the community needed. They did placements. We volunteered for at a holiday home for people with disabilities. We, did all sorts of things and that was all about, helping people fulfill their potential. Helping young people sort of understand their worth and help move them forward within their, their life. Really. Um, I worked for as a team leader in Lincoln for about four years, um, doing that. And then I became a, uh, moved to their British trust training team and became one of the national trainers training people to do the roles that I have been doing.
Sue Anstiss:
Lovely. Clearly as we've alluded to the women's sport trust has really evolved over the past decade and I'd like to explore how the ambitions and the activity have changed to suit the needs of the sector. So you did mention this briefly before, but what were the key issues that you saw in sport back in 2012, it's hard to think it's a, you know, 10 years ago, but things have changed so much haven't they?
Tammy Parlour:
Yes, very much so. So I said that we started off as a grant giving body, but it became clear very early on that, that actually giving that a hundred pounds to an athlete for the, to buy a new tire or whatever wouldn't really change anything sort of within the system. So the more we talk to people, the more we realized that actually, we needed a different approach. And you were there too Sue, we talked amongst the board about sort of where our strengths and weaknesses were, where the gaps were within the landscape and our focus was more, and our interest was more around three sort of pillars: role models, so we started to focus on elite athlete. Media, media coverage, and then also the money side, funding landscape. And a lot at the start was about trying to pull all the people together from those three different areas. Because when we talked to people, everyone seemed to be pointing the finger at each other the sport’s saying, well, people aren’t investing in it enough. Investors saying, well, there's not enough media coverage, media coverage saying, well, no, one's, you know, everybody was pointing at each other. And there was this belief that women's sport was at this sort of low kind of level as well. So we started to do things that move people, that they're thinking from worthy to a resistive. And we started pulling everybody in the room together. So we would, we would get all these different groups together, stimulate them, ask them to look at things a little differently put across a more irresistible, picture of women's sport and then push them back out in the real world again, and hope sort of that change kind of happened. And initially we started doing a lot around, awards. So we ran something called the Be A Game Changer awards for about four years, which was all about trying to celebrate what was happening out there, but not just celebrate it, also use those events as a tool in order to, to stimulate, stimulate different sectors and to get people to think about women's sport differently. So we did that for about four years, by the end of four years, we recognized that it wasn't having the same effect that it did at the start cuz the, the whole landscape had started to develop. other awards were popping up and we're a tiny little organization and we weren’t getting the same impact that we were previously.:
So we did something quite controversial and that is with, we decided to stop them and there were a lot of people that thought we were crazy because when you thought about what the Women's Sport Trust was, people would say, oh, they do the awards, I mean, that's what we were known for. And suddenly we were stopping this thing that we were known for, but if it's not hitting what you're trying to change, then what's the point of doing it, then it just becomes an ego exercise. So we stopped doing the awards and we started focusing more on the athletes and the Unlocked program, I'm sure you’ll want to touch on in a little bit. And that's really been our sort of, the way we've developed as an organization, we've got a bit of a kind of rebel spirit about us. We look at things sideways. We, we question traditional thinking and we change. We adapt with the times, um, and we tend to try and understand what's needed a little, a bit ahead and then shift our focus. And then when people, other people are starting to pay attention to that, then shift our focus forward. So we're always trying to push the industry, forward a little bit
Sue Anstiss:
Talking to you, reminds me why I love the Women's Sport Trust, it's fantastic. We did talk of the Women's Sport Trust, as being the provocative glue of the sport sector, but what's would you say has been some of the most challenging elements of, of driving that change as you look back?
Tammy Parlour:
Oh my gosh. I think the whole thing is challenging. You know, but that's the thing when you decide gosh, I want to set a charity even just, you know, charity status took a couple of goes, you know, you go back to , made so many errors along the way, but it's all, again, going back to, um, fit with my martial arts, never had a, never gave myself a choice of whether something and could work or not, you just keep at it don't you? So what would've been the biggest challenge or what hasn't been a challenge, Sue? I mean, everything from always trying to, to understand what the next thing is to focus on and to really sort of hone down strategy to funding. Funding is a massive thing, both within women's sport, but also for us in the organisation as well. I think a lot of people… I think were hugely valued within the industry, but who's then willing to put their hand in their pocket to pay for that is a different thing. So raising money has been a massive challenge. Sport England fund us currently, and so grateful for, for their amazing support and belief in us as an organisation. And I think without their support, we definitely wouldn't be where we are today.
Sue Anstiss:
And in terms of the approach to the Women's Sport Trust, how do you personally maintain that balance of, of calling people out and get also keeping people on board, ‘cause that is a tricky path to tread sometimes isn't it?
Tammy Parlour:
Yeah, absolutely. We've always been focused on the positive, I suppose, as an organization, we tend to monitor what's happening, use that to influence the system, educate the system and support people. We tend to focus on opportunities that are being missed rather than saying, you know, if someone berates you, do you really want to change? I don't think so. Nobody wants to be told how awful they're doing, but if someone says to me, oh my gosh, you're missing this amazing opportunity then I think, oh gosh, that sounds interesting. You know, so that's really the approach that we've been taking. I have a strong belief that actually people want to do the right thing and people want to do a really good job but sometimes we don't necessarily know how to do the thing we want to do. How can we give more money if we don't have more money? Well, let's talk about how we can get more money and how you redo your budgets or you know, all that sort of stuff. So it's trying to show there's an opportunity being missed and also help people make the changes they need in order to do what we know they want to do.
Sue Anstiss:
I'm nodding, I'm vigorously nodding here. It's a podcast, but I'm nodding.
and can I talk more specifically about some of the work that you've done? So the Ambition report, can you talk to me a little bit about that and how the industry was involved in its creation too?
Tammy Parlour:
Yeah, so we, the ambition report came out of, the pandemic really. So we'd gone… think, gosh, how many years ago was that? I dunno …
Sue Anstiss:
Feels like such a long time ago!
Tammy Parlour:
Time ago. I dunno. It was a decade ago or whether it was yesterday, time has just totally distorted itself, hasn't it? So the pandemic hit and there was loads of talk around, women's sport going to the dark ages and really didn't like how it was being reported in that way. As an organisation that likes to see opportunity, it was sort of totally you're creating this image that, you know, really don't believe in. So recognised that we needed to do something. What we ended up doing was pulling together the whole sort of sporting ecosystem, really to come together to discuss what their ambitions were around women's sport, and what the barriers were and what actions they thought needed to be taken. So I think it was, was about some, about 40 or 50 leaders across the industry from, sport funders, DCMS, UK Sports, Sport England, so forth , to rights holders, NGBs, athletes, digital platforms, broadcasters, all sorts, all of that sort of leadership level,pulled them together in each, within sort of their independent groups to get them really, to talk about their ambitions and barriers and so forth and then all of that was put into a summarized paper with key points that was then given back to everybody to take in. And then we brought them all by together, again, to react to what they've read. And then out of that, then more notes were drawn up out of the reactions and from that the Ambition report was created, which really was around, almost a blueprint for the industry. And no matter where you were in the industry in order to progress women's sport, this is what women's sport, the leadership of the sport, the eco system believes need to happen. And within those were came out of it with things like the need for data, the growth of visibility, um, professionalising, the area, collaboration. And one of the key things that came out was the need to diversify the industry that, um, the industry is too white and male, and that needs to change and a lot of, um, the, a lot of things will roll off in the back of that. So I believe there are, there are eight key points, and it's a fantastic insight into what the, the sports leadership believes, where they want to go and areas to focus on, when others are writing strategy.
Sue Anstiss:
And what impact have you seen from the ambition report?
Tammy Parlour:
Initially it got amazing, feedback from, and, and global feedback from all sorts of places from the gender equality units, at Olympic committees to, UN to, you know, all sorts across. I think, understanding impact or tracking impact is, is, is rather a challenging thing. I know it's been used to influence programs that educational type organizations are putting out. I know, it's been used by a few NGBs as far as, creating strategies and so forth. Um, I need to get better at some about detailing impact and things, and I think that's something that is challenging for us as an organisation anyway, when you are focused on trying to change, people's thinking, to stimulate, to be a catalyst for people, change making decisions and all that sort of stuff. It's, it's difficult to sort of, to actually follow that impact from a conversation here, you know, in your heart that it made whatever impact, but actually documenting that and so forth. It's a challenging thing.
Sue Anstiss:
Oh, I completely agree. And actually looking back at it, like reminding myself of those key points, and you can see the shift that's happening in the industry, but it is hard to know that it was that one, single catalyst that cause it to happen. It feeds into the other….
Tammy Parlour:
I don't think ever, ever is, isn't it? Yeah. And I'm not somebody who likes to claim things that, you know…
Sue Anstiss:
We've seen that already! Too humble! We've seen that, we talk about visibility and importance of visibility. So just to move on and there's lots, I know that the Women's Sport T rust has, has done and achieved, but the Closing The visibility Gap research and that project, again, what came out from that and, and how , what's available to the industry.
Tammy Parlour:
We've done all sorts around visibility. Visibility, we've got this strap line now that we want to make women's sport, visible, viable, and unstoppable. we're doing a lot of monitoring work around, um, how female athletes and women's sport are being made visible. The Closing The Visibility Gap also is, is very much it provides toolkits for the industry. Um, whether you're a rights holder, a brand and athlete, how you can well, it gives an argument for creating more visibility, commercial argument, and then also the steps you need to take in order to, to improve the visibility, no matter which sort of part of the ecosystem, you are in. Since that time, we've also for the past year, been monitoring, visibility, particularly around broadcast coverage, digital coverage, some newspaper coverage and so forth, because we like to use that data as a catalyst to stimulate the industry.
So on the back of that, we've been pulling together think tanks with media decision makers, and also running public webinars all about trying to stimulate people's thinking, and pushing them to understand there is opportunity being missed. And at the moment, I think a big thing is understanding habit, understanding how we can, how we can understand women's sport audience more and how we can generate more habit. And we're doing a lot of deep diving into the data at the moment to see what nuggets we can, uh, we can pull out in order to help, help answers of those sorts of questions.
Sue Anstiss:
I'd like to talk a little bit around the way in which female athletes are shown visually in the media too. And I know, okay. I know we've done some work with Getty in the past, obviously. I know, uh, but it'd be interesting to know about that. And, and I guess your thoughts on that visual portrayal of female athletes,
Tammy Parlour:
I think it's definitely changed from, you know, over the past 10 years, cause one thing that I was struck by as a female sports person was when London 2012 came on board, oh my gosh, there are people like me out there. I've been so used to the image of a woman being, sort of five foot, five skinny, not athletic, tall, strong, powerful, you know, those sorts of words. And I think there is a different image being, shown now. There still needs to be more diversity around, but, and that's really one thing that our Unlocked campaign, which is about bringing together female athletes to sort of supercharge their influence. A lot of it was, was about us trying to get beyond the usual voices that are out there, being seen, being heard. So our Unlocked campaign is, a way in which trying to help, the media, the industry, to reflect society better by hunting out, searching out amazing female athletes from a whole range of sports, a whole sort of a really diverse and inclusive group, and getting them to be seen and heard more..
Sue Anstiss:
And can I move on to the Unlocked, campaign then? So in terms of the practicalities of, of how it works, what has it been operationally?
Tammy Parlour:
So Unlocked pulls together, 30 to 40 female athletes, all who are operating at a incredible level. So we're talking world champions, Olympians, so that's sort of very elite level, it brings together this diverse group and we, we basically them the space to think about what they care about. I'm often asked, you know, what are you hoping to achieve out of Unlocked? And one of the key things is, is not to answer that question because I, the ambitions that they, they have of the successes that we've got out the program, I could never have imagined, you know, but if you give people the space to actually think about what their dreams are, think about what their ambitions are, what do you give a damn about ‘why’?
And then help them make the steps towards that ambition. Often what's achieved goes way beyond you could ever imagine. So the unlocked group pull, pulls together, this amazing group of women and they're having very candid conversations about struggles and we're also, we've got a set, almost program we're putting them through to stimulate the, their thinking on things. We start to get an idea about who they are and what they need, and we start to run webinars with them, for whatever it is they need, be that, social media training, understanding the landscape, understanding about racism and sport, you know, whatever it is that's, that's appropriate.
Tammy Parlour:
And we get that delivered by, leaders within the industry. and then we match them with, we call them activators, but sort of like a mentoring relationship. So we match them with, industry leaders that will open doors to them. Cause often one thing that holds people back from getting ahead is who you know, and we have an incredible black book. So we get this amazing group of people. We open our black book to the them and we sit back and we see what happens and, um, yes, incredible story. We've in a it's with such, a high percentage of athletes from athlete alumni now on sporting boards. So if we're talking about trying to change the industry, you know, changed the face of the industry , Unlocked is definitely doing that. We had a big, um, a lot of athletes in this past cohort that, had an entrepreneurial edge to them. So started setting up organisations around, policy change around, supporting athletes in mental health, you know, all these sorts of organisations. Others that want to, get ahead in the media and, you know, have been, commentators for the Paralympics or the, the Olympics or, and moving sort of in that way. So lots of, lots of different things happening.
I think the success of Unlocked is about relationships, building relationships with them. Them as a group, then with WST, then with their activators or mentors as well. You know, anyone could run Hangouts or webinars. But creating a relationship, , that really matters, that is really about trying to enable someone to fulfill their potential? That's where the magic happens.
Sue Anstiss:
Yeah. Connected, isn't it?, the cross-sport connections. And I know that the, the athletes, taking part in their third year are about to be announced. And I was lucky to get a sneak peek of the names this morning. And I am again, just blown away by the diverse range of sports women and was taking part. So
I would be remiss not to say, I guess if people wanna get involved in terms of being an activator, they can come to the Women's Sports Trust website and reach out. But also in terms of sponsors and partners and others from a funding perspective, as you mentioned earlier, I'm doing it on your behalf here, but to say, do, come and get in touch and have a conversation because you know, it's an amazing program and, and it could be even more amazing with additional funding.
Tammy Parlour:
Absolutely. There is so much opportunity with this athlete group to do more. And I I'd love to work with a partner to get more impact both for them and for us.
Equal prize money is clearly getting lots of media attention right now and you only have to look back at what Billy Jean King did for tennis to see the impact it can have for the long term health and gender parity in sport. So I wonder how important you think prize money can be in driving change for women's sport?
Tammy Parlour:
I think, increasing prize money is incredibly important. Prize money is, is, is - demonstrates value. And we want to, enable the sports ecosystem to actively demonstrate that it values women and girls, and prize money is one way that it does that. whether we're at the right time to be having, greater prize pots and things is a totally different question. We've got to make sure that the, what we are creating is sustainable as far as, competitive advantage and so forth, and that the, the systems that are being created can also have enough, funding and so forth and professional - professionalism and so forth to support that. So pay and, uh, prize money is one part of a, of a bigger puzzle. and I think we've got to make sure that all those different things are being, are in balance. but do I hope that some prize money at some stage is going to be, bigger and, and equal and so forth? Absolutely. Because that demonstrates value. Um, but whether we're at the right time in every sport is a different question.
Sue Anstiss:
how can we accelerate change, I guess, as we, as the Women's Sport Trust, but also we more broadly as, as fans of women's sport?
Tammy Parlour:
Go! watch it, celebrate it, read about it and then I suppose, more broadly in whatever sphere you are in, notice if it's absent. If you are in a meeting, if you are, putting a panel together, if you are doing anything at all, just notice if there are no women there or not, notice if everybody in the room is white or not, and start pointing it out, What can we do? How can we change? Not pointing it out in a, you know, berating sort of way, cause I don't think that changes… but yeah, notice what's happening.
Sue Anstiss:
Thanks so much for Tammy for joining me on The Game Changers, I'm incredibly proud to be a trustee for the Women's Sport Trust and I know that with her at the helm, the charity will continue to drive change across the sector in the future.
Do visit fearlesswomen.co.uk, where you can find out more about all of my incredible guests from this and the previous series. You can listen to all the podcasts on the website and find out about the Women's Sport Collective, a free network for all women working in sport. You can sign up for Changing the Game, our weekly newsletter that highlights the developments in women's sport and there's more about my book Game On! The Unstoppable Rise of Women's Sport
Thanks once again, to Sport England for backing the Game Changers through the National Lottery and to Sam Walker, who does a great job as our executive producer, along with Rory Auskerry on sound production. Finally, thank you to my brilliant colleague, Kate Hannon who does much behind the scenes to make the podcast happen.
Do come and say hello on social media where you'll find me on Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook @SueAnstiss. The Game Changers, fearless women in sport.